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[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

lo-fi

By lo-fi
in KSP1 Mod Development

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What to work on next?  

1,282 members have voted

  1. 1. What to work on next?

    • More wheels
      123
    • More tracks
      453
    • Rover bodies
      241
    • Landing gear
      137
    • Landing legs
      108
    • Something completely different
      193

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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Just took a peek at pizza's mod. It's using a very different method to mine, so more tinkering may be required. It's possible the effects module isn't quite flexible enough, so I may have to change how it works. Let me know how you get on, anyway :)

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Gaalidas

Gaalidas

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I did some fiddling with the effects node for the sounds last night and got some slightly better results, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Also, we really need a good track sound. Something that sounds like a more heavy-duty vehicle crawling over the landscape, obliterating weeds and stray kerbal-offspring along the way... all for science of course.

I plan to fiddle with the numbers at much more extreme levels to see how far the effects node can be pushed as far as the range of the sounds. If I return to report on that, you'll know I survived. Otherwise, well... it's a good day to die.

One thing I noticed with the WIP repulsor-wheels is that there is only one effect defined in its config. Something is going to need to be altered in order to account for the second mode's sound effect.

Edited by Gaalidas
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lo-fi

lo-fi

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I did some fiddling with the effects node for the sounds last night and got some slightly better results, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Also, we really need a good track sound. Something that sounds like a more heavy-duty vehicle crawling over the landscape, obliterating weeds and stray kerbal-offspring along the way... all for science of course.

I think the way forward is to use multiple effects. One that relates to road noise, to coin the term, another that simulates motors working on acceleration and maybe one more for sliding. Also servo sounds for steering, I suppose... Tracks definitely need something more hefty sounding. I'll have a look.

I plan to fiddle with the numbers at much more extreme levels to see how far the effects node can be pushed as far as the range of the sounds. If I return to report on that, you'll know I survived. Otherwise, well... it's a good day to die.

Excellent, I look. Forward to a full report :) just remember not to wear a red shirt and you should be fine ;)

One thing I noticed with the WIP repulsor-wheels is that there is only one effect defined in its config. Something is going to need to be altered in order to account for the second mode's sound effect.

Yeah, they're in the middle of a re-write

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Gaalidas

Gaalidas

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Well, that fiddling, while completed for my first test as far as config bashing goes, is on hold until more of the essentials get updated to work under KSP v.25

I swear, the shirt isn't red. It's just... dark orange. What could go wrong?

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SpannerMonkey(smce)

SpannerMonkey(smce)

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Apart from the missing amphibious qualities of the Hypnodrive all seems good in 0.25 32bit , although every time they update it seems that the stock game just gets greedier for memory than the last.

Something to be aware of though is that there've been many reports of issues with tga.s not being found correctly also the tga loader is apparently bugged and as a consequence tgas are using more memory than they should, and horribly it's very random so sometimes they work and sometimes they don't

. So a hot fix re export might be the best option

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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Urgh. There was a thread suggesting that TGA was the best way to go, and it leaves the textures open to modifications.

Thanks for the info, maybe not too much is broken this time :)

Check your configs for the hypno, they should include ModulePropeller. Check that the plugin spits a 'version 1.7.001' message at you too, you've got one or the other in a pickle, I think.

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SpannerMonkey(smce)

SpannerMonkey(smce)

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Just re running , i've already checked the module and it's as it should be , this is the version from the op btw, not a dev version, plugins report v1 in log though as below, just re dl'd and reran to make sure and it's still v1

Mod DLLs found:
  Assembly-CSharp v1.0.0.0
  ModuleManager.2.5.1 v2.5.1.0
  BDAnimationModules v0.0.0.0
  BahaTurret v0.0.0.0
  BoatInterface v1.0.0.0
  LandAssist v1.0.0.0
  shiplanded v1.0.0.0
  CameraTools v0.0.0.0
  Firespitter v7.0.5321.18956
  JSIPartUtilities v0.0.1.0
  MechJeb2 v2.3.0.0
  RasterPropMonitor v0.17.0.0
  MechJebRPM v0.17.0.0

[B]  ObjectTools v1.0.0.0[/B]
[B]  Wheels v1.0.0.0[/B]

 KerbalKonstructs v1.0.0.0
  RemoteTech v1.0.0.0

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Gaalidas

Gaalidas

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As far as textures are concerned, I have a batch file that unzips all my mods when I download them, and then converts any MBM files it finds into PNG, then converts any TGA files it finds into PNG. I hve had no issues using PNG format, and compared to MBM they are a TON smaller, and even compared to TGA you still save a lot of disk usage. In memory, I'm unsure, but I have had a lot less crashes from large mods compared with using TGA/MBM formats. PNG still allows for access by the user to modify.

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Gaalidas

Gaalidas

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Not from what I've experienced... but then I've been using the "Load On Demand" mod (not currently updated for .25) which replaces all the textures with thumbnails during load so that it can load the full sizes when the parts requiring them are currently on screen, leaving memory much less affected by lots of textures. Of course, it increases the disk space required in your GameData folder, but that's a necessary evil. I think the main issue was the lack of mip-mapping without texture processing mods. I use Texture Replacer, but i do not let it generate mip-maps because I can take a little less performance just to have nice textures. with mips available, KSP will load a rather low mipped version at the wrong level of detail and cause me to have to build in the VAB with 4-5th level mips instead of just 1/2 scaled textures (which has been a required setting in KSP for me so that it doesn't crash every 6 minutes.) These are the woes of running KSP on a laptop that was not necessarily made for gaming. I wouldn't have it any other way either (well, now I would, but back then I wouldn't. I've learned so much from having to figure out how to run this stuff with limited computing power.)

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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Just re running , i've already checked the module and it's as it should be , this is the version from the op btw, not a dev version, plugins report v1 in log though as below, just re dl'd and reran to make sure and it's still v1

Mod DLLs found:
  Assembly-CSharp v1.0.0.0
  ModuleManager.2.5.1 v2.5.1.0
  BDAnimationModules v0.0.0.0
  BahaTurret v0.0.0.0
  BoatInterface v1.0.0.0
  LandAssist v1.0.0.0
  shiplanded v1.0.0.0
  CameraTools v0.0.0.0
  Firespitter v7.0.5321.18956
  JSIPartUtilities v0.0.1.0
  MechJeb2 v2.3.0.0
  RasterPropMonitor v0.17.0.0
  MechJebRPM v0.17.0.0

[B]  ObjectTools v1.0.0.0[/B]
[B]  Wheels v1.0.0.0[/B]

 KerbalKonstructs v1.0.0.0
  RemoteTech v1.0.0.0

I haven't got round to getting Visual Studio to incrementing the build number automatically. You'll find the parts print the build number to the log when they enter flight. I'll look into this.

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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Not from what I've experienced... but then I've been using the "Load On Demand" mod (not currently updated for .25) which replaces all the textures with thumbnails during load so that it can load the full sizes when the parts requiring them are currently on screen, leaving memory much less affected by lots of textures. Of course, it increases the disk space required in your GameData folder, but that's a necessary evil. I think the main issue was the lack of mip-mapping without texture processing mods. I use Texture Replacer, but i do not let it generate mip-maps because I can take a little less performance just to have nice textures. with mips available, KSP will load a rather low mipped version at the wrong level of detail and cause me to have to build in the VAB with 4-5th level mips instead of just 1/2 scaled textures (which has been a required setting in KSP for me so that it doesn't crash every 6 minutes.) These are the woes of running KSP on a laptop that was not necessarily made for gaming. I wouldn't have it any other way either (well, now I would, but back then I wouldn't. I've learned so much from having to figure out how to run this stuff with limited computing power.)

Ah, that might do it. I was looking at the dev thread for the loading on demand mod yesterday night and marvelling at the DX genius that goes into it.

On a positive note, everything compiles fine with the 0.25 binary references, so there should be no immediate problems without me running an update specifically for it. No API changes in the bits I use :)

I have to admit, I don't run many mods (ironic as I'm making one, right?) so I'm nowhere near the memory limit that gives so many problems. I tend to prune the mods I do run down to that parts I actually use, and I avoid anything that depends on another mod or plugin like the absolute plague, unless it's a parts pack specifically for something like IR, for example. That and I haven't actually played KSP for months! :/ Maybe I need to go launch something that isn't supposed to be stuck to the floor...

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NoMrBond

NoMrBond

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I thought PNG had a bunch of issues, particularly load times? I'll dig out the thread...

The .PNG load time issue was fixed previously, however PNG's do not get mipmaps generated by default (if that's an issue). The B9 pack just switched to .PNG textures from .TGA's because of asset loader issues with .TGA's.

Normals should end with _NRM for proper handling by the asset loader too (i.e. medwheel_NRM.png etc), not sure if relevant but obscure texture info.

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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The .PNG load time issue was fixed previously, however PNG's do not get mipmaps generated by default (if that's an issue). The B9 pack just switched to .PNG textures from .TGA's because of asset loader issues with .TGA's.

Normals should end with _NRM for proper handling by the asset loader too (i.e. medwheel_NRM.png etc), not sure if relevant but obscure texture info.

Cheers for the clarification :) I have a feeling the .23 version of part tools now names the normal maps appropriately, but it's certainly worth checking.

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Gaalidas

Gaalidas

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There is news that TGAs are having problems especially with 0.25.

This is what the Texture Replacer post has to say about texture formats:

Texture Format Guide (for developers)

This guide only covers TGA, PNG and JPEG formats since MBMs are (almost) never used in texture packs and I don't know much about them.

TGA (*.tga)

  • Vanilla (non-modded): not compressed; mipmaps
  • TextureReplacer: compressed (DXT1 or DXT5); mipmaps
  • Supports transparency.
  • No quality loss.
  • The fastest loading times (vanilla: no compression, TR: compressed once).
  • The largest size on disk.
  • Not suitable for UI icons since TGAs always have mipmaps.

PNG (*.png)

  • Vanilla: compressed (DXT5); no mipmaps
  • TextureReplacer: compressed (DXT1 or DXT5); mipmaps if included in `generateMipmaps` (should cover (almost) all model textures), no mipmaps otherwise (UI icons).
  • Supports transparency.
  • No quality loss.
  • Slower loading times (vanilla: compressed once, TR: compressed twice).
  • Smaller than TGA on disk but usually larger than JPEG.
  • Not suitable for model textures without TextureReplacer or ATM installed since they lack mipmaps.

JPEG (*.jpg)

  • Vanilla: compressed (DXT1); no mipmaps
  • TextureReplacer: compressed (DXT1); mipmaps if included in `generateMipmaps` (should cover (almost) all model textures), no mipmaps otherwise (UI icons).
  • No transparency.
  • Quality loss (depending on JPEG quality).
  • Slower loading times (vanilla: compressed once, TR: compressed twice).
  • Usually the smallest on disk.
  • Undesired for normal maps because of quality loss.
  • Not suitable for model textures without TextureReplacer or ATM installed since they lack mipmaps.

Normal maps (*NRM.tga, *NRM.png, *NRM.jpg)

  • Vanilla: not compressed; no mipmaps
  • TextureReplacer: not compressed; no mipmaps. Normal maps are unloaded immediately, so TextureReplacer cannot manipulate them. However, ATM can do that.

Clarifications

  • Texture compression reduces texture size to 1/6 (DXT1) or 1/4 (DXT5) in VRAM and also increases performance, since less data has to be transferred over the bus to the GPU. Because of quality loss, normal maps are often not compressed. Texture compression is a demanding process and drastically slows down texture loading.
  • When using 1/2, 1/4 etc. texture quality, mipmaps on all textures are shifted, so its 1st, 2nd etc. mipmap is used in place of the original texture. This works fine with models, but makes UI icons blurry. That's why UI images shouldn't have mipmaps.
  • TextureReplacer re-generates textures when building mipmaps. This means PNGs and JPEGs get compressed twice, first when Unity loads them and then when TextureReplacer rebuilds them with mipmaps. That's why TGAs are recommended for faster loading times.
  • During mipmap generation, TextureReplacer detects whether a texture has any transparent pixels, so DXT5-compressed PNGs may be re-compressed as DXT1.

Recommended texture formats

  • Vanilla: TGAs for model textures, PNGs for normal maps, PNGs or JPEGs for UI images.
  • With TextureReplacer or ATM: Any format for model textures, PNGs for normals maps, PNGs or JPEGs for UI images.

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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Thanks, that's really useful info. I'll wait for the dust to settle and evaluate the best way to go in the next few days.

Had a little play in .25 this eve; now tempted to make a bulldozer to do some proper KSC destruction ;) Not really sure why Squad decided that was an important feature at this stage, but it's quite fun.

I think the two standout features for me are the surface attachment disable in editor (way, way, way overdue in the stock game, even without cargo bays) and ModuleAnimateGeneric being upgraded to support multiple animations. Both of which please me no end and make a lot of the stuff I have planned a whole load easier without the dreaded "To use these parts, you will need...."

On a different (but related) note, has anyone else noticed how destructive the repulsors are? Run over the top of another vessel and BOOM. Which is great!

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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The allowance for modders to implement a custom asset loader for KSP in 0.25 could really be awesome and may address some of these issues

Oh yes. I have a feeling the significance of this has yet to be fully understood.

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Madrias

Madrias

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Slowly getting my 0.25 geared up for some fun. Had a spin with the new Career mode (I find the new-game sliders to be very useful for making a nice, easy, well-funded space program) and the first thing I did was blow up the VAB. Because Planes.

Now that I've done such a thing, I'll be adding in Kerbal Foundries (among other things) and seeing if I can make 0.25 puke.

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