goldenpsp Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 32 minutes ago, Aerolfos said: I'd say it was built to be used, so can't really complain there... however Squads behaviour is absolutely indefensible. The community vastly preferred a proper platform for and in a way by them (Mostly to spite Curse I know, but i agree, [expletive] them). How so? From a business perspective I doubt you would ever see Squad or any company officially endorsing something like Kerbalstuff.com it the form it was for one simple reason. Exactly what happened. Like them or not, curse is not a guy running a website on his own dime. They are an established business. While that doesn't mean Curse could run into financial or other trouble and shut down, it is far less likely than one guy who decides he's had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid_chris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 2 hours ago, dlrk said: Shutting it down for the stated reasons is OK. Doing so without warning is indefensible I'll stop you right there. That's a lot of entitlement mate. SirCmpwn, just as every modder, owes absolutely nothing to the community. What he did and what us modders do is extremely similar on our interaction with the community. It's a thankless job. You spend hundreds of hours of your personal time investing into a project, expecting absolutely nothing in return, and in return you mostly get an overwhelming amount of complaints, half-baked bug reports, and just general discontent. The amount of anger far outweighs the amount of thankfulness you receive. It's an exhausting job, and the payout is very low. Most often, it's done by love for the game and community. So if this community you give all this time and energy, and in his case, $1.2k per year, simply does not make it worth your while, he absolutely does not have to warn anyone if he decides to drop the project. No need in giving grace to a community who pushed you to the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedensuscg Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, goldenpsp said: How so? From a business perspective I doubt you would ever see Squad or any company officially endorsing something like Kerbalstuff.com it the form it was for one simple reason. Exactly what happened. Like them or not, curse is not a guy running a website on his own dime. They are an established business. While that doesn't mean Curse could run into financial or other trouble and shut down, it is far less likely than one guy who decides he's had enough. But didn't Squad, much like Kerbalstuff, start as a small, independent group of people asking others for help is funding their first project? I mean, it's like Squad started out as this big developer or anything. Their first vision for the game was a basic, 2D "how high can you go" game you could play on a phone. Kerbalstuff started as a single man, independent platform, and despite NOT having the business mindset of Curse and the resources was still vastly superior. Squad officially backing Kerbalstuff WOULD have made it rival Curse in other areas too. That is what liquides people off. It is that Squad ignored their own humble beginnings and chose to back a giant, "we don't care about our customers just their wallets" company over a website that was ABOUT the players first. It's the kind of anti-player crap that EA and Activision are famous for. You don't rub poop in the faces of your most staunch supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Why do people keep equating www.curse.com with http://kerbal.curseforge.com? Seriously, I don't get it. Could someone please explain this so it gets through my thick skull? Squad's move to use curseforge as the official mod platform has proven itself to be a wise decision, despite what people are saying. It has proven to be safe, stable, and reliable, at least in my experience. There are no ads. The web page looks exactly the same whether I use an adblocker or not. Those who say otherwise apparently are not seeing the same thing that I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedensuscg Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 2 hours ago, dlrk said: Shutting it down for the stated reasons is OK. Doing so without warning is indefensible I think the writing as been on the wall for a while. Between the downtime, slow speeds and his statements no the forums. And of course, yesterday when the site was down and before his message, people just automatically started attacking him, as opposed to taking a step back being thankful up to this point they never had to look at that abyssmal thing called curse. Oh and ona side note, yes MANY a times I DID start playing KSP when I got those emails saying this or that was updated. And when I play, I tend to talk a lot about it at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421d Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 minute ago, stupid_chris said: I'll stop you right there. That's a lot of entitlement mate. SirCmpwn, just as every modder, owes absolutely nothing to the community. What he did and what us modders do is extremely similar on our interaction with the community. It's a thankless job. You spend hundreds of hours of your personal time investing into a project, expecting absolutely nothing in return, and in return you mostly get an overwhelming amount of complaints, half-baked bug reports, and just general discontent. The amount of anger far outweighs the amount of thankfulness you receive. It's an exhausting job, and the payout is very low. Most often, it's done by love for the game and community. So if this community you give all this time and energy, and in his case, $1.2k per year, simply does not make it worth your while, he absolutely does not have to warn anyone if he decides to drop the project. No need in giving grace to a community who pushed you to the edge. you may stop him, but i think he's right. the key words are "without warning" i dont think i was ever asked to donate to the site when i used it. i dont know if i would have even if asked, but we all know how the internet works, there are other ways to generate revenue. its not our fault that there wasnt any steps taken by the owner to avoid running at a loss. thats on him, and he had his reasons why he did or did not do the things he did, but by providing the service there was an unspoken understanding that "if i upload my mods here for distribution, i will assume they will still be here tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedensuscg Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, Otis said: Why do people keep equating www.curse.com with http://kerbal.curseforge.com? Seriously, I don't get it. Could someone please explain this so it gets through my thick skull? Squad's move to use curseforge as the official mod platform has proven itself to be a wise decision, despite what people are saying. It has proven to be safe, stable, and reliable, at least in my experience. There are no ads. The web page looks exactly the same whether I use an adblocker or not. Those who say otherwise apparently are not seeing the same thing that I am. When you click the giant red MODS button on the kerbal home page, it takes you to Curse.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappyFace Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 @Otis, ppeople usually use the curse.com link instead of curseforge.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenpsp Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, jedensuscg said: But didn't Squad, much like Kerbalstuff, start as a small, independent group of people asking others for help is funding their first project? I mean, it's like Squad started out as this big developer or anything. Their first vision for the game was a basic, 2D "how high can you go" game you could play on a phone. Kerbalstuff started as a single man, independent platform, and despite NOT having the business mindset of Curse and the resources was still vastly superior. Squad officially backing Kerbalstuff WOULD have made it rival Curse in other areas too. That is what liquides people off. It is that Squad ignored their own humble beginnings and chose to back a giant, "we don't care about our customers just their wallets" company over a website that was ABOUT the players first. It's the kind of anti-player crap that EA and Activision are famous for. You don't rub poop in the faces of your most staunch supporters. I'm sorry but you are mixing pieces. KSP never started as some independent guy making a game. It was a guy at his COMPANY where his company backed the project and he made it as an employee. It has nothing to do with forgetting your roots or anything like that. It is much the same way that while Squad loves the modding community you will never see them backing any individual independent mod or modder. It's not even that Squad wouldn't want to, but there are business things that go on in the world that often make those sorts of things hard or improper to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 minute ago, jedensuscg said: When you click the giant red MODS button on the kerbal home page, it takes you to Curse.com. ?????? I just clicked the "Get Mods!" button at the top. It took me here : http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid_chris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 minute ago, TK421d said: you may stop him, but i think he's right. the key words are "without warning" i dont think i was ever asked to donate to the site when i used it. i dont know if i would have even if asked, but we all know how the internet works, there are other ways to generate revenue. its not our fault that there wasnt any steps taken by the owner to avoid running at a loss. thats on him, and he had his reasons why he did or did not do the things he did, but by providing the service there was an unspoken understanding that "if i upload my mods here for distribution, i will assume they will still be here tomorrow" That has absolutely nothing to do with the money. That's a peanut on the side. AFAIK, SirCmpwn was absolutely wholly able to pay it off without any problem. This has to do with everything else I mentioned and you ignored. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He sunk an incredible amount of time and energy in it and got little positive back, from both Squad and the community. He doesn't owe a warning. He doesn't owe a thumbs up. He doesn't even owe goodbye. He could've skipped this message. It would've been fair game. So instead of slamming him for leaving without a warning, thank the man for the work he put out for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedensuscg Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 minute ago, Otis said: ?????? I just clicked the "Get Mods!" button at the top. It took me here : http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ lol. Ya, they should replace the giant red one at kerbalspaceprogram.com then. THAT one goes to http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal which of course the first thing you see is GET PREMIUM..ads ads ads ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaAsh Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 hour ago, FiiZzioN said: He (SirCmpwn) never offered any way, shape, or form to donate; or much less help in any other way possible... so that is completely invalid. Yes he did. I did not donate to a mystical space unicorn. It's valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421d Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, stupid_chris said: That has absolutely nothing to do with the money. That's a peanut on the side. AFAIK, SirCmpwn was absolutely wholly able to pay it off without any problem. This has to do with everything else I mentioned and you ignored. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He sunk an incredible amount of time and energy in it and got little positive back, from both Squad and the community. He doesn't owe a warning. He doesn't owe a thumbs up. He doesn't even owe goodbye. He could've skipped this message. It would've been fair game. So instead of slamming him for leaving without a warning, thank the man for the work he put out for all of us. as i said. he offered a hosting service. period. that DOES mean he owes me at the very least a warning of when the service will end. i dont give the slightest care about what his reasons are, that is how business works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid_chris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TK421d said: as i said. he offered a hosting service. period. that DOES mean he owes me at the very least a warning of when the service will end. i dont give the slightest care about what his reasons are, that is how business works. Except it's not a business. It's free community work. It's volunteering. It's a free service. There's no engagement between him and the community, and therefore, no need for him to excuse himself. So as I said, this entitlement is extremely ill placed. He. Doesn't. Owe. Anyone. Anything. Edited February 15, 2016 by stupid_chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxg2827 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, TK421d said: as i said. he offered a hosting service. period. that DOES mean he owes me at the very least a warning of when the service will end. i dont give the slightest care about what his reasons are, that is how business works. It wasn't a service you paid for, so there really is no obligation on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421d Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, stupid_chris said: Except it's not a business. It's free community work. It's volunteering. It's a free service. There's no engagement between him and the community. thats not my fault if he did or did not engage, same as its not my fault it was unprofitable and led to his decision to end it. the fact remains there WAS an agreement to host files for distribution, and that agreement was broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, jedensuscg said: lol. Ya, they should replace the giant red one at kerbalspaceprogram.com then. THAT one goes to http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal which of course the first thing you see is GET PREMIUM..ads ads ads ads. I see says the blind man, thank you. I have never even seen that button until just now. I haven't once scrolled down far enough to find it. I'd bet that link is part of the deal Squad made with curse, to get revenue. Still, I'm not upset about it. If the revenue generated from that link gives us a reliable place to get mods, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandalis Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, TK421d said: as i said. he offered a hosting service. period. that DOES mean he owes me at the very least a warning of when the service will end. i dont give the slightest care about what his reasons are, that is how business works. Don't confuse personally running a site at cost, with a business. It was not a business. Did you sign a user agreement when you first went to the site? Did it have terms and conditions of use? And fyi, all the mods are still available, if you read far enough down on the page. As is the site's source code. Anyone else who's willing to resurrect the site, could do so. So instead of complaining and blaming, why don't you cough up the cash and restart it yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid_chris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, TK421d said: thats not my fault if he did or did not engage, same as its not my fault it was unprofitable and led to his decision to end it. the fact remains there WAS an agreement to host files for distribution, and that agreement was broken Please direct me to that agreement. I'm dying to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenpsp Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 minute ago, stupid_chris said: Except it's not a business. It's free community work. It's volunteering. It's a free service. There's no engagement between him and the community, and therefore, no need for him to excuse himself. Exactly. But it is not entitlement to feel the way he decided to end it abruptly is giving the community the big finger, which is his right, but is sadly a poor way to go. Hosting plans are generally run at least monthly, so the posted letter could have stated, I'm shutting down the site in XX days/weeks and here is why. I will leave it up until the hosting runs out so people don't need to scramble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoojiwana Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TK421d said: thats not my fault if he did or did not engage, same as its not my fault it was unprofitable and led to his decision to end it. the fact remains there WAS an agreement to host files for distribution, and that agreement was broken From the Kerbal Stuff Terms of Use (mirrored version).: Quote We can remove any content whenever we feel like it for any reason at all, with or without notifying the content owner. Edited February 15, 2016 by hoojiwana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid_chris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, goldenpsp said: Exactly. But it is not entitlement to feel the way he decided to end it abruptly is giving the community the big finger, which is his right, but is sadly a poor way to go. Hosting plans are generally run at least monthly, so the posted letter could have stated, I'm shutting down the site in XX days/weeks and here is why. I will leave it up until the hosting runs out so people don't need to scramble... Oh, it totally is a poor way to go. I won't disagree to it. But in no way is it inexcusable. Is it cool? No. Is it okay? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandalis Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, TK421d said: please, instead tell me why you're so busy trying to kiss his butt and deflect from the problem The burden of proof for your argument is on you, not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421d Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, hoojiwana said: From the Kerbal Stuff Terms of Use (mirrored version).: removing content for reasons of protection, is not the same as terminating all function. regardless, im still never going to curse, so i'm leaving this debacle and going to look for RELIABLE hosting services now. bye Edited February 15, 2016 by TK421d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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