[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

[lo-fi]

Getting busy again....

This:

http://i.imgur.com/GF1sLjB.jpg

Seems to happen when I use your repulsions and the DDS Texture Reducer (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96729-0-25-DDSLoader-1-5-%28Oct-31%29-Loads-DDS-Texture-Yes-it-is-boring-edition ). Anyone else run into this problem?

Ouch, that's odd. Not had anyone run into that particular issue thus far, and I think Gaalidas' answer pretty much covers anything I would add.

Or that node toggler from the new B9 package, used specifically on the huge HX parts.

This experiment also showed that a few of the parts might benefit from some tweaked positions for both attach node types to better align with the visual position of the connecting part of the model. For instance, the side-mounted repulsors have the center of their surface and stack nodes set a little higher than the center of the area of the model that would be expected to be the attachment spot. I don't know how that would affect the attachment of the part though, just an observation. It's a little like some of the bobcat wheels and landing legs. Those things were huge and looked awesome if you're going for "nuttier than modern sci-fi" but their attachment nodes were in such a horrible position that trying to surface attach them to your craft was a huge pain. The attach node was at the center of that side of the model, but the modeled part that should be the attachment point on the hull was 10 feet above it. I tried adjusting those nodes in the past, but it was a real pain without knowing what the scale was. I'll experiment a bit more if I get the chance. As it is, the stack node hasn't interfered with the placement of the parts unless a stack node in the same orientation was placed on the part I was attaching to, and sicne most stack nodes will be aligned with the... uhh... stack, well... I see little chance for anything out of whack to happen. Still, might have to add compatibility for a toggler anyway.

Oh, and the node size is up for debate. I picked what deemed to be fair, and bumped it up and down based on the side of the part I was dealing with (using the standard M1 wheel size as a measuring stick, so to speak.)

YES! Oh gawd yes!

I've been asking for something along those lines literally FOREVER! That is the one problem that has always faced me when making off-world bases. It's near impossible to find reliably flat ground anywhere, and I refuse to settle for "almost perfect" when it comes to stabilizing and securing my structures and their various connections.

Sounds like I could do with tweaking the attach point for the repulsors. I'm sure I read what the equivalent node size for surface attach was, but I can't remember now. Landing legs are going to be fun, I can't wait ti have them working

Pressing the M key when having anti grav repulsors crashes the game

log : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewj3qn36i2x6dsj/output_log.txt?dl=0

Thanks for posting the log. Going through it, it looks like you've had a graphics crash though. A lot going on in that install, so I'd check your memory usage and strip something out and see if it stops. I've got no key bindings in the plugin, and I can't replicate myself I'm afraid.

I really like the tracks.

http://i.imgur.com/jVKYapI.png

http://i.imgur.com/E2X1R81.png

I've tiddled with the repulsors and they're fun too but I'm not imaginative to do much with them. To that guy with the SW racing pods...

WOA!

I'll try to make a Swoop Bike (KotOR style). With FAR, I wonder how fast I can make it while keeping it stable.

EDIT:

Oh, that's hella sweet an idea. Please!

I'd forgotten about the swoop bike, that would be cool Need to generate some ideas for the pod racer challenge. Maybe a set course using terrain features somewhere?

The last time I tried to build a pod racer, I smashed Jeb into the side of the VAB. They're difficult for me to build, but I could give it a try. Where'd I put my KAS install again...

Or did Jeb smash Jeb into the side of a wall in a snacks coma...?

You guys will need PLENTY of Ec.

Pssst. You can change that in the config using chargeConsumptionRate = in the repulsor module. 1 is the default value set in the plugin, other values obviously scale it.

[ratchet freak]

How hard would it be to make a self-steering module,

What I mean is that if the wheel isn't perpendicular on the ground it steers a bit "uphill" (within limits)

This would make realistic bicycles possible without having to rely on reaction wheels. Because the front wheel will automatically steer into the turn and correct the lean.

[Axelord FTW]

Swoop Bikes comes in a lot of variety so I'm sure there can be variety in the challenge type.

In KotOR, Swoop Races are basically just Dragster races. I'm sure that a high speed recording would be the determining factor. A simple here to there track (marked with flags?) would work. One of the limiting factors would be how well they behave at high speed (both with Stock and FAR/NEAR). I'm not sure how the rocket boosters could be implemented into the Swoop (which went on automatically when you reached a certain speed).

Speeder Bikes could use a more traditional racing track.

As for the people making full blown podracers... No idea.

P.S. I'd probably be making a Twin Block2 Special. Though, I might try and make a full blown one this weekend.

[lo-fi]

How hard would it be to make a self-steering module,

What I mean is that if the wheel isn't perpendicular on the ground it steers a bit "uphill" (within limits)

This would make realistic bicycles possible without having to rely on reaction wheels. Because the front wheel will automatically steer into the turn and correct the lean.

The honest answer is not very, but not impossible. It would require putting the wheel collider on the end of a configurable joint to get the forces to transfer back up as the caster angle does it's job.

Swoop Bikes comes in a lot of variety so I'm sure there can be variety in the challenge type.

In KotOR, Swoop Races are basically just Dragster races. I'm sure that a high speed recording would be the determining factor. A simple here to there track (marked with flags?) would work. One of the limiting factors would be how well they behave at high speed (both with Stock and FAR/NEAR). I'm not sure how the rocket boosters could be implemented into the Swoop (which went on automatically when you reached a certain speed).

Speeder Bikes could use a more traditional racing track.

As for the people making full blown podracers... No idea.

P.S. I'd probably be making a Twin Block2 Special. Though, I might try and make a full blown one this weekend.

Cool, look forward to seeing that

Pod/swoop races are going to take some thought, I think the simple course with flags would be cool, I'll see if achroma might be amenable to releasing the ones he demonstrated in his racing vid.

[ratchet freak]

Actually the dot product between the surface normal (on which the wheel is colliding) and the right vector of the wheel contains enough information about which way the caster angle should go. If it is negative then "uphill" is to the right and if negative then it is to left.

[lo-fi]

The dot products are already calculated in my code for determining part orientation on the vessel, so that bit is easy . Sadly, with the wheel colliders being a one-dimensional raycast and the up-chain hierarchy being non-kinematic until you reach a part joint, whatever you do in that respect won't get you very far. You could probably bodge something workable together with a uni-wheel (working on one of these) and a carefully configured and oriented IR docking washer.... I'm just learning about configurable joints myself, but have a lot of work ahead of me before I can produce anything so sophisticated in a single part.

It's like a feeding frenzy of ideas around here at the moment; it's absolutely brilliant

EDIT: And we just reached 100 votes for more tracks. I had no idea these things would be so popular! Interesting that rover bodies are in second place too, I think Spanner has come along just at the right time with his DSR range (which will hopefully see an initial release soon^TM)

Edited November 5, 2014 by lo-fi

[Madrias]

Electric Charge is no problem here. Hiding away a probe sized nuclear reactor, there's the hard part. KSP Interstellar. Or I go out of my way and make a Super RTG again...

[Darren9]

I still have the Kerbull Air-race gate, it's a huge archway - big enough to fly a plane through, just six parts once you've stuck on landing legs to stop it glitching when the terrain detail changes. I could make another course, or anyone else can have the gate if they want to have a go. Do you think I should make it smaller

[Gaalidas]

The dot products are already calculated in my code for determining part orientation on the vessel, so that bit is easy . Sadly, with the wheel colliders being a one-dimensional raycast and the up-chain hierarchy being non-kinematic until you reach a part joint, whatever you do in that respect won't get you very far. You could probably bodge something workable together with a uni-wheel (working on one of these) and a carefully configured and oriented IR docking washer.... I'm just learning about configurable joints myself, but have a lot of work ahead of me before I can produce anything so sophisticated in a single part.

It's like a feeding frenzy of ideas around here at the moment; it's absolutely brilliant

EDIT: And we just reached 100 votes for more tracks. I had no idea these things would be so popular! Interesting that rover bodies are in second place too, I think Spanner has come along just at the right time with his DSR range (which will hopefully see an initial release soon^TM)

I was just wondering where the idea for surface-mountable tracks went off to. I've had a few designs recently that could have used a track system that could be attached to the bottom of the craft. In fact, those mole tracks would be excellent candidates, just need to make that surface on the top be the anchor for all of the animation and stick an attach node on it. Now if we could just have a tweakable that would switch the mounting-orientation on the fly without having to produce a separate part. Oh dear, I think I just opened up another metaphorical can of beans.

Plus, we really do need some longer tracks. a single track part that could support the entire length of a DSR hull itself would be fantastic.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Gaalidas

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@ Darren should make it a Kerbal Konstruct static model then it's fit and forget and can be 3 parts

[lo-fi]

I still have the Kerbull Air-race gate, it's a huge archway - big enough to fly a plane through, just six parts once you've stuck on landing legs to stop it glitching when the terrain detail changes. I could make another course, or anyone else can have the gate if they want to have a go. Do you think I should make it smaller

http://i.imgur.com/tzsJr8a.png

Excellent! That must be hilarious building it in the SPH.. Spanner's KK idea might be a good call to static stuff. Bundle up a set track and run time trials. What do you reckon? What we start a thread in the challenges forum?

I was just wondering where the idea for surface-mountable tracks went off to. I've had a few designs recently that could have used a track system that could be attached to the bottom of the craft. In fact, those mole tracks would be excellent candidates, just need to make that surface on the top be the anchor for all of the animation and stick an attach node on it. Now if we could just have a tweakable that would switch the mounting-orientation on the fly without having to produce a separate part. Oh dear, I think I just opened up another metaphorical can of beans.

Plus, we really do need some longer tracks. a single track part that could support the entire length of a DSR hull itself would be fantastic.

So much to do! Yep, I'll get back to long tracks shortly, I know what I want to make now FSU making new landing legs currently.. Bottom mount tracks? Yes, I had a bit of an issues, in that I need to modify the plugin because the orientation ends up being a bit different. That will take a little time I'm afraid, as will the tweakable mount. I small tracks were going to be under-mounted, but all the part orientation stuff gets all fubar and they wouldn't steer, so it will need adjusting.

[Madrias]

Here's the thing: What explicitly defines a podracer? There'll always be someone like me who tries to find the loophole.

[Gaalidas]

Excellent! That must be hilarious building it in the SPH.. Spanner's KK idea might be a good call to static stuff. Bundle up a set track and run time trials. What do you reckon? What we start a thread in the challenges forum?

So much to do! Yep, I'll get back to long tracks shortly, I know what I want to make now FSU making new landing legs currently.. Bottom mount tracks? Yes, I had a bit of an issues, in that I need to modify the plugin because the orientation ends up being a bit different. That will take a little time I'm afraid, as will the tweakable mount. I small tracks were going to be under-mounted, but all the part orientation stuff gets all fubar and they wouldn't steer, so it will need adjusting.

In the meantime we can just build a bracket that provides the right mounting orientation that, itself, attaches to the bottom of a craft. It's not that difficult with the standard I-beams and such.

[Darren9]

We can make a challenge, maybe a bit more general and anything that levitates on repulsors rather than must run experience the joy of KAS and quantum strut playing up? I'll have a look at KK it'll solve the gates flying around when you get near them. How long for a track, 3-4 mins if you happen to average 200mph?

[lo-fi]

In the meantime we can just build a bracket that provides the right mounting orientation that, itself, attaches to the bottom of a craft. It's not that difficult with the standard I-beams and such.

Yeah, that would work

We can make a challenge, maybe a bit more general and anything that levitates on repulsors rather than must run experience the joy of KAS and quantum strut playing up? I'll have a look at KK it'll solve the gates flying around when you get near them. How long for a track, 3-4 mins if you happen to average 200mph?

Sounds good to me. Yep, KK ought to help with that, and 3-4 minutes sound sensible given fuel limitations. Half water, half coast for a bit of high speed and some terrain to negotiate?

[Madrias]

General repulsorcraft could be a lot of fun. I know a few good designs that might work.

My current bit of fun is a single-engine podracer. I forgot to install Quantum Struts so I made do with what I had. Takes 5 minutes before you're ready for launch, but it's a bit of fun.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Gentlemen after becoming aware of the fact that most of you share the same "i wonder if?" type curiosity as me and seeing Darrens arch has Prompted me to show you these.

Yes it is possible to loop the loop with a rover , but certainly not with stock wheels, and I've never managed enough control to do it with repulsors, good luck trying , dl below if you use KK they 'll go straight in just by start of runway( sold as seen) (and seriously they've been around since 0.19)

HotwheelsLoop

Ramps one appears in structural menu

[Darren9]

I'm going to have another coffee and go loop-d-looping, thanks. Don't suppose I could have those rocks in the background please, they'd make very nice gates for the course. I'm having trouble with the arch, it's upside down and too small in KK and I only have the exported model from the gamedata folder and not even Unity installed (nor know how to use it)

[lo-fi]

I should have known you'd have something crazy like that in your toy box, Spanner!

Watch my wheel modding tutorial if you need pointers getting started with unity, Darren. Or shout if you've got questions

[Madrias]

I want to do the loopy-loop, but I don't have anything fast enough...

Lo-fi, how fast can your Repulsor Converting wheels go without exploding? Um, just for reference. Not like I was thinking of strapping a jet to a jeep and trying. That'd be just crazy, right?

[lo-fi]

In other news:

That's a record. Three hours from nothing to a KSP part. Needs a little finesse to the track skin, suspension mesh, UV mapping and obviously some textures, but that's the hard bit done. It's good to finally have a workflow for these, they were so damn hard to start with, and it used to take me two days to get half that far.

[lo-fi]

I want to do the loopy-loop, but I don't have anything fast enough...

Lo-fi, how fast can your Repulsor Converting wheels go without exploding? Um, just for reference. Not like I was thinking of strapping a jet to a jeep and trying. That'd be just crazy, right?

No speed limits on my wheels Though if you're going to play with the torque curves, just remember about the maxRPM. All it does it cut the torque production to zero, it's not a hard limit on how fast they can rotate when pushed by SRB's....

[Gaalidas]

In other news: http://youtu.be/bmQcbsAkxQs

That's a record. Three hours from nothing to a KSP part. Needs a little finesse to the track skin, suspension mesh, UV mapping and obviously some textures, but that's the hard bit done. It's good to finally have a workflow for these, they were so damn hard to start with, and it used to take me two days to get half that far.

That's awesome. I do so love it when I get my workflow with something down to that magical spot where I can almost do it without thinking.

[Madrias]

Made it through the loop with SRB's, found out they kill the Kerbal on landing... Thankfully Jeb left the keys to his trucks around KSC when he went to the Mun, and the Interns have been having too much fun with a pile of Rocket-Assist Takeoff Boosters they found in a corner of the SPH. As in "How did you destroy three trucks already? And what happened to the landing light? Where's Enbas Kerman at, the Director wants to see him in the office?" kind of fun.

[lo-fi]

Ah, Kerbal kind of fun. Just don't let them lick the RTG's again...