Loren Pechtel Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, magico13 said: Hmm, weird that it sounds like RealChutes is working but sometimes not (hey, they added a face for that finally!) Could be RealChute itself I guess... Btw, for stages that are burning up like they'll now do a "reentry" burn if they're controlled. Same mechanics as powered recovery, but it'll first drop the speed to the DRMaxVelocity setting to avoid burning up. I'm wondering if it fails to do the retroburn perhaps it's not then rolling the dice on survival? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Loren Pechtel said: I'm wondering if it fails to do the retroburn perhaps it's not then rolling the dice on survival? Either way you wouldn't have such high terminal velocities listed. It maybe could be calculating them backwards, I had that happening in development but I fixed it. Basically it would calculate with parachutes correctly, then recalculate for the burn (since Vt was calculated before change of burning up previously) and change the terminal velocity to be ~2000. The log would confirm that, since the two calculations have very clear debug messages. I'll try to test that again tonight I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 36 minutes ago, magico13 said: Either way you wouldn't have such high terminal velocities listed. It maybe could be calculating them backwards, I had that happening in development but I fixed it. Basically it would calculate with parachutes correctly, then recalculate for the burn (since Vt was calculated before change of burning up previously) and change the terminal velocity to be ~2000. The log would confirm that, since the two calculations have very clear debug messages. I'll try to test that again tonight I guess. The 2000+ m/s velocity is what I would expect had the dropped stage come in ballistically with no drag. I set things up for it to come off about as late as it could and still fall back on Kerbin and get recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebs_SY Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Can it be, that just the real chute setup in this vehicle is flawed? Loren, could you try remove all chutes, (save, load) and add them again? Or maybe use another type of chutes? Maybe the stock radials and test again? EDIT: Oh, didn't noticed that there was another page on this thread, already... so you both are maybe already on a trace... Edited January 25, 2017 by Jebs_SY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) On 1/25/2017 at 3:28 PM, Jebs_SY said: Can it be, that just the real chute setup in this vehicle is flawed? Loren, could you try remove all chutes, (save, load) and add them again? Or maybe use another type of chutes? Maybe the stock radials and test again? EDIT: Oh, didn't noticed that there was another page on this thread, already... so you both are maybe already on a trace... I just replaced the RealChutes with LET chutes--the stage recovered as it should. Next bird I'll put the RealChutes back on and see what happens. Followup: I put the RealChutes back on--this time the second stage burned in an 2029.15 m/s. Edited January 28, 2017 by Loren Pechtel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 On 1/26/2017 at 8:45 PM, Loren Pechtel said: Followup: I put the RealChutes back on--this time the second stage burned in an 2029.15 m/s. Does it actually say it burned up? Logs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, magico13 said: Does it actually say it burned up? Logs? No--it says it hit at that velocity. Anything over 2000 m/s with RealChutes and it tries to retrofire (and can't) and that's it. Given how close to 2000 m/s it is it just might be coincidence about the RealChutes but I don't really think so. Unfortunately, when the chutes work I don't see the velocity so I can't be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkov Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Loren Pechtel said: No--it says it hit at that velocity. Anything over 2000 m/s with RealChutes and it tries to retrofire (and can't) and that's it. Given how close to 2000 m/s it is it just might be coincidence about the RealChutes but I don't really think so. Unfortunately, when the chutes work I don't see the velocity so I can't be sure. I've actually had this happen a few times with the latest version of StageRecovery with stock parachute modules. It seems like if the debris is moving faster than 2000 m/s when it's deleted, the parachutes aren't taken into account. I'll try to get a stock + StageRecovery-only log for you tonight. I was using Necrobones' LET parachutes before, but I don't think that's the issue (since StageRecovery used them to recover other debris on the same launch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkov Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Okay, I took a fresh download of KSP 1.2.2 plus the latest version of StageRecovery (plus MM and AVC) and made a small vessel that goes to LKO and back. Two boosters are jettisoned at around 12km up and are recovered fine (well, one crashed into the other, but StageRecovery worked) the next stage was jettisoned at the border between the atmosphere and space while the vessel was on a suborbital trajectory (AP of about 80 km) and StageRecovery reports that it was not recovered because it was travelling at ~2140 m/s. It shows there were 3 parachutes on board, but it doesn't look like it tried to use them. The message also does not mention the stage burning up. When I came back down, I jettisoned another stage on a suborbital trajectory. This one is not recovered, but SR reports that it was travelling at ~2250 m/s and it DID burn up. Not a huge issue, since it's easy enough for me to simply assume the second stage might have burned up, but I found it odd that SR doesn't say the second stage burned up, but the third stage did. Again, this is using stock parachutes, not RealChutes, so I can't say if this is related to @Loren Pechtel's issue, but it sounds similar. Here is a link to a Google Drive folder with both the KSP.log and output_log.txt. Let me know if there's anything else I can provide for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 9 hours ago, Merkov said: Not a huge issue, since it's easy enough for me to simply assume the second stage might have burned up, but I found it odd that SR doesn't say the second stage burned up, but the third stage did. Again, this is using stock parachutes, not RealChutes, so I can't say if this is related to @Loren Pechtel's issue, but it sounds similar. It certainly sounds RealChutes was simply a victim of bad luck, then--that anything above 2000 m/s that survives" the fire fails to land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkov Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, Loren Pechtel said: It certainly sounds RealChutes was simply a victim of bad luck, then--that anything above 2000 m/s that survives" the fire fails to land. I have a suspicion that it is related to velocity at the time of the unloading. I actually failed to recreate this earlier even though I jettisoned my stage travelling at about the same speed as in my example above. The difference was that my vessel didn't make it to orbit, so it fell back into the atmosphere and the discarded stage stayed loaded longer. I'm guessing it slowed down in the atmosphere, because it recovered just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, Merkov said: I have a suspicion that it is related to velocity at the time of the unloading. I actually failed to recreate this earlier even though I jettisoned my stage travelling at about the same speed as in my example above. The difference was that my vessel didn't make it to orbit, so it fell back into the atmosphere and the discarded stage stayed loaded longer. I'm guessing it slowed down in the atmosphere, because it recovered just fine. Yeah, that is what I would expect. The atmosphere does not exist for things outside physics range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) The log confirms what I was thinking might be happening: it was calculating parachutes first, then if there was a chance of burning up it would reset the terminal velocity. I'm testing the fix now. Edit: Fix uploaded. Should be all that's needed for that to start working again. Chance of burning up is calculated first (with powered reentry burn if needed), then terminal velocity with chutes, then powered landing if required. Edited January 29, 2017 by magico13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielboro Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 i have a ship doing multi air braking. last night wen going to it to change the pe i found it empty. is it possible SR is deleting the crew of a ship that has a futher PE in atmosphere wen a part from a lunch is recovered? this is not the first time i found a ship whit a PE in atmosphere empty and IIRC somewhere in the tread it was raised as a possible SR bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, danielboro said: i have a ship doing multi air braking. last night wen going to it to change the pe i found it empty. is it possible SR is deleting the crew of a ship that has a futher PE in atmosphere wen a part from a lunch is recovered? this is not the first time i found a ship whit a PE in atmosphere empty and IIRC somewhere in the tread it was raised as a possible SR bug. It's certainly possible since I just recently made some changes to reduce the likelihood of that happening. Make sure you're on the latest version (at the very least version 1.6.6, but you'll really want to update to fix a few big bugs) and if you're not going to ever use Kerbal recovery you can disable it in the settings (at the Space Center, click the SR button and turn off "Recover Kerbals"). If you were already using 1.6.6 or later then it looks like I've got another edge case to take care of. Unfortunately my plan of putting the Kerbals back into the ship if it wasn't destroyed within 10 seconds is proving to be more difficult to implement than I originally expected. There were some recent changes to KSP that make playing around with crew assignments more difficult since they have fairly strict verification checks now that I've had some trouble with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex38 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi everyone I've installed the latest version of the mod and I have an issue I can't get stage recovery to work ! I'm putting tons of parachutes but it does nothing, I tried put a probe core and communications antennas on the first stage for example, but the terminal velocity isn't changing in the VAB (it could stay at 200m/s even when I'm putting more chutes on..) even with 5x8 parachutes and a big one on the top it won't show me if the stage will be recovered ... I'm using lots of mods, especially real chute and R-O mods but without R-O (not updated in 1.2.2 yet) any ideas ? what am I doing wrong ? I tried to search but I think I'm doing all the things right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alex38 said: Hi everyone I've installed the latest version of the mod and I have an issue I can't get stage recovery to work ! I'm putting tons of parachutes but it does nothing, I tried put a probe core and communications antennas on the first stage for example, but the terminal velocity isn't changing in the VAB (it could stay at 200m/s even when I'm putting more chutes on..) even with 5x8 parachutes and a big one on the top it won't show me if the stage will be recovered ... I'm using lots of mods, especially real chute and R-O mods but without R-O (not updated in 1.2.2 yet) any ideas ? what am I doing wrong ? I tried to search but I think I'm doing all the things right If the stage impacts before leaving physics range the chutes must actually work properly in order to recover. If it leaves physics range and would otherwise be destroyed it only needs to have chutes, they need not function. (As in that case recovery is simulated rather than actually coming down.) It never needs communications. A probe core is only needed if it is landing on rockets. (Which of course also requires fuel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex38 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Loren Pechtel said: If the stage impacts before leaving physics range the chutes must actually work properly in order to recover. If it leaves physics range and would otherwise be destroyed it only needs to have chutes, they need not function. (As in that case recovery is simulated rather than actually coming down.) It never needs communications. A probe core is only needed if it is landing on rockets. (Which of course also requires fuel.) Thanks for the infos and the response but my problem is that in the VAB, stage recovery won't tell me if the stage will be recovered, it's highlighting the stage in red.. So I didn't actually test in flight for the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Pechtel Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Alex38 said: Thanks for the infos and the response but my problem is that in the VAB, stage recovery won't tell me if the stage will be recovered, it's highlighting the stage in red.. So I didn't actually test in flight for the moment Are you sure you have the rocket stacked right? Chutes on the right stages? If the chutes are staged before the booster comes off they won't work. (And in flight they won't unless you're running RealChute which will refuse to deploy them while it's going up.) When you add chutes to a rocket they by default go into the bottom stage which will not work right! SmartStage will stack a rocket correctly in most cases. The only time I find myself overriding it is if there are engines that are exposed but should not be lit. (Sometimes I take off entirely on SRBs, sometimes I have atmosphere engines around a core that's a space engine.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex38 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Loren Pechtel said: Are you sure you have the rocket stacked right? Chutes on the right stages? If the chutes are staged before the booster comes off they won't work. (And in flight they won't unless you're running RealChute which will refuse to deploy them while it's going up.) When you add chutes to a rocket they by default go into the bottom stage which will not work right! SmartStage will stack a rocket correctly in most cases. The only time I find myself overriding it is if there are engines that are exposed but should not be lit. (Sometimes I take off entirely on SRBs, sometimes I have atmosphere engines around a core that's a space engine.) I will check if i'm doing everything right but i thought i made it right that's why i'm asking i'll check later and come back with good news, i hope thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex38 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Loren Pechtel said: Are you sure you have the rocket stacked right? Chutes on the right stages? If the chutes are staged before the booster comes off they won't work. (And in flight they won't unless you're running RealChute which will refuse to deploy them while it's going up.) When you add chutes to a rocket they by default go into the bottom stage which will not work right! SmartStage will stack a rocket correctly in most cases. The only time I find myself overriding it is if there are engines that are exposed but should not be lit. (Sometimes I take off entirely on SRBs, sometimes I have atmosphere engines around a core that's a space engine.) Okay so i've checked everything and i didn't make a mistake in staging or chutes stages, so i wonder what mod could interfere with stage recovery.. because i tested on a single stage (StageRecovery showed 87m/s final speed right here) , then i added one decoupler, put the chutes right on the decoupler stage and SR shows 200 m/s final speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, Alex38 said: Okay so i've checked everything and i didn't make a mistake in staging or chutes stages, so i wonder what mod could interfere with stage recovery.. because i tested on a single stage (StageRecovery showed 87m/s final speed right here) , then i added one decoupler, put the chutes right on the decoupler stage and SR shows 200 m/s final speed Can you post any pictures? What happens if you use just StageRecovery and RealChute and no other mods? Try testing without a decoupler at all. Are the decouplers from a mod? Can you post any of the log files (look at this post and scroll down to see where the logs are on disk)? It's likely a mod interaction. It could definitely be related to non-stock decouplers that use a different module (you did say you're using RO mods). Logs would show if any errors happened (if it's giving exactly 200m/s then that sounds plausible) and would provide some info that I could use to try to pin down what/where things are messing up at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex38 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Okay thanks, so here is my log from the /unity/player : https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6lgx5hwit0virv/ksp log.log?dl=0 and yes I use it with modded decoupler, but i don't remember their name, i think they are KW decoupler that's a thin white decoupler and there is a black line on it, I'll try to take pictures when i can I can't try right now but thanks for the help i really appreciate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade_Falcon Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 50 minutes ago, Alex38 said: Okay thanks, so here is my log from the /unity/player : https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6lgx5hwit0virv/ksp log.log?dl=0 and yes I use it with modded decoupler, but i don't remember their name, i think they are KW decoupler that's a thin white decoupler and there is a black line on it, I'll try to take pictures when i can I can't try right now but thanks for the help i really appreciate Also, did you change your root part while the vessel was under construction? I use KW rocketry decouplers (the ones you describe) and WildBlue Titan decouplers, and I the only time I've seen StageRecovery calculation oddities is when I've change the root part of the craft a few times in the VAB (when assembling a craft with sub-assemblies). IIRC saving the craft and leaving the VAB fixed it the next time I loaded the craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex38 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Jade_Falcon said: Also, did you change your root part while the vessel was under construction? I use KW rocketry decouplers (the ones you describe) and WildBlue Titan decouplers, and I the only time I've seen StageRecovery calculation oddities is when I've change the root part of the craft a few times in the VAB (when assembling a craft with sub-assemblies). IIRC saving the craft and leaving the VAB fixed it the next time I loaded the craft. No i didn't change the root part, i made a vessel in 2 minutes just a capsule, a decoupler, tank and engine , then chutes and i get the 200 m/s on SR.. I will try to post a pic later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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