[0.25] Realism Overhaul w/ RedAV8R [Terminated]

[smartdummies]

Quick question. I downloaded this last week to see if I could build a rocket, launch it into orbit, and bring my poor Kerbals back alive. At that time TAC-LS was listed as highly recommended and now it says required. Did anything change (the version is still the same) or was it listed incorrectly and changed to the correct category? I have not yet had any issues running RO (other then killing all my Kerbals) an thought I should ask before I try a moon landing and have it go all bonkers on me due to a missing mod.

Also, you might want to change Procedural Parts to highly recommend (I tried with a minimal install and found that I kinda needed it) and also note that for KWR Procedural Fairings should be used as the auto fairings were removed and the interstage fairings are not working well with the resized engines.

[RedAV8R]

We are converting the stock Generator to TAC-LS because of a bug in the stock version. So it'll be required in order to have essential things like life support based on LOX use.

Procedural Parts. That's a dandy idea. Should have done that a while ago. Yes, I need to figure out what to do with KW fairings.

[smartdummies]

So without TAC-LS my Kerbals will still die if I can manage to launch them to orbit without killing them due to g forces . I was hoping that without it they would not die due to lack of food/water/air as for me this adds the least to the game (no new functionality or machanics) and just feels like micro managing. I just wanted to have my cake and eat it too.

[RedAV8R]

It's called REALISM Overhaul for a reason.

[NathanKell]

If you dedicate only a few hundred kg per person, you don't have to worry for like a month. If you're planning on voyages longer than a month, or colonies, then it's something to worry about.

[Hattivat]

Well, the way it adds to the game is by adding to the challenge since it increases the mass that you need to launch for interplanetary missions. For any non-interplanetary missions it's impact is negligible, so there is really no reason not to use it - for simple LEO missions the default amount of TAC supplies that Realism Overhaul adds to all pods is perfectly sufficient, for moon missions all you need is a small (and light) container of supplies, and only with long-term stay at space stations the weight of supplies starts to get substantial, and even then it's still tiny in comparison to the weight of the space station itself. What's more, the supplies in TAC never spoil, so you can just send a 10-years worth supply of food to the space station and never have to think about supplying it again.

But if you really don't want it to kill your kerbals, you can just disable that option in TAC LS settings. This way you can "have your cake and eat it too".

[smartdummies]

@RedAV8R - I completely understand. I just had a quick glimmer of hope that I didn't need it.

@Hattivat - Thanks!! Glimmer of hope still alive. (Poor Jeb isn't. Killed again by g force. Revert to launch is my favorite feature).

I am not giving up on this yet, I still want to see if I can get a survivable re-entry and then maybe I can land on the moon.

EDIT: Hattivat, they don't spoil yet. The nature of this thread almost guarantees that functionality will be added at some point. I would think that the launch date of the supplies could be persisted and then food (and water? does water go bad?) could be checked and the amount of supplies would be reduced to 0 if it expires.

Edited September 27, 2014 by smartdummies

[RedAV8R]

Spoilage of resources would have to be coded into a plugin or the TAC plugin itself. Water doesn't go bad as long as storage is good. Some storage materials will leach into the water, poisoning it, or otherwise giving it a foul taste. Food generally depends on how it's prepared and stored. Freeze dried food will last years/decades. ISS food (think MREs) if needed could likely last at least a year or two too. When it comes down to it, it's the weight concerns for long duration missions that require thought.

[Hattivat]

IIRC with freeze dried food it mainly depends on what kind of food it is. From what I remember reading when I was researching the topic of long-term life support, with most foods once you get over the 2-3 years mark, the astronaut-reported levels of "acceptability" start to drop rather rapidly. This usually does not mean that this food becomes dangerous for health, just that it becomes too disgusting to willingly eat. Which is hugely important considering that astronauts on missions tend to eat too little due to reduced appetite.

[RedAV8R]

Regardless, it's not implemented, and it won't be on this end unless it's added to TAC itself.

On the otherhand...with RF, and the fact that resources are integrated with that...using the 'boil-off' feature of RF we can gradually decrease life support resources w/o them being consumed by TAC.

[NathanKell]

Ooooh, yes.

[tater]

Unrelated to development, I orbited last night after much trial and error (I guess I need mechjeb to see dv while building).

On Topic, it might be nice to have a couple .craft files in there that give examples (only "stock" stuff in the mod, nothing even "very highly recommended"---if such is required, make those mods required). Perhaps a simple satellite with launcher, and maybe even a manned ship.

Actually, he's an idea for your current outline of "required" vs recommended for noobs.

Perhaps Required is annotated to say that it's the minimal required to function properly, and then the next tier is the minimum required to actually play with a halfway decent user experience ("Required for acceptable gameplay"). When I installed, I decided to try the minimum first, partially concerned about possible performance issues. If 10 of the "recommended" mods had been "Required for acceptable gameplay" I'd have installed them as my minimum, if that makes sense.

I might add more mods in on your list, I'd just like a clear install picture (which I now think is "all of it" ).

Edited September 27, 2014 by tater

[NathanKell]

Sounds good to me. Might want to wait a little bit for the new RF, which will work tweakscaling tanks (apologies for delay). Then you can tweakscale up the stock tanks as needed.

[tater]

On the gameplay side, Squad's notion of "trial and error" to orbit in the stock game never worked for me (I only ever killed any astronauts later due to a warp mistake on one, and not knowing I couldn't reenter 2 craft at once for the other. RSS/RO, OTOH, I actually had the "blowing up rockets" experience that people talk about for stock that never happened for me (even in stock with DRe, FAR, etc).

I searched for a craft repository, but they all seemed to be more complex than I wanted for basic, minimal craft that work in RSS as benchmarks.

[peter.alfredsen]

@RedAV8R: It wouldn't really be acceptable to just have it boil off -- mass needs to go somewhere. With TAC, it should be slowly converted to waste. Perhaps install a Food->Waste TACLS converter into each ship that gradually lets food decay?

[tater]

Waste that is not recycled can be spaced, no need to store it. Urine vented to space was apparently pretty to watch according to a story I read (might have been from Skylab).

While I realize it is certainly more "realistic" in some sense to track each life support need, I think I'd ideally want a somewhat simpler version that folds all the various LS needs into "man-days of LS" (man-hours, man-minutes, whatever) and have it be easier to plan with a little less micro-managing. Obviously others will have a different preference.

[O Nerd]

Hi.

Is there any good soul out there that could indicate phase angles for Hohmann Transfers?

Or does Kerbal Engineer auto-correct itself and calculate it?

[smartdummies]

One last thought on spoilage - the spoilage should be a conversion (food -> waste) rather that just a "boil-off" of the food resource.

[NathanKell]

That seems like something to bring up on the TACLS thread.

[samroberts]

I have had problems with TAC-LS none of TAC parts will show up but the plugin will function properly. I have everything updated, help please.

[RedAV8R]

I have had problems with TAC-LS none of TAC parts will show up but the plugin will function properly. I have everything updated, help please.

Follow the steps as outlined in the OP. Great chance you installed TAC wrong. Make sure you precisely follow installation procedures of TAC itself. Folder path should be > KSP/GameData/ThunderAerospace followed by about 5 different TacLifeSupport* folders.

[Lilienthal]

Hi.

Is there any good soul out there that could indicate phase angles for Hohmann Transfers?

Or does Kerbal Engineer auto-correct itself and calculate it?

Would this help? https://abrhmsanchez.github.io/ksp/

[O Nerd]

I mean, for RSS.

[Luscion]

i'm relatively new ( so don't bite my head off ) to Realism Overhaul and I've been trying to recreate the Saturn V rocket but I've noticed the stages for this don't have the options for liquid hydrogen or kerosene which is what the real thing used, i do have real fuels installed. Am i missing something or is this the way its supposed to be?

Also is it better to play RO in career or sandbox mode?

Edited September 29, 2014 by Luscion

[NathanKell]

O Nerd: Yes, that *is* for RSS. That's why it's not the original link.

However, it hasn't been updated for v7.

Instead, you should use Trigger Au's Transfer Window Planner, which is that, but ingame.

Luscion: Do you have everything the OP of this thread says you require?