MH17- bad year for Malaysian airlines

[SpaceXray]

By now you must've heard the news. Putting a link here is useless since you can tune in to any channel right now. The incident is very interesting by itself-what kind of AA missile is required to get something 11km high? How did the rebels get sophisticated weaponry like that? It is rumored that Russia supplied the missiles launch system to the rebels. Could this lead to new tension between the US and Russia? Who is responsible? Share your thoughts and your latest info here!

It is quite funny how when something good happens, like a Cygnus cargo ship launching no one gives a damn, but when bad news happen all the news channels want to snatch the story first and get loads of viewers by rolling the same thing again and again all day...

[xrayfishx]

what kind of AA missile is required to get something 11km high?

It's said to be the Buk missile system.

How did the rebels get sophisticated weaponry like that? It is rumored that Russia supplied the missiles launch system to the rebels.

They captured it from Ukraine according to what I've read.

[Kryten]

The incident is very interesting by itself-what kind of AA missile is required to get something 11km high? How did the rebels get sophisticated weaponry like that?

That's within range of newer marks of the Igla shoulder-launched missile; and we know already know they've been supplied those due to the two shootdown incidents on Ukrainian transport aircraft.

[Aghanim]

Another shootdown? Really? First the KAL 007 and then this

[Godot]

It's said to be the Buk missile system.

They captured it from Ukraine according to what I've read.

Seems like both is possible ... either they got it from the russians, or from the capture of an ukrainian airfield a short while ago.

Officially the downing still seems to be classified as an accident, till the contrary is proven (like debris of the SAM that will be found within the debris of the airplane, or any Satellite-recordings of the incidents that show a missile nearing the plane).

Also, officially it is still unclear, if it was a misile, if it was fied by separatists, ukrainian or russian forces ... although there are strong indices that point to the separatists

[SpaceXray]

That's within range of newer marks of the Igla shoulder-launched missile; and we know already know they've been supplied those due to the two shootdown incidents on Ukrainian transport aircraft.

I read a few months ago that they got Igla's, but I doubted they have an effective range of 10+ km. I mean, the Igla is comparatively small and I've seen it used mostly against low-flying helis.

[Kryten]

It'd be marginal, but a passenger jet is hardly going to be pulling evasive maneuvers.

[Jouni]

The flight ceiling of Igla is 3.5 km, while passenger jets usually fly at 10-12 km.

[lajoswinkler]

If it was a missile, people would've seen it climbing into the air, and they'd see it collide with the airplane. Explosion would occur, and a lot of smoke would linger up there.

Eyewitnesses report seeing the plane breaking up into two pieces and then it all fell on the ground where it created a fireball.

This looks more like there was a bomb inside the plane. Once the structural integrity of the aluminium tube planes are made of is severely compromised, aerodynamic properties are lost the the vehicle tears apart. It has happened numerous times during the history of terrorist attacks.

I'd like to know where is the evidence of a missile.

I don't see it, and you can't hide something like that. I'm actually baffled because nobody is questioning this.

[Aphox]

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eyewitnesses report seeing the plane breaking up into two pieces and then it all fell on the ground where it created a fireball.

That's just the thing; most of what we know right now is 'eyewitness reports' and media of the aftermath. Nobody has any actual evidence of what happened before that flight went down (correct me if I'm wrong). All we can really do is speculate until we have more information.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Aphox

[lajoswinkler]

That's just the thing; most of what we know right now is 'eyewitness reports' and media of the aftermath. Nobody has any actual evidence of what happened before that flight went down (correct me if I'm wrong). All we can really do is speculate until we have more information.

That is true, however I don't see anyone ever mentioning they saw a missile. I was watching CNN few hours after it had happened and they were careful about such statements. Only the yellow press and officials of two countries are honking "missile!" like mad.

I was also watching an interview with some military-something-expert and he said the chances of this being a missile fired from the ground is very, very small. First of all, nobody saw it, second, the radar beacon of civilian airplanes is visible to any equipment capable of striking it, and third, nobody has profit from such act.

I'll stick with the bomb scenario because it's the most probable thing. When I see evidence for the missile, I'll accept it.

ps: I agree with the moderation, let's not turn this into political thread. The attack is shameful and sad, but let's discuss the actual details and not politics.

[ZedNova]

That is true, however I don't see anyone ever mentioning they saw a missile. I was watching CNN few hours after it had happened and they were careful about such statements. Only the yellow press and officials of two countries are honking "missile!" like mad.

I was also watching an interview with some military-something-expert and he said the chances of this being a missile fired from the ground is very, very small. First of all, nobody saw it, second, the radar beacon of civilian airplanes is visible to any equipment capable of striking it, and third, nobody has profit from such act.

I'll stick with the bomb scenario because it's the most probable thing. When I see evidence for the missile, I'll accept it.

ps: I agree with the moderation, let's not turn this into political thread. The attack is shameful and sad, but let's discuss the actual details and not politics.

It's also possible that a few Boeing 777's have some sort of defect, flight 370 and flight 17 were both 777's.

Has anyone recovered the black box from flight 17?

[SelectHalfling0]

Although nobody seems to know who really shot down the plane (or if it was shot down), Ukraine did intercept unconfirmed radio traffic of celebrations from rebels, thinking they had shot down a govt jet, followed by rebels saying they hit a civilian jet.

[shadowsutekh]

It's also possible that a few Boeing 777's have some sort of defect, flight 370 and flight 17 were both 777's.

Has anyone recovered the black box from flight 17?

Edited July 18, 2014 by shadowsutekh

[Kryten]

Obama is now reporting that plane was definitely brought down by missile fired from separatist-held areas.

[lajoswinkler]

It's also possible that a few Boeing 777's have some sort of defect, flight 370 and flight 17 were both 777's.

Has anyone recovered the black box from flight 17?

[Kryten]

It might be worth noting Russian statements have blamed Ukraine as 'it's their airspace' or because they're 'responsible for the unrest'. Only separatists groups have accused Ukraine of actually downing the plane.

[Bekiekutmoar]

It's probably the Russian rebels in the eastern Ukraine, backed by the Russian government, and equipment supplied by the Russian army. It's impossible to take down an airliner from 10 km with a 'simple' anti-air missile.

[Motokid600]

Visually... Is it possible to mistake a passenger jet with a military jet?

[cpast]

Visually... Is it possible to mistake a passenger jet with a military jet?

Certainly. Military transport aircraft often use the same kinds of airframes as civilian passenger planes.

[Motokid600]

Well.. how would the plane have been targeted? Would it have been visual? "Look there's a plane let's shoot it down" Or.. did the people who fired the missle even see the plane? Using radar..

[Neal]

Really? First the KAL 007 and then this

Don't forget the United States' shootdown of Iran Air 665. People here in the US have been quick to forget it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[shadowsutekh]

As aphox stated on the first page:

Important Moderation Team Note - Please Read Before Posting

Sorry about the brief disappearance of the thread, folks--

This is a highly sensitive topic, and as you all know, we just can't have discussions of political or conspiratorial nature here on the KSP forums. After some discussion among the team, we've decided to drop this thread back in and let discussion continue. However, as stated, this is a sensitive topic. Any and all posts of political or conspiratorial nature will be promptly removed, and repeated posts will be followed with punitive measures.

You can find the official forum rules here. Check before you post.

Feel free to watch the news elsewhere on the internet though.