[0.25] Realism Overhaul w/ RedAV8R [Terminated]

[jrandom]

Are the unsupported mods not working or just unchecked? (I know I shouldn't come here bitching if they don't work, dont worry)

My experience has been that they seem to work, but be prepared for the occasional wackyness.

[FennexFox]

I don't want to be an idiot but I can't find information: my vernor uses common rss fuels, such as helium or something. Is it intended or "real" thing?

[tmikesecrist3]

Hey not to complain. Its not to see it out, But I noticed something really odd. I have not tried this form any other Launch sites but I tried launching form the Site in TX and well Things seem to work fine at the Default site. A few sec after launch the I get a change View message to the sun and the screen goes black, and even going back to the space port just shows the hud and a black screen... Not sure if this is RO that is causing the issue or RSS. As I have not tried other launch sites with out RO

[RedAV8R]

I don't want to be an idiot but I can't find information: my vernor uses common rss fuels, such as helium or something. Is it intended or "real" thing?

The stock "Vernor Engine" is set up as an RCS thruster. It's that simple. Through RealFuels you are allowed to change it to a number of fuel possibilities. Helium is included in that list. It can also be HTP, Hydrazine, NitrousOxide, Nitrogen, MMH+NTO, UDMH+NTO, and Aerozine+NTO. All exist in the real world.

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Hey not to complain. Its not to see it out, But I noticed something really odd. I have not tried this form any other Launch sites but I tried launching form the Site in TX and well Things seem to work fine at the Default site. A few sec after launch the I get a change View message to the sun and the screen goes black, and even going back to the space port just shows the hud and a black screen... Not sure if this is RO that is causing the issue or RSS. As I have not tried other launch sites with out RO

RO has absolutely nothing to do with launch sites.

[FennexFox]

The stock "Vernor Engine" is set up as an RCS thruster. It's that simple. Through RealFuels you are allowed to change it to a number of fuel possibilities. Helium is included in that list. It can also be HTP, Hydrazine, NitrousOxide, Nitrogen, MMH+NTO, UDMH+NTO, and Aerozine+NTO. All exist in the real world.

My god, I had a typo. I meant that "Vernor" use "RCS" feul, not "Engine" fuel. I installed all RO mods, and surely use Real Fuel. I knew Vernor is bipropellant RCS, not monopropellant, so I thought It should use "Engine" fuel rather then "RCS" fuel. That`s why I asked. As I read your reply, it seems intended to use "RCS" fuel.

[RedAV8R]

My god, I had a typo. I meant that "Vernor" use "RCS" feul, not "Engine" fuel. I installed all RO mods, and surely use Real Fuel. I knew Vernor is bipropellant RCS, not monopropellant, so I thought It should use "Engine" fuel rather then "RCS" fuel. That`s why I asked. As I read your reply, it seems intended to use "RCS" fuel.

There is nothing odd. There is a section in the FAQ about forgetting what you have 'learned' with stock KSP. This is one of those things. There is no such thing as "RCS" fuel and "engine" fuel. RCS thrusters ARE engines. Some engines use one fuel (a monopropellant - which simply means ONE propellant) that is simply exhausted out a port providing thrust, sometimes as a 'cold gas', sometimes passed over a substance that reacts in some way to increase their velocity. Some engines require a fuel and an oxidizer that burn, either on contact (hypergolic), or as a sustained reaction providing some method of igniting that fuel initially. RCS (and ACS) is simply a name given to a set of engines which provide attitude and/or translation control of a vessel.

My suggestion to you is forget everything that stock KSP has 'taught' you, and do some research about real world spacecraft, propulsion, techniques, etc.

[Einkleinermensch]

Hmm, there are some issues with NearFuturePropulsion: loading freezes on ionArgon-0625 with this code:

[LOG 17:10:41.810] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'NearFuturePropulsion/Parts/Engines/ionArgon-0625/ionArgon-0625/ionArgon-0625'

[WRN 17:10:41.820] PartLoader Warning: Variable RSSROConfig not found in Part

[LOG 17:10:41.823] ArgonGas not found in resource database. Propellant Setup has failed.

But previous version of RO loads just fine. The ArgonGas is defined in "Resourses" folder of NFP. What could I do to fix this?

[RedAV8R]

Einkleinermensch

What could I do to fix this?

Read and comprehend.

[FennexFox]

There is nothing odd. There is a section in the FAQ about forgetting what you have 'learned' with stock KSP. This is one of those things. There is no such thing as "RCS" fuel and "engine" fuel. RCS thrusters ARE engines. Some engines use one fuel (a monopropellant - which simply means ONE propellant) that is simply exhausted out a port providing thrust, sometimes as a 'cold gas', sometimes passed over a substance that reacts in some way to increase their velocity. Some engines require a fuel and an oxidizer that burn, either on contact (hypergolic), or as a sustained reaction providing some method of igniting that fuel initially. RCS (and ACS) is simply a name given to a set of engines which provide attitude and/or translation control of a vessel.

My suggestion to you is forget everything that stock KSP has 'taught' you, and do some research about real world spacecraft, propulsion, techniques, etc.

Thank you for teaching me. This is why I got fascinated into RO that "What RO gives you is real world thing!", but sometimes it is hard to me to tell something is intended feature or just a mishap. I read the whole post several times with admiration, but it`s still hard...

I knew that RCS and Engine is actually same thing, which use Newton`s Third Law to propell something, but I thought that Verner Thruster is a special RCS that shares bipropellatn with main engine. Now it`s clear that it isn`t. Big Thanks!

[tmikesecrist3]

I do like RO my self, I just wish I had the skills to add better Career mode support. I dont think prices would really have to be fixed as long as there Reasonable with the level of funds, I get board quickly playing in a sand box....

[Einkleinermensch]

So, the issue was in a file "RO_RealFuels_NewFuel.cfg", changing Argon to ArgonGas and removing string "@name = Argon" makes game load.

[tmikesecrist3]

oh RedAV8R It seems my problem with the weirdness has to to with RO because with out RO Launches work fine.. and it dont matter where from I find this really odd........O.o

[RedAV8R]

oh RedAV8R It seems my problem with the weirdness has to to with RO because with out RO Launches work fine.. and it dont matter where from I find this really odd........O.o

Would appreciate a proper bug report and I can look into this.

I understand what is happening, but I need as many details as I can get to replicate and potentially fix this.

[Hattivat]

but I thought that Verner Thruster is a special RCS that shares bipropellatn with main engine. Now it`s clear that it isn`t. Big Thanks!

I don't want to undermine RedAV8R's authority here, but to my knowledge that's what they actually are, at least in the most well-known cases (Atlas and R-7 - both burned Kerosene+LOX). I think what RedAV8R meant was a more general "stop thinking in these categories because they are artificial", which is totally right.

[RedAV8R]

So, the issue was in a file "RO_RealFuels_NewFuel.cfg", changing Argon to ArgonGas and removing string "@name = Argon" makes game load.

NO, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. The right way is to WAIT until NearFuture is ACTUALLY SUPPORTED! As I so gracefully posted a link to the OP and told you to READ AND COMPREHEND. IF YOU HAD, you would find that NearFuture IS NOT SUPPORTED... YET. Which means that even though the game loads, you will notice that every part of NearFuture specifically states "NON RO", and the description states the same. Support will happen when the NearFuture files are updated to reflect the changes we have made standard for 0.25. By making the changes you have, you certainly will cause issues with later releases, up to and including ruining that perfect save you have brewing.

[RedAV8R]

I don't want to undermine RedAV8R's authority here, but to my knowledge that's what they actually are, at least in the most well-known cases (Atlas and R-7 - both burned Kerosene+LOX). I think what RedAV8R meant was a more general "stop thinking in these categories because they are artificial", which is totally right.

A vernier engine/thruster is simply an engine used primarily to make fine adjustments in velocity and trajectory. The R7 series and Atlas indeed have engines whose main purpose is to provide attitude control. While they certainly can be fueled from the same source as a main engine there is no requirement that they do so in order to fit that definition.

My point was that there is no such thing as "RCS fuel" (named Monopropellant in game), and "Engine fuel" (named LiquidFuel/Oxidizer in game). IRL, everything is an engine, and all engines use some type of fuel. That's it. Every engine has a specific purpose (or multiple) and generally what type of fuel and/or oxidizer used though is mostly irrelevant, besides obtaining the necessary thrust and efficiency required for it's purpose.

[NathanKell]

It's worth noting that the Vernor in KSP isn't a vernier. That's why it's not called one.

In fact, if anything the 24-77 is the closest thing KSP has to a vernier, though it needs a lot more gimbal range. Which might be why RO makes it a vernier.

[coldblade2000]

Hey, could you clarify what this means?

Q: What happened to nodes to hide the tank bloat on engines? Are you going to add them back?

A: They were removed, and no I'm not planning on it.

What do you mean by nodes? What is it talking about?

[RedAV8R]

Hey, could you clarify what this means?

Q: What happened to nodes to hide the tank bloat on engines? Are you going to add them back?

A: They were removed, and no I'm not planning on it.

What do you mean by nodes? What is it talking about?

It means, if you don't understand it, it doesn't apply to you, and you should continue doing what you were doing. Old 'trick' that was removed.

[tmikesecrist3]

I think I found my problem, its an issue with FASA, Which I know your not supporting at this time, Though other then RSS and RO is my favort mod... and strangely enough it seems to happen with the Exporer probe, or maybe its the sgt rockets... I wish I had the skills the help, but since I have no idea how to begin trouble shooting this, let me just say I hope you can start offering support to it again soon... I do wish ksp updates would stop braking every thing

[RedAV8R]

I think I found my problem, its an issue with FASA, Which I know your not supporting at this time, Though other then RSS and RO is my favort mod... and strangely enough it seems to happen with the Exporer probe, or maybe its the sgt rockets... I wish I had the skills the help, but since I have no idea how to begin trouble shooting this, let me just say I hope you can start offering support to it again soon... I do wish ksp updates would stop braking every thing

You can help by trouble shooting, following the steps as outlined in the OP.

[Hattivat]

My point was that there is no such thing as "RCS fuel" (named Monopropellant in game), and "Engine fuel" (named LiquidFuel/Oxidizer in game). IRL, everything is an engine, and all engines use some type of fuel. That's it. Every engine has a specific purpose (or multiple) and generally what type of fuel and/or oxidizer used though is mostly irrelevant, besides obtaining the necessary thrust and efficiency required for it's purpose.

Yeah, so basically what I thought you meant. I totally agree.

It's worth noting that the Vernor in KSP isn't a vernier. That's why it's not called one.

In fact, if anything the 24-77 is the closest thing KSP has to a vernier, though it needs a lot more gimbal range. Which might be why RO makes it a vernier.

Ah, that's the crucial bit of info that I was lacking there. I have yet to use the "vernor" in RO, so I just assumed it would be some form of a vernier there. My bad.

What do you mean by nodes?

Nodes are the green bubles that you use to attach things to other things in VAB. Old versions of Realism Overhaul used to modify them in a way that made the ugly cupolas that most engine models in KSP have above them disappear inside the fuel tank. This was discontinued for practical reasons, I think.

[coldblade2000]

Ohh, the trick of putting top engine nodes inside engines? Yea, I remember that, just couldn't relate the two.

Too bad it's gone, but I can see why

[FennexFox]

It's worth noting that the Vernor in KSP isn't a vernier. That's why it's not called one.

In fact, if anything the 24-77 is the closest thing KSP has to a vernier, though it needs a lot more gimbal range. Which might be why RO makes it a vernier.

Ah, now everything is REALLY clear. Hyper thanks!

Edited October 17, 2014 by FennexFox

[Guest]

What does one need to do in order to bring a previously accurate and working pack (like FASA) to the new standard? Is it just a matter of renaming fuels?