[0.25] Realism Overhaul w/ RedAV8R [Terminated]

[Luscion]

My bad, it was a conflict with mod thats not 100% supported as yet, maybe i should read properly next time. I've now uninstalled it and everything's fine

[NathanKell]

Glad you got it sorted out!

[ANWRocketMan]

I haven't played in a long time but I updated and installed everything again last weekend. I was just busy building a rocket and I seem to be running into a problem: this particular rocket is VASTLY overperforming.

That's a 70,4mT payload. The fairings weight almost 4mT, the fairing base 1,2mT. That's a single RS-68 engine at the bottom(which has full 0% - 100% throttle capability) and the second stage is powered by three RL-10A-4-1/2 engines. The second stage provides 6,800m/s dV. With a small 5m(diameter) x 6m tank. For aproximately 75mT of payload and fairings.

I'm using the newest version of Kerbal Engineer and it works in all other capacities but it could be the problem with wrong calculations. This just seems a little weird to me though.

EDIT: I still don't know quite what the problem is but it is definitively a problem with Kerbal Engineer. It's acting in a most peculiar fashion. Ignore this post then.

[Kitspace]

Hello!

First of all I have found two quite strange things yet that are suspected to be either bugs of some sort or just mistakes in the module manager patch adding files. The first thing is that the Apollo capsule is six metres near the bottom instead of four as it is supposed to be. Maybe that is the reason that its top node is not aligned with the actual hatch on top of it.

And the second thing is that some engines have strange stats. For example the deep throttle capable engine from the post above with its default fuel mixture has a rated thrust of mere five units. By the way are these kilonewtons?

Then do you consider adding more different engines? Some parts from different packs and mods simulate the same engine two or three times while there is a sort of gap between the very very small engines and very big ones especially if you are limited to a certain diameter. Also why is the very nice trick with those huge domes on the engines disappearing inside the tanks gone? Maybe engines with domes should have two attachment nodes to better fit them visually depending on the situation? Do you still have the configs with their coordinates?

Does the mod affect the Hot Rockets in any way?

I have just suddenly noticed in game that some engines burning hydrolox have realistic blue exhaust flames instead of their native orange ones.

And another one question that I would like to ask. I have constructed a launch vehicle tuned for low orbit insertions with a central core of two stages and four side liquid fueled boosters. Its centre of lift point is normally quite far behind its centre of mass during the whole flight and its centre of thrust is aligned and all of its potentially wobbly booster joints are fixed firmly in place with triangle strut constructions. The problem is that in flight under mechjeb control at some point in flight it is becoming progressively wobbly as the control inputs are becoming so aggressive that no obvious deviation exists at all but the controls are just jumping left and right as crazy in a minute the whole rocket is constantly jumping left and right as crazy. What can the reason for this be?

Thank you!

[RedAV8R]

@kitspace:

Apollo...what Apollo. Details kitspace, details. I can't fix something if I don't know what to fix.

Engine stats? What are you talking about? the engine above? The post above? Some magic picture I cant see? I see nothing with 5 units of anything. Yes, thrust is in kN though.

If you want specific engines added, then suggest an engine and a model to go with it.

The 'feature' of nodes to hide the fuel tank on engines has been removed because I don't care for it. I don't care for the fuel tank either, and unfortunately when scaling the engine made that fuel tank huge. If somebody else wants to go though and add nodes to do so, feel free to do it and make a git pull request to add it. It's not tough, but I've got enough on my plate to focus my energy elsewhere.

Do you see HotRockets on the OP list? Did you even look? Must not have, because it's not there. Then first of all it's not supported. Second, if it's not listed then it's not tested either. If it's not tested, then I have NO IDEA if RO affects HotRockets.

I have no idea. You didn't post a log, you didn't post the craft file. You didn't post a darn thing I can use to replicate the issue.

Edited September 29, 2014 by RedAV8R

[Guest]

I'm working (slowly) on a HR patch for RO. It's not supported as of now, though.

[Kitspace]

Posted by mistake.

[Kitspace]

Apollo?

Ah you think of the real life historic parts. Sorry. I mean just the big stock three man command capsule as it is usually considered to represent the Apollo capsule.

I mean the RocketMan post directly above mine. This engine is nothing more than the most obvious example that I can see around in my game. I just could not remember its name exactly but I know that it is the big grey one that has the deep throttle capacity. If I just go and grab this engine from the part list in my game its rated thrust will be five kilonewtons and that means it can hardly lift itself.

I am not suggesting any specific engines to be added but just any engines that could meet the requirements for moderate thrust engines as currently in my opinion there is a too big difference between the engines in the matter of their thrust level.

Sorry what do you mean when saying that scaling the engine made that fuel tank huge? Is that correct that this feature was already implemented from the beginning with the scaled engines?

That is really weird and that is exactly what made me ask this question originally. It is not supposed to have any effect on the visual appearance of course including mods that change visual appearance but strange enough some engines have blue exhaust flames and these are the ones that burn hydrogen. I did not notice this until now so it made me doubt if Realism overhaul is doing this.

The craft probably has a little bit of excessive control authority but the main problem is that something most likely Ferram aerospace research makes mechjeb just use extremely aggressive control inputs with no good reason even with all the anti wobble patches.

Thank you.

[ANWRocketMan]

The engine that can hardly lift itself is based on the RL-10 and was designed for use on the Altair Lunar Lander. On the Moon it has MORE than enough thrust. Use a different engine that's better suited. The RS-68 for example can throttle between 52% and 100%(I think) thrust. That's enough throttle ability for a controlled ascent if you really need it.

The engines are modelled after real-life counterparts. They're exactly as they should be. There's a wide variety of engines already from a large amount of different packs and they suit my needs fine. Try using two low thrust engines. or try @NathanKell's RftS pack for different engines.

I've had that issue with MechJeb since at least 0.18.4. Thus I don't use it. I find especially with RSS and RO and other related mods it becomes unbearable to use most of the time.

If the engines are sized properly with the nodes in the lowered positions as they were before, the mounting on those engines becomes very VERY large in many cases; forcing you to use a very large fuel tank to hide it anyway. Thus it becomes a pointless workaround.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ANWRocketMan

[RedAV8R]

@kitspace:

I don't mean anything. I'm asking you for details. You said the Apollo, that's pretty vague statement when this mod touches at least 3 replicas plus countless other pods that some lay person can call "Apollo". When I ask for details. I mean use the name found in the VAB and what mod/pack it originally comes from. Something like "the stock Mk1-2 Command Pod" is what I am looking for. Is this what you mean? If it is, then no, the bottom is not 6m. Not with RO it isn't. Bet you have some other unsupported mod installed that changes things, or have installed something wrong.

Since I still have absolutely NO IDEA what engine you are talking about because of your lack of details. The only RS-68 found in RO (by my count) is one found in the AIES pack, and no. It's not 5kN. Again, you've got something installed that is unsupported or installed something wrong. FWIW, look at the picture you are talking about stated plain as day 3,552kN. This is your problem, not ROs.

Engines in general. So you are going to whine, but not do anything constructive to fix it. Considering your first two points are showing a botched or unsupported install, chances are once things are corrected, you'll see this isn't the case.

Included engines in RO range from RCS of all flavors, from 0.5N thrusters to 8000kN RD-170 series engines and everything in between. There are over 100 different types of liquid, electric, nuclear and solid engines now included with RO. Where exactly is there a gap that needs filled? It may be your opinion, but unless you have something to back up your claim or more details of exactly what you are looking for I can't help you. If you have a favorite that I'm missing, then by all means let me know. Here is an idea...check out THIS PAGE. The list is vastly incomplete, but there is a wide variety on it of all shapes and power levels. If there is one there you like, or want to have, then let me know.

It was a 'feature' of the previous versions of RealEngines by SFJackBauer. Since RO now contains remnants of RealEngines, it's not anymore. Tank bloat is bad, no way around it without actually removing it from the model, which is required by the one who made it. I recommend using engines that don't have tank boat at all. ANWRocketMan hit the nail on the head when it comes to why I removed what was there and didn't add it to anything new.

I have no idea. Not my problem. Read the OP.

Effects: As comprehensive as this mod is, I have not, and am not working on effects. This includes engines and any other part. This means that effects for some engines aren't going to match what they actually look like. If somebody wants to start working on them, please PM me, get a git account, and issue pull requests as you work on them.

As Dragon01 stated, he's working on something, but his work in this regard is not included with RO at this time.

You can wildly propose theories as to why something is broken all day long. This thread isn't the place for it without details, logs, and examples provided to test. I can't help you.

Edited September 29, 2014 by RedAV8R

[O Nerd]

O Nerd: Yes, that *is* for RSS. That's why it's not the original link.

However, it hasn't been updated for v7.

Instead, you should use Trigger Au's Transfer Window Planner, which is that, but ingame.

My god, how did i not see that "For RSS"? I'm so dumb. Well, thanks Lilienthal and Nathan!

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

First off thanks to all involved for the hard work on this (now essential) mod, and second, apologies if this has already been asked but here goes; are there any plans to add waste heat management, or does anyone know if KSP-I (Plugin only) can be used safely?

[NathanKell]

RealHeat is a WIP right now, waiting to replace Deadly Reentry.

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

Ok, thanks. Will new parts e.g. heat exchanger/radiators be included?

[Kitspace]

Right at the moment of wrighting this I am starting to install right everything again from scratch exactly following your instructions step by step. Let us see if this helps with this in any way. I really hope it helps to sort it out but I can not think of a reason for the previous install to be botched simply because it was done using the same procedure from the original post.

[Kitspace]

Unfortunately it did not help much.

I will add details and logs in a few minutes.

[Kitspace]

So here are the details on the problems experienced.

I suppose that some mods have updated since the patches were made or there are some mistakes in the configs.

All the mods are installed exactly as instructed in the original post in order of appearance there and of course all of them are from the supported list.

All the mods installed here have been downloaded today no more than a few hours ago from their respective forum threads.

The install includes all of the recomended and required mods and some of the supported part packs.

Here is the log that was obtained after starting the game up and getting these pictures.

Both links are the same file just a mirror.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/jr3fp4

http://www.filedropper.com/outputlog

Edited September 30, 2014 by Kitspace

[RedAV8R]

Got one of your logs. Your install contains unsupported material. Support denied.

Edited September 30, 2014 by RedAV8R

[Kitspace]

What is the unsupported material in my install exactly?

Does the docking alignment indicator gauge count?

Is it really able to break anything?

I already told you that all these mods are from the list in the original post and are obtained by clicking the links there.

I am not interested in telling you something that is not true at least to the best of my knowledge and belief and I have no reason to do so. By the way did you first see this post before the log was added on top?

Edited September 30, 2014 by Kitspace

[Kitspace]

Also I can post some pictures of my current game data folder and the folder that I was downloading mods into.

[RedAV8R]

The simple fact is the troubleshooting directions direct you to install the required material and those on the OP list only. You failed to follow those instructions. I don't care what it is. Does it break anything, I don't know. It doesn't matter. ITS NOT ON THE LIST. You came here for help. I instructed you to follow directions. You didn't.

You are right though there have been a lot of updates since the last release. I'm putting final touches on one or two things. Give me 30-45min and there will be a new release posted. Delete your current RealismOverhaul folder and reinstall. REMOVE EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT ON THE LIST. Retest. Let me know.

For space concerns and easier reading learn to edit/add to previous posts. There is an "edit post" button by the reply, reply with quote buttons by every post.

FWIW, now that you have given me details about what engine you were having issues with, you are right, the min/max was swapped. That has been corrected now.

Edited September 30, 2014 by RedAV8R

[RedAV8R]

NEW RELEASE!!!

v6.0 ALPHA 13 \/

*Added AVC Support

*Updated MM to v2.3.5

*Added KAS Support

*Added Kethane Support

*Added SpacePlane Plus Support - Will be updated as necessary with inclusion into KSP 0.25

*Added ScanSAT Support

*Added Romfarer Robotic Arms & Lazor Support

*Added KerbalGPS Support

*Added KerbX Support

*Added RLA Support back (now v11.2)

*Added TaurusHCV Support

*Added SDHI Service Module Support

*Added AerojetKerbodyne v3.* Support

*More KlockheedMartian Update/Fixes

*Reworked Stock Pyrios Booster

*RCS Added to multiple crew pods

*Deadly ReEntry Update/Fixes

*NovaPunch2 Fixes

*Universal Storage Fixes

*TACLS Updates/Fixes

*RemoteTech2 Update/Fixes

*AIES Probe Update/Fixes

[Kitspace]

When you say the list do you mean the supported list or just the essentially required mods list?

If you mean that I should remove everything but the essential ones even if it is in the supported packs list then no problem.

Of course I will do it just it was not yet clear for me that you want me to remove the supported ones also.

Sorry.

It seems to work with the absolutely required and highly recomended mods but one of the supported mods brakes the stock capsule and some of the supported ones work weirdly themselves.

[RedAV8R]

Which list isn't the problem. You installed multiple things that WASN'T ON ANY OF THE LISTS. You've got new instructions. Follow them. Use your head. Now obviously you can't test a part if you don't install it. If it says supported, then it's supported, and a proper bug report is nice.

[Motokid600]

Grats on the new release. I'll have to update asap. Here's hoping the savegame survives ( but if not whatever ). Question.. you say Romfarer is now supported? How does RSS play with an increased load distance? Are there any known significant bugs by chance?