Purpose for Courage and Stupidity in career mode

[Roastduck]

So, we got to talking in the KSP stream chat tonight, and we came up with some decent ideas to make kerbal attributes mean something. My suggestion would require two features that would probably be major underatkings, but I don't know about game programming. First, a more robust Kerbal AI system. Second, a role system that extends into ground crew and mission control.

Courage can interact with a system whereby kerbals can actually refuse to do some things. Need to EVA in atmo to manually deploy a parachute? Better hope his courage is off the charts!

Stupidity can apply a modifier to Science gathered from experiments and reports.

But these attributes can combine in some interesting ways. For example, a low courage, but low stupidity kerbal would make a great mission controller. High courage, medium stupidity would make great pilots

Medium courage, low stupidity would make great scientists. Medium-medium would be payload specialists

Also, these attributes could be malleable. More time spent doing things EVA or in high-G situations could raise courage. More science done could lower stupidity. On the other hand, staying idle for long periods of time could have an adverse effect on both stats. This would add a new element to the game other than launching things and time warping to maneuver nodes and SOI changes.

Thoughts?

[MKI]

Im 100% squad will touch back on kerbal stats. Since there is a whole building for them, it only makes sense there will be more to hireing then there is now. For now the stats are just for their reactions.

I feel the current stats shouldn't hinder gameplay in any way. There really needs to be more stats in general to create more of a selection process with kerbals. There also needs to be a reason to hire each kerbal for a certain task/ mission. Just as people are sent on missions for their speciality Kerbals should have a similar specialty. But this sort of stuff isn't even close to being implimented nor is it mandatory at all.

It would add another element building missions, especially in the goal oriented career mode that fits with the kerbal play style of building blocks and parts for the job all coming together.

[LethalDose]

First off, yes, please make kerbals' stats matter. I would love to see kerbals assigned "jobs", like scientist, pilot, etc., and their performance of said jobs is dependent on their stats.

Second, I really hope the stats in place now are just place-holders and get trashed for something less... well... stupid.

Finally, MKI raised an interesting point with career mode. It would be interesting to see specific traits required for some missions/contracts, e.g. you need tech-savvy kerbal involved in a mission to test a part.

[Seshins]

I think fleshing out the individual Kerbals would improve gameplay immensley. Selecting the right Kerbal for specific science missions would add something a bit extra to collecting Science.

Maybe even some form of training - whereby for the long duration missions out to Duna and beyond, kerbals would need to spend a minimum of 6 weeks within Kerbins SOI, accumulated over two flights, before being able to progress out into the wider Solar System. In sandbox this would obviously be irelevant. Im loatjhe of any "leveling" type system for each Kerbal, think of it more as seasoning....or a limited form of experiencce gain fior that Kerbal.

[Pulstar]

I definitely agree with this and you are not alone in thinking that Kerbal stats should be fleshed out and matter.

If it was up to me I would either make "personality" or "character" traits like stupidity and courage serve as a hard (or semi-hard, with limited room for improvement via experience) limitation to how far a Kerbal could advance in certain proper skills, like say piloting, geology, astrophysics or exploration. The idea is that a Kerbals couldn't be jack of all trades, but they would have a primary role they're best at, with mediocre backup skills to do if you unfortunately lost the primary say science guy due to running out of EVA fuel while 200 meters above Duna's surface.

[Vindelle_Sunveam]

I agree with OP. Kerbal stats should matter.

Do you think "PR specialists" could be fun to have ? Like Col. Chris Kerman bringing you lots of REP but almost no science if you put him in a MPL in LKO ?

[sumghai]

The current Kerbal stats of Courage and Stupid already do have a use in-game - it controls the facial expressions on each Kerbal.

Higher levels of courage make Kerbals smile more, while lower levels make them frown or panic; Higher levels of Stupidity desensitizes them to external events live launches, explosions and crashes, while lower levels makes them more sensitive.

I'm sure SQUAD will look into expanding these attributes eventually, but it's a bit churlish to declare their current implementation as "useless" or "stupid".

[Pulstar]

I agree with OP. Kerbal stats should matter.

Do you think "PR specialists" could be fun to have ? Like Col. Chris Kerman bringing you lots of REP but almost no science if you put him in a MPL in LKO ?

Hero of Kerbalnautics would be a better moniker. Maybe in addition to rank there could be a small "fame" stat for kerbals? Basically the function of how much prestige/reputation he helped you get. They could give you a slight or moderate rep bonus for all missions they do, but if you lose them the reputation hit should be quite huge due to public outrage over the loss of a living legend.

[Twreed87]

I have a feeling that Kerbal stats will be the next focus for updates. They've been working on fleshing out career mode for quite a while, and they've said they're sticking with that. We got the basic workings of Science, now Budgets and Contracts are almost here, what's next is Personnel.

I'm excited to finally have my Kerbals mean something. Instead of just random names and a couple bars that mean basically nothing, I want to recruit and train specific astronauts. I want the game to keep track of their individual accomplishments, and have different Kerbals capable of different things. I'm excited to see what they work out.

[Seshins]

I'm sure SQUAD will look into expanding these attributes eventually, but it's a bit churlish to declare their current implementation as "useless" or "stupid".

I certainly didnt refer or allude to the Stats = Expressions as useless or stupid, but as something that seems to "define" each kerbal, there is no gameplay mechanic or feature that is changed or affected by these stats - so in a sense they are actually useless until the feature is fleshed out into something more directly affecting gameplay.

[Roastduck]

The current Kerbal stats of Courage and Stupid already do have a use in-game - it controls the facial expressions on each Kerbal.

Higher levels of courage make Kerbals smile more, while lower levels make them frown or panic; Higher levels of Stupidity desensitizes them to external events live launches, explosions and crashes, while lower levels makes them more sensitive.

I'm sure SQUAD will look into expanding these attributes eventually, but it's a bit churlish to declare their current implementation as "useless" or "stupid".

It's a need little bit of flavor, but the only time it really has an effect is when I'm not paying attention to their faces. I'm busy launching or re-entering, and I only ever really look at the crew area of the UI when I'm trying to find the kerbals getting sent home from my station.

There is so much more room for depth with the attributes, and that's all my post is about

[Darkstar616]

I definitely welcome all the crew stat stuff and with it should come the appropriate buildings parts, life support doesn't necessarily always mean food, water and oxygen since that kind of stuff is a no-brainer for astronauts. Exercise, social interaction and skill building is more to the center of supporting astronaut life. Food, water and oxygen however should be the most important thing for colonies (if that will ever be implemented).

[Tarmenius]

I remember a while back, when the intended scope of KSP was a tycoon-style space agency game, that HarvestR wanted Kerbals to be capable of completing various tasks (including in-flight maneuvers) and that their degree of success would be influenced by their stats. But that was around two years ago and I haven't heard anything about it more recently, so that all may have changed as KSP has grown and evolved quite a bit since then.

I'd love to see the tycoon game he had in mind, and the Space Center's building tiles suggest that it may still be alive, but only time will tell for sure.

[CalfEggs]

I like the idea of not only stats, but skills. Like what if you had ones that had "engineering" skills, and only they could repair things? And maybe other skills like piloting which would increase a ship's reaction time to turning and stuff. Then maybe you could appoint mission commanders and their skills could rub off on other kerbals. I dunno, just an idea.

[Deathsoul097]

First off, yes, please make kerbals' stats matter. I would love to see kerbals assigned "jobs", like scientist, pilot, etc., and their performance of said jobs is dependent on their stats.

Second, I really hope the stats in place now are just place-holders and get trashed for something less... well... stupid.

Finally, MKI raised an interesting point with career mode. It would be interesting to see specific traits required for some missions/contracts, e.g. you need tech-savvy kerbal involved in a mission to test a part.

I disagree wholeheartedly with the emboldend statement above. No, but seriously, Courage and Stupidity are perfect for the game IMHO. They fit right in, just as the game fits right in between a full on simulator and HurDehurrDehurr, Moar BOOSTAHS!! The rest I agree with though. Kerbals need a reason to have Stats, and having them affect the science gain from missions would be perfect. I hope to get to a point where we hav to hire the ground crew who run unmanned missions, and have to assign people to them, and the stats of the kerbals assigned woul affect your control (Such as only being able to do anything through the manouvre nodes or actually having full control) and science gain, with smarter kerbals giving bonuses all around on unmanned missions, while having a use for muchless courageous kerbals who may not be useful in an actual mission in space.

[LethalDose]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the emboldend statement above. No, but seriously, Courage and Stupidity are perfect for the game IMHO. They fit right in, just as the game fits right in between a full on simulator and HurDehurrDehurr, Moar BOOSTAHS!! The rest I agree with though. Kerbals need a reason to have Stats, and having them affect the science gain from missions would be perfect. I hope to get to a point where we hav to hire the ground crew who run unmanned missions, and have to assign people to them, and the stats of the kerbals assigned woul affect your control (Such as only being able to do anything through the manouvre nodes or actually having full control) and science gain, with smarter kerbals giving bonuses all around on unmanned missions, while having a use for muchless courageous kerbals who may not be useful in an actual mission in space.

I just... really dislike the "dey r dum, lol" point of view. They're supposed to be developing an educational side to this game, and I'd hate for students to get exposed to that kind of approach to science, astrodynamics or otherwise. And because of information sharing via the internet, you can't separate the two.

The educational side of the game is also the exact reason that a lack of female kerbals is down-right criminal (and yes, they're easily identifiable as males, with male attire, facial hair, and masculine names). Presenting a science game that has no identifiable female characters to young women sends a completely unacceptable message.

However, it's not the purpose of thread, so I acknowledge and strongly disagree your noted opinion above, and appreciate that you agree with the rest of my post.

Edited July 2, 2014 by LethalDose
minor typos

[Guest]

I just... really dislike the "dey r dum, lol" point of view. They're supposed to be developing an educational side to this game, and I'd hate for students to get exposed to that kind of approach to science, astrodynamics or otherwise. And because of information sharing via the internet, you can't separate the two.

The educational side of the game is also the exact reason that a lack of female kerbals is down-right criminal (and yes, they're easily identifiable as males, with male attire, facial hair, and masculine names). Presenting science game that had no identifiable female characters to young women sends a completely unacceptable message.

This bears so much repeating that I don't care whether it's off-topic.

On-topic, there are a lot of good ideas in this thread and I certainly hope the devs take note. A few more stats for Kerbals would be nice to round them out and give them more personality.

[hawk_za]

originally the stats were there as the pre requisites to be able to teach kerbals how to fly rockets on there own (ie turning your kerbal into a dumbed down version of mechjeb)

currently all they do is alter facial expressions

im sure the devs will come back to there beloved kerbals and add flying, takeoff and other autonomous ability via training