[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[Ratzap]

I was looking at getting Fusebox to know about Karbonite now it's been released but there are no public methods in the modules to call in order to find out if the part is active and how much charge it is consuming. Would you mind putting such methods in for a future release? I see the generator module has some with promising names but there's no part. What I mean is so I can do something like

if (KarPresent)

....

case "USI_ResourceConverter":

if (part.isActive())

{

am_use += part.rate;

[tHarvey303]

Just a bug I've been having. The resources appear mirrored off the planet. ALso the mun resources are hovering of the ground(Is this on purpose?). I can provide more info if needed. By the way, the rest of your mod is amazing, you did a really good job.

Edit: This happens with Duna and Ike and I assume all the other planets as well.

Edited August 5, 2014 by tHarvey303

[Remi]

Could you or someone else please release a couple craft files of planes and/or rockets using carbonate parts,I'm really struggling and it would be a great help.

the problem is myself, and probably a lot of others, use karbonite with a bunch of other mods. None of my craft use just stock and Karbonite parts.

But perhaps I can help if you have some specific questions?

Edit:

I just created a simple jet plane using stock and Karbonite parts only.

The X-1

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2r98ntdkmnmv6hq/AACCMX7Cht5LqqiGfj5j57PGa

Edited August 5, 2014 by Remi

[Stage]

Would someone be interested in an ExPL-addon for Karbonite, where it's a little more (but not too) complex than mine ore, recieve bacon (slightly exaggerated)?

I've only edited configs and changed textures of Karbonite parts (I can't create models at all ) to test it.

If there is interest in my addon and I find someone to make models for me, I'll release it.

Whoever wants to try it, message me via PM and I'll send you the link to my dropbox.

Karbonite (ofc) and MKS (ORS files) are required for resource generation and extraction.

Here's a flowchart how the addon (should) work:

[RoverDude]

http://i.imgur.com/on60Z0t.jpg

Just a bug I've been having. The resources appear mirrored off the planet. ALso the mun resources are hovering of the ground(Is this on purpose?). I can provide more info if needed. By the way, the rest of your mod is amazing, you did a really good job.

Edit: This happens with Duna and Ike and I assume all the other planets as well.

ORS bug - probably have to cross-post that for Fractal to look at (once he comes back).

I was looking at getting Fusebox to know about Karbonite now it's been released but there are no public methods in the modules to call in order to find out if the part is active and how much charge it is consuming. Would you mind putting such methods in for a future release? I see the generator module has some with promising names but there's no part. What I mean is so I can do something like

if (KarPresent)

....

case "USI_ResourceConverter":

if (part.isActive())

{

am_use += part.rate;

I look forward to your pull request

[tygoo7]

Try deleting the ORS folder inside of Karbonite and the one inside of MKS. See if one or both of those fix things. Back them up because you will want them later.

Alright I'm back and I tried that and still the same fps. I'm using the newest release version and I am getting about half of my normal fps without this mod.

[RoverDude]

There has to be something in the debug log... and is this everywhere, in staging, in orbit?

[Akira_R]

Would someone be interested in an ExPL-addon for Karbonite, where it's a little more (but not too) complex than mine ore, recieve bacon (slightly exaggerated)?

I've only edited configs and changed textures of Karbonite parts (I can't create models at all ) to test it.

If there is interest in my addon and I find someone to make models for me, I'll release it.

Whoever wants to try it, message me via PM and I'll send you the link to my dropbox.

Karbonite (ofc) and MKS (ORS files) are required for resource generation and extraction.

Here's a flowchart how the addon (should) work:

http://i.imgur.com/L3uBU8C.jpg

THIS!! This right here is something that needs to be done, I personally prefer using Karbonite over Kethane and if I can use EL with out needing the Kethane dlls would be fantastic, plus I really like the added complexity to the system that you show in the flow chart, what would be cool is if one could change EL so that instead of each part just requiring a certain amount of rocketparts one could make it so that each part would require like computer components or various other stuff. Although the only way I could think to impliment something like this is either you would have to go and assign a resource cost value to every part, which means it wouldn't really work with mods, or just a basic cost multiplier for part types, like a command pod 20% of its weight needs to be computer parts, the rest rocket parts or something like that.

sorry for the wall of text that isn't really about your mod RoverDude :/ love your mods btw!!

[tygoo7]

There has to be something in the debug log... and is this everywhere, in staging, in orbit?

It is everywhere. Here's my log.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99tbgd87oxr1eec/output_log.txt

[RoverDude]

THIS!! This right here is something that needs to be done, I personally prefer using Karbonite over Kethane and if I can use EL with out needing the Kethane dlls would be fantastic, plus I really like the added complexity to the system that you show in the flow chart, what would be cool is if one could change EL so that instead of each part just requiring a certain amount of rocketparts one could make it so that each part would require like computer components or various other stuff. Although the only way I could think to impliment something like this is either you would have to go and assign a resource cost value to every part, which means it wouldn't really work with mods, or just a basic cost multiplier for part types, like a command pod 20% of its weight needs to be computer parts, the rest rocket parts or something like that.

sorry for the wall of text that isn't really about your mod RoverDude :/ love your mods btw!!

Totally cool, I'd say kick up a dev thread and get rocking

It is everywhere. Here's my log.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99tbgd87oxr1eec/output_log.txt

Gotta ask, and apologize if we did this before - what happens on a clean install with just Karbonite? What mod breaks the camel's back?

[tygoo7]

Gotta ask, and apologize if we did this before - what happens on a clean install with just Karbonite? What mod breaks the camel's back?

Weird because it works like normal. Does the log say what mod could be causing this lag with Karbonite installed?

[RoverDude]

Weird because it works like normal. Does the log say what mod could be causing this lag with Karbonite installed?

If it did, we'd have something close to world peace.

[elfindreams]

(See below)

Also bear in mind MKS has an on-rails converter, this particular converter does not.

(Edit) provide me some samples of KSP-I parts that work on rails please so I can see what converter they are using. Although KSPI itself unfortunately does not have a permissive license.

I could be wrong about KSP-I... I thought the ISRU converters were on rails. (not the extractors tho)

What about using the MKS converters... it is not like the author is hard to reach

[tygoo7]

If it did, we'd have something close to world peace.

I tried deleting all the ORS folders again and that gave my FPS back. I'm guessing the lag may have something to do with ORS.

[RoverDude]

I tried deleting all the ORS folders again and that gave my FPS back. I'm guessing the lag may have something to do with ORS.

Now do it without any of the texture packs, it is almost alway texture replacer, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

I could be wrong about KSP-I... I thought the ISRU converters were on rails. (not the extractors tho)

What about using the MKS converters... it is not like the author is hard to reach

True, but the MKS ones take a hard dependency on TAC-LS

[tygoo7]

Now do it without any of the texture packs, it is almost alway texture replacer, etc.

Hmm, this is a little weird but I can launch a vessel without Texture Replacer installed? I can enter buildings and stuff but when I click the launch button, it crashes.

[nli2work]

setting up some configs for LF/Oxygenated versions of the atmospheric engines. slightly altered textures to make them visually identifiable in the parts list. Also hammering out a radial mount lander leg.

For folks posting output_log s in the future, please follow a few simple steps.

delete the log.txt in main KSP folder; delete output_log.txt in KSP_Data;

start your game, and replicate the bug or issue.

if game doesn't crash when the problem occurs, close the game using ALT-F4 or the X button if you are in window mode. This way we'll have a much shorter log that better pertains to any issues you are having.

Thanks!

[RoverDude]

Hmm, this is a little weird but I can launch a vessel without Texture Replacer installed? I can enter buildings and stuff but when I click the launch button, it crashes.

See below RE Log. Also if you are using 64 bit, try it in 32.

setting up some configs for LF/Oxygenated versions of the atmospheric engines. slightly altered textures to make them visually identifiable in the parts list. Also hammering out a radial mount lander leg.

For folks posting output_log s in the future, please follow a few simple steps.

delete the log.txt in main KSP folder; delete output_log.txt in KSP_Data;

start your game, and replicate the bug or issue.

if game doesn't crash when the problem occurs, close the game using ALT-F4 or the X button if you are in window mode. This way we'll have a much shorter log that better pertains to any issues you are having.

Thanks!

Awesome on the engines! And thanks

[tygoo7]

See below RE Log. Also if you are using 64 bit, try it in 32.

Here's a new log with the directions to delete the older ones. I am on 64-bit. With this mod I get 5fps and without it I get 17fps. The frame drop is only with Karbonite installed, with MKS/OKS I still get normal 17fps. This log is also WITH texture replacer, I can get a log without it if you want

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99tbgd87oxr1eec/output_log.txt

[RoverDude]

SO the best way for me to help you... seriously. Clean install. Karb zip only. Slowly re-add your mods (and you have a ton of them) one by one or even five by five. Anything with graphics (EVE, etc.) do last. If it works fine without anything visual then slowly add those in till we find the culprit. If it slows down before that, uninstall the one or ones you just added and move on to the next group. Eventually we're going to find a conflict.

[Justin Kerbice]

Could you change the default scoop resource ? I don't see the point of having Nitrogen 1st (or as default) whereas Karbonite alone on stock install only add karbonite resource.

Also, engines are quite too heavy and too strong (or over-powered as 1t KAE-150S engine have 515 kN of thrust !), smaller ones would be great (kind of 0.5 or 0.25t and 30-80 kN).

EDIT: drills have no action groups yet.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Justin Kerbice

[elfindreams]

Could you change the default scoop resource ? I don't see the point of having Nitrogen 1st (or as default) whereas Karbonite alone on stock install only add karbonite resource.

Also, engines are quite too heavy and too strong (or over-powered as 1t KAE-150S engine have 515 kN of thrust !), smaller ones would be great (kind of 0.5 or 0.25t and 30-80 kN).

EDIT: drills have no action groups yet.

I doubt he can, I think he is using the ORS scoops as is and I am not sure they can have their default set.

I think the engines are as designed, Karbonite is supposed to be heavy and highly volatile creating engines that are likewise heavy and over-powered. It is the tradeoff of using karbonite engines instead of just converting the LFO and using an LFO engine.

[marce]

I doubt he can, I think he is using the ORS scoops as is and I am not sure they can have their default set.

[...]

Agreed. ORS is a nice foundation but needs more work, but RoverDude already expressed that he's aware and will figure something out.

So let's stay calm, it will come eventually

[nli2work]

Could you change the default scoop resource ? I don't see the point of having Nitrogen 1st (or as default) whereas Karbonite alone on stock install only add karbonite resource.

Also, engines are quite too heavy and too strong (or over-powered as 1t KAE-150S engine have 515 kN of thrust !), smaller ones would be great (kind of 0.5 or 0.25t and 30-80 kN).

EDIT: drills have no action groups yet.

For next update I'd probably increase the engine masses. they are comparable to stock engines in mass, but 2 to 3 times the thrust. given Karbonite's characteristics, the engine would need more structural strength to handle the more volatile fuel.

[RoverDude]

Could you change the default scoop resource ? I don't see the point of having Nitrogen 1st (or as default) whereas Karbonite alone on stock install only add karbonite resource.

Also, engines are quite too heavy and too strong (or over-powered as 1t KAE-150S engine have 515 kN of thrust !), smaller ones would be great (kind of 0.5 or 0.25t and 30-80 kN).

EDIT: drills have no action groups yet.

hmm...you are on 0.1.2 for the drills correct? For engines I defer to nli2work, but in general Karbonite engines are heavy, noisy, powerful, and horribly inefficient and tend to explode. That's their thing

I doubt he can, I think he is using the ORS scoops as is and I am not sure they can have their default set.

I think the engines are as designed, Karbonite is supposed to be heavy and highly volatile creating engines that are likewise heavy and over-powered. It is the tradeoff of using karbonite engines instead of just converting the LFO and using an LFO engine.

Yep it's an ORS thing. In discussions now on how to handle a fork in the event that FractalUK remains MIA, and there's a plan B and C.

Agreed. ORS is a nice foundation but needs more work, but RoverDude already expressed that he's aware and will figure something out.

So let's stay calm, it will come eventually

See above

For next update I'd probably increase the engine masses. they are comparable to stock engines in mass, but 2 to 3 times the thrust. given Karbonite's characteristics, the engine would need more structural strength to handle the more volatile fuel.

I endorse this.