[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

[lo-fi]

I've gone for the modular approach with the IR Rework and it's proven good:

• Core Pack - Parts I consider to be essential to the mod
  
• Expansion Pack - Parts that are cool but that most players don't need day-to-day
  
• Utility Pack - All the parts with dependencies or that aren't robotic (e.g grippers, wheels, struts)
  

What I find interesting is the difference in number of downloads on KerbalStuff, the Core and Utility packs are far more popular than the Expansion pack (or they were before KSP 1.0 hit)

I'll look into it.

Sometimes you get certain mods that show up on the first page, but the third in the series gets buried to the second page and people just move on to other things rather than go to the next page. KerbalStuff needs to allow the number of items per page to be expanded, or allow a mod entry to expand into a sub-list so modular modification packages can group their stuff together. Another nice feature would be to allow the parent entry that hosts the sub-list to have a "download the latest version of all sub-listed mods" button or something.

I'm definitely guilty of not checking out stuff that are buried and later, upon finding out they exist, I'm amazed I never saw it before. If only we payed more attention.

As for IR rework... yeah, it's pretty modular, but it also doesn't reuse a lot of assets. Granted, there is a part of it that uses dummy textures, but for the most part there's a ton of textures that are all identical to each other in separate folders. I will grant you that most users would not notice the memory impact, but I'm running on a non-gaming laptop and I have to grab every little bit whenever possible. This leads to me having to do some modifications to how the IR parts reference their models and textures whenever I update.

The USI model sounds pretty neat, actually. Changing paths and recompiling won't be that taxing.

Soooo....I did a thing.

http://imgur.com/a/Zzzrr

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing! I need to revisit the trailer hitch again...

[ZodiusInfuser]

As for IR rework... yeah, it's pretty modular, but it also doesn't reuse a lot of assets. Granted, there is a part of it that uses dummy textures, but for the most part there's a ton of textures that are all identical to each other in separate folders. I will grant you that most users would not notice the memory impact, but I'm running on a non-gaming laptop and I have to grab every little bit whenever possible. This leads to me having to do some modifications to how the IR parts reference their models and textures whenever I update.

The current textures are the same across the packs purely because they're placeholder. In the final versions it won't be possible to have the packs share the same textures in the way you're doing.

[sebi.zzr]

Hello.Has anyone managed to make Wayland RV3 Rover Wheel to work with this plugin?I'm trying for a day now and can't wrap my head around it.I used KFroverWheelM1.cfg as base and tried to put the right parameters in,but it just won't work.

If someone has any idea or hint?Thank you.

Edited May 22, 2015 by sebi.zzr

[Horus]

lo-fi, is it intended that when releasing forward throttle the wheels do not have thrust decay on a plain horizontal surface?

[lo-fi]

Hello.Has anyone managed to make Wayland RV3 Rover Wheel to work with this plugin?I'm trying for a day now and can't wrap my head around it.I used KFroverWheelM1.cfg as base and tried to put the right parameters in,but it just won't work.

If someone has any idea or hint?Thank you.

They're pretty cool. I'll have a quick look and will add to the configs repo.

lo-fi, is it intended that when releasing forward throttle the wheels do not have thrust decay on a plain horizontal surface?

Not sure what you mean?

[ZodiusInfuser]

lo-fi, is it intended that when releasing forward throttle the wheels do not have thrust decay on a plain horizontal surface?

I know that stock wheels have a bug where this happens if you right-click on them (as their braking force gets capped to 30). I would have thought Kerbal Foundries would be immune from this though.

[Horus]

Not sure what you mean?

I mean that when a vehicle is on a plain horizontal surface you can apply thrust for some time (pressing W button) then releasing thrust, but the vehicle will be moving forward without any speed loss.

[lo-fi]

Ah, I see. I've been doing some work with Riocrokite on implementing a rough rolling resistance model, which will be in the next incremental release. This means rolling resistance will vary depending on the parts design, size, load and speed. All will behave differently, which I think ought to be a nice differentiator to other mods. If you want to mess about with it now, there is a simple, constant rollingResistance config field you can play with.

[ZodiusInfuser]

Ah, I see. I've been doing some work with Riocrokite on implementing a rough rolling resistance model, which will be in the next incremental release. This means rolling resistance will vary depending on the parts design, size, load and speed. All will behave differently, which I think ought to be a nice differentiator to other mods. If you want to mess about with it now, there is a simple, constant rollingResistance config field you can play with.

Will the current constant still be an option in the new version? I found the mecanums don't like anything above 0.05, so being able to set that is quite important.

[lo-fi]

Yeah, it's just a few floatcurves, so you can set them to single values or zero and job's done.

Wayland wheel is up:

https://github.com/KerbalFoundries/WheelConfigs/

[B-STRK]

Hiya lo-fi, I loved these wheels as far back as .25 (earliest I've used them), but for a challenge in 1.0 I've thinking about sticking to the stock wheels for now, but I do want the (certainly far more superior) Foundries behavior I've grown to love. So, a few questions from a config noob:

Could I ask how to use the configs for the stock wheels in the github link above? Is it necessary to have Kerbal Foundries also installed or can the cfgs be dropped in standalone? (Also, if KF will be necessary for the configs to work, and I was interested in only giving the stock wheels KF behavior but not installing the KF wheels, which files should I not delete from KF?) Sorry if it's been asked before (though it would have been more than a few pages back...)

Also, with the KF configs active instead of the stock configs, will the stock wheels still break/be damaged from impact or heavy loads just like under stock configs (or they won't/indestructible, or they won't break but will blow up once the impact tolerance is reached)? And finally, will the KF stock wheel configs have any problems with the Rover Wheel Sound mod (one or the other won't work due to reference changes)?

Thanks!

[lo-fi]

These are the wheel configs you're looking for Just slap them somewhere inside GameData and you're good to go. There was a small bug with the small wheels, but I think I fixed that the other day.

No overspeed or impact damage is currently modelled with KF, and you'll have no problems with the wheels sounds mod. You'll just need what's in the plugins and sounds directory (IIRC) and can remove all the directories containing parts.

Have fun!

[B-STRK]

And it works like a charm! Far better than stock twitching and twerking

One slight issue I found, though, is that when the XL3 wheels are used with a light craft (the fuel tank in the pic below is empty, as are the monoprops in the cupola), they like to hover...

When the tanks are full, though, the wheels do contact the ground...

I have a suspicion it's the suspension settings, is it? (That the wheel's graphic can only extend so far down to the ground, though the actual collider model (which would be the physical wheel in question) does extend further down. Not being a coder or a programmer, I can't know, but I guess I've hung around this thread to get a couple of ideas or two...)

In any case, have you seen or heard from anyone about this before?

But other than this, I love how these wheels are under KF than under stock. Have yet to test this or the others on the Mun, though, but I'll get there.

EDIT: Yeah, I also saw a tiny bit of "hover" on the rugged wheels, too. Tiny, though, not noticeable unless one really looks.

Edited May 23, 2015 by B-STRK

[ZodiusInfuser]

Lo-fi, does this disableTweakables flag also turn off the action groups associated with those fields too? Also, if someone happens to put a normal KF wheel on the cract, would applying an update also affect parts with tweakables hidden, or is it only wheels of the same type that it gets applied to?

[lo-fi]

And it works like a charm! Far better than stock twitching and twerking

One slight issue I found, though, is that when the XL3 wheels are used with a light craft (the fuel tank in the pic below is empty, as are the monoprops in the cupola), they like to hover...

http://i.imgur.com/29ZLY5c.png

When the tanks are full, though, the wheels do contact the ground...

I have a suspicion it's the suspension settings, is it? (That the wheel's graphic can only extend so far down to the ground, though the actual collider model (which would be the physical wheel in question) does extend further down. Not being a coder or a programmer, I can't know, but I guess I've hung around this thread to get a couple of ideas or two...)

In any case, have you seen or heard from anyone about this before?

But other than this, I love how these wheels are under KF than under stock. Have yet to test this or the others on the Mun, though, but I'll get there.

EDIT: Yeah, I also saw a tiny bit of "hover" on the rugged wheels, too. Tiny, though, not noticeable unless one really looks.

I've not really had any feedback yet, so thank you. I'll have a look at tweaking the settings; I have to do some crazy stuff in-game to make them behave nicely.

Lo-fi, does this disableTweakables flag also turn off the action groups associated with those fields too? Also, if someone happens to put a normal KF wheel on the cract, would applying an update also affect parts with tweakables hidden, or is it only wheels of the same type that it gets applied to?

Good point. It only disables tweakables and action groups for the parts you've set it on and I'll make sure they get forced to group zero, so will be unaffected by any settings changes actioned from other ordinary wheels

[Jackvony]

When i use the treads my tank keeps turning off to one side please help.

[Madrias]

Having way too much fun with a new bit of exploring that I'm fairly sure no one else has done: Driving small tracked vehicles with kerbals on 'em up the stairways at KSC.

[lo-fi]

When i use the treads my tank keeps turning off to one side please help.

Please read the bug reporting instructions in the OP.

Having way too much fun with a new bit of exploring that I'm fairly sure no one else has done: Driving small tracked vehicles with kerbals on 'em up the stairways at KSC.

I had no idea you could even do that! Screenshots!

[Gaalidas]

Technically, the stairways are just really steep inclines and not actual steps. I've seen small wheeled vehicles go up them, I took a kerbal up to the control tower on the island runway before, and I even witnessed someone land a small probe in the tower, then roll it down the stairs. I imagine navigating them with a craft requires some very careful movements.

- - - Updated - - -

These are the wheel configs you're looking for Just slap them somewhere inside GameData and you're good to go. There was a small bug with the small wheels, but I think I fixed that the other day.

No overspeed or impact damage is currently modelled with KF, and you'll have no problems with the wheels sounds mod. You'll just need what's in the plugins and sounds directory (IIRC) and can remove all the directories containing parts.

Have fun!

A few notes on what lo-fi has said here:

The wheel sounds mod, last I checked, still relies on the stock wheel module to determine what pitch/volume to play the sounds at. So, while KF wheels and the stock conversions will behave alongside the sound mod, the sounds will only actually react to wheels still using the stock module. Anything running the KF module would rely on the way lo-fi implemented the sounds himself and not the way the other mod handles them. So, as lo-fi said, you'll have no problems, unless you consider the wheel sound mod not actually working on the KF-configured wheels a problem... in that case you'll have tons of problems. It's all a matter of perspective really.

[Madrias]

Please read the bug reporting instructions in the OP.

I had no idea you could even do that! Screenshots!

I'll get some screenshots when I get back in KSP sometime later. Was a lot of fun seeing how many areas I could get to by wheeling my way up the stairs.

Technically, the stairways are just really steep inclines and not actual steps. I've seen small wheeled vehicles go up them, I took a kerbal up to the control tower on the island runway before, and I even witnessed someone land a small probe in the tower, then roll it down the stairs. I imagine navigating them with a craft requires some very careful movements.

Oh, I knew they were just steep inclines with a texture on 'em. Just figured it'd be worth noting that it's possible to drive small tracked rovers up the inclines with a hint of care. The ledges are enough to stop a slow moving craft, and other than a few occasions where I lost grip and screwed up a 90 degree turn, it was easy enough to make quick progress. The occasions where I lost grip in the top of the turn, I ended up sliding down the stairs sideways.

Was just pointing out that it's possible to explore the KSC with a bit of effort and a small design. It's also incredibly fun seeing just how far you can get around the KSC without setting wheels (or tracks) on the ground once you've gotten rooftop bound. Small rocket motors, a fuel cell of some form or another, and a parachute seem to help, too.

And I'm really enjoying the fact that 1.0.x seems to have redesigned parachutes so you can actually use them as drag chutes on the ground. Rocket powered dragsters are fun now.

[riT-k0MA]

I've been experiencing an issue where 1 of the 4 tracks in my payload is overheating during launch.

I'm sending up a mining fuel tanker, which uses 4 medium tracks to get around on the ground. The payload is separated from the rocket by a girder. The tracks are further isolated by means of Cubic Octagonal Struts linking them to the payload body. One of the tracks, sitting under an aerodynamic shell, seems to overheat during launch while the other 3 are unaffected.

Before I actually submit a bug, has anyone else experienced something similar?

[lo-fi]

This is sadly a known issue. Bounds detection for the skinned mesh that the tracks use does not work properly in KSP, so it is likely that the fairings are not actually protecting them. Its a complicated issue, and not one I have a fix for as yet. Really, it will need some tweaking from Squad.

[riT-k0MA]

This is sadly a known issue. Bounds detection for the skinned mesh that the tracks use does not work properly in KSP, so it is likely that the fairings are not actually protecting them. Its a complicated issue, and not one I have a fix for as yet. Really, it will need some tweaking from Squad.

Thanks for the info. How much wider should I make my fairings? (preferably in terms of Cubic Octagonal strut lengths - easiest thing to tack on in the VAB)

[lo-fi]

Difficult to say! Some experimentation is probably needed, and will be different for every track.

[DeepOdyssey]

Please convert textures to .DDS,you can save 40MB that way.

Otherwise great mod.