[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[jgzman]

Sure, let's start with the easy stuff. Can you collect Karbonite on the ground using a drill? Always start there.

Yes, I was able to extract Kethane from Minimus with no trouble. Well, except for the bit where, in the middle of transfering Karbonite from the lander to the orbital station, the lander spontaneously reverted to kit format. I don't think that's a problem with the drill, though.

[Eggman360]

Didn't see this in the last few pages... so I'll post it here.

Bug report:

When using the Karbonite to Liquid/Ox converter, if the target L/O fuel tank is disabled (red pause sign) in the right click options, the converter will not produce the result, but will still eat karbonite.

Does the same thing occur for you when the Kerbonite tanks are full?

[carrbrooke]

The instant fill up is a known bug - not sure on why you stopped seeing hotspots though - try a toggle/retoggle on the scanner. Can you still extract? Anything in the debug log?

hmmm... Can you show me screenshots of both your GameData and your UmbraSpaceIndustries folder?

Thanks for trying to help RoverDude but I have removed all other mods from my game data folder so I only have the content of the Karbonite_0.3.4/GameData/* in my GameData folder. I have then started a new game and tried to make a craft with just a drill and a capsule and a battery and I cant deploy the drill on the Launchpad, there just isn't a right click menu. I can right click on the pod and get a crew report, I am playing a sandbox game but I don't think this should matter. The only other think I can think of trying is reinstalling KSP, it seems a bit extreme as I don't have this problem with the Kethane mod.

[RoverDude]

Hi. I recently updated Karbonite, and seem to be having some extra crashes, when loading from the VAB. I'm also getting some more crashes when switching to ships, and issues with a previously working texture replacer, but that might be something coming from kethane

Here are some crash report things:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jzoabt97tflmtbv/AAA_yBOnjtihaem5jChaMa9Da?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ayaxrc1k2s0od7d/AACxWXkVAGymD4I9lHb5bUU7a?dl=0

Will dig through, but usually not much we can do for crashes tbh

Didn't see this in the last few pages... so I'll post it here.

Bug report:

When using the Karbonite to Liquid/Ox converter, if the target L/O fuel tank is disabled (red pause sign) in the right click options, the converter will not produce the result, but will still eat karbonite.

Thanks - can you please (or someone) log a GitHub issue and I will take a look?

Yes, I was able to extract Kethane from Minimus with no trouble. Well, except for the bit where, in the middle of transfering Karbonite from the lander to the orbital station, the lander spontaneously reverted to kit format. I don't think that's a problem with the drill, though.

Odd... send me a screenshot of your ship so we can see how things are wired.

Thanks for trying to help RoverDude but I have removed all other mods from my game data folder so I only have the content of the Karbonite_0.3.4/GameData/* in my GameData folder. I have then started a new game and tried to make a craft with just a drill and a capsule and a battery and I cant deploy the drill on the Launchpad, there just isn't a right click menu. I can right click on the pod and get a crew report, I am playing a sandbox game but I don't think this should matter. The only other think I can think of trying is reinstalling KSP, it seems a bit extreme as I don't have this problem with the Kethane mod.

There's actually a 0.3.5 out which may solve your issue. Give it a go and let me know.

[carrbrooke]

Your a genius, I have updated to 0.3.5 and it all now works and it all works with all the other mods I have installed. Thanks for your help

[marce]

Thanks - can you please (or someone) log a GitHub issue and I will take a look?

I created an issue. However, since it's a USI_conv problem (details in the issue) I did it for the USI and not the Karbonite repo.

May be able to give both issues I have there a shot tonight, but can't promise anything today...

[jgzman]

Odd... send me a screenshot of your ship so we can see how things are wired.

Please see linked:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=313295824 - four scoops, each directly attached to a Karbonite tank.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=313295474 - status of scoops.

I launched to orbit from ground level, and I made several low-orbit passes, one dropping to 60,000 KM, one dropping to 55,000 KM. In all cases, passing through atmosphere was done in real time, and I gathered zero units of Karbonite.

Also, I have no idea how I linked to the non-english version of steam.

[Veelay]

So, I've been having a bit of trouble figuring out an efficient way of harvesting and transporting Karbonite. I'd like to mine it from the Mun or Minmus, and bring it back to Kerbin. Can anyone give me some tips? Is it better to refine on the ground or in orbit? Better to transport Karbonite itself from the moons, and refine on Kerbin, or to refine it in orbit around the moons before transport? I just can't seem to figure it out! It's just hard to make a good delta-v profit from the process.

[Fizban]

Hello Roverdude,

First of all i would like to thank you for those great mods, it really enhanced my ksp experience and gave me lots of new challenges.

One thing i would like to ask is if it is possible for me (and how difficult/complicated it is) to change the deposits of resources on the planets.

What i would like to do is place abundant deposits of every resource near KSC. That would help me to learn the mechanics of all the different Modules and how the resources work into one another prior to setting up a base.

(tl;dr: I would like to have Deposits of every resource on KSC to learn how everything works,can it be done?)

PS.Sorry if my English are flawed, they are by no means my mother language.

[Covert]

(tl;dr: I would like to have Deposits of every resource on KSC to learn how everything works,can it be done?)

Fizban, under CommunityResourcePack you can go into the Karbonite and MKS folders and tweak the

resource definitions. I don't see why you would need to though. You can already get small amounts

of everything but Karborundum and water on the launchpad - and you can get just buy a small container of

karborundum or water for testing. There is no need to tweak the resource amounts to try things out at KSC.

And if you just want to test an MKS production line, you can just fill a container with

Minerals, Ore, Substrate and Water in the VAB.

[RoverDude]

Please see linked:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=313295824 - four scoops, each directly attached to a Karbonite tank.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=313295474 - status of scoops.

I launched to orbit from ground level, and I made several low-orbit passes, one dropping to 60,000 KM, one dropping to 55,000 KM. In all cases, passing through atmosphere was done in real time, and I gathered zero units of Karbonite.

Also, I have no idea how I linked to the non-english version of steam.

Odd.. yet your drills work... So I think this is a CRP issue. Reinstall CRP from the link in my sig, also make sure you have ORS 0.1.2 in your USI folder - let me know how that works.

So, I've been having a bit of trouble figuring out an efficient way of harvesting and transporting Karbonite. I'd like to mine it from the Mun or Minmus, and bring it back to Kerbin. Can anyone give me some tips? Is it better to refine on the ground or in orbit? Better to transport Karbonite itself from the moons, and refine on Kerbin, or to refine it in orbit around the moons before transport? I just can't seem to figure it out! It's just hard to make a good delta-v profit from the process.

Better to refine it in situ since you can just buy it in the VAB or mine it on Kerbin.

Hello Roverdude,

First of all i would like to thank you for those great mods, it really enhanced my ksp experience and gave me lots of new challenges.

One thing i would like to ask is if it is possible for me (and how difficult/complicated it is) to change the deposits of resources on the planets.

What i would like to do is place abundant deposits of every resource near KSC. That would help me to learn the mechanics of all the different Modules and how the resources work into one another prior to setting up a base.

(tl;dr: I would like to have Deposits of every resource on KSC to learn how everything works,can it be done?)

PS.Sorry if my English are flawed, they are by no means my mother language.

Your English is better than some Americans I deal with

Every resource other than Karborundum can be harvested on the launchpad in limited quantities, or tweaked So no need for changes. Karborundum can be bought in small lab sample containers.

[Covert]

I'd like to mine it from the Mun or Minmus, and bring it back to Kerbin.

I would not expect this to be a profitable process. So what is your real goal??

1) Mine resources to make Funds. - Pick a different resource, Karbonite is too cheap per ton to be a reasonable trade good from outer space. MKS/OKS has a couple trade goods and there is a precious minerals addon for Karbonite. Either of those is a good possibility for making profit.

2) Getting Karbonite on Kerbin for running high thrust engines / aircraft - Just tweak the tanks in the VAB - you can buy all the Karbonite on Kerbin you could want.

3) Some other goal we have not understood... In which case please help us understand.

For me Karbonite is a way to get fuel any place but Kerbin...

[Veelay]

I would not expect this to be a profitable process. So what is your real goal??

1) Mine resources to make Funds. - Pick a different resource, Karbonite is too cheap per ton to be a reasonable trade good from outer space. MKS/OKS has a couple trade goods and there is a precious minerals addon for Karbonite. Either of those is a good possibility for making profit.

2) Getting Karbonite on Kerbin for running high thrust engines / aircraft - Just tweak the tanks in the VAB - you can buy all the Karbonite on Kerbin you could want.

3) Some other goal we have not understood... In which case please help us understand.

For me Karbonite is a way to get fuel any place but Kerbin...

Ah, sorry, I guess I should clarify that I'm just looking for a way to resupply my Kerbin orbital construction station without having to make several expensive launches from the KSC every time I want to put something together in orbit. By delta-v profit, I simply mean getting (significantly) more fuel than I use to transport it.

[Autochton]

So, eh, if I wanted to do a mod providing a somewhat abstracted but mostly realistic ISRU system, would I need more of Karbonite than the DLL itself? ORS provides the extraction and resources, the Karbonite DLL provides the conversion system. I'm considering ways to incorporate Extra-Planetary Launchpads for rocket construction (which may require me to code some stuff up for taniwha in my <sarcasm>copious</sarcasm> free time), and I'll probably target Real Fuels wrt. fuel creation, with a set of recipes for stock LiquidFuel/Oxidizer/MonoPropellant for those who like that. Karbonite itself as a resource would not be a part of it, however, so it's not really an expansion, but rather a sort of total conversion.

I'll probably pick a minimal set of pathways from extraction to final product as a prototype, likely some sort of raw hydrocarbon crude into LiquidFuel with a few intermediaries, for simplicity's sake.

Thoughts? Am I off my rocker? Is this interesting to people? I've obviously got an entire experimental phase ahead of me, and before I can build vehicles I'll need to work out how to properly sort the plans I have with taniwha and EPL, but it should at least be possible, I'm thinking.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Autochton
Clarification of the second paragraph.

[RoverDude]

So, eh, if I wanted to do a mod providing a somewhat abstracted but mostly realistic ISRU system, would I need more of Karbonite than the DLL itself? ORS provides the extraction and resources, the Karbonite DLL provides the conversion system. I'm considering ways to incorporate Extra-Planetary Launchpads for rocket construction (which may require me to code some stuff up for taniwha in my <sarcasm>copious</sarcasm> free time), and I'll probably target Real Fuels wrt. fuel creation, with a set of recipes for stock LiquidFuel/Oxidizer/MonoPropellant for those who like that. Karbonite itself as a resource would not be a part of it, however, so it's not really an expansion, but rather a sort of total conversion.

I'll probably pick a minimal set of pathways from extraction to final product, likely some sort of raw hydrocarbon crude into LiquidFuel with a few intermediaries, for simplicity's sake.

Thoughts? Am I off my rocker? Is this interesting to people? I've obviously got an entire experimental phase ahead of me, and before I can build vehicles I'll need to work out how to properly sort the plans I have with taniwha and EPL, but it should at least be possible, I'm thinking.

ORS provides the resource maps but no parts.

Karbonite leverages ORS and adds a lot of extensions to ORS, as well as all of the parts.

I am almost done teasing out all of the bits of Karbonite that I can make generic into the USI libraries and my own ORS extension library. So your end game is that the toolchain goes ORS->ORSExtensions->Karbonite.

So assuming you can make all of your own models, configs. etc. you would not need Karbonite.

Just a bit of forewarning - ORS is a bit weird right now. We use Wave's 0.1.2 version in all of the USI products, This is incompatible with the new 0.1.3 version Fractal put out (as Fractal's version does not yet incorporate the community changes in 0.1.2). So one of two things will be happening. Either ORS under Fractal will be updated in a way that allows mods to play nice, and is independent of KSPI, or I will create a fork to base all of my extensions off of. A decision one way or the other will occur and roll out with 0.25 (testing different options in experimentals now so it is ready for day 1).

[Autochton]

ORS provides the resource maps but no parts.

Karbonite leverages ORS and adds a lot of extensions to ORS, as well as all of the parts.

I am almost done teasing out all of the bits of Karbonite that I can make generic into the USI libraries and my own ORS extension library. So your end game is that the toolchain goes ORS->ORSExtensions->Karbonite.

So assuming you can make all of your own models, configs. etc. you would not need Karbonite.

You make a moderately stiff assumption there, but I suspect it ought to be possible to figure something out with various CC-licensed models, talking to modelers, etc. Configs and code, though, that I can do. I considered putting together a simple resource conversion DLL, but figured that if someone else already had done it, that would be grand.

Just a bit of forewarning - ORS is a bit weird right now. We use Wave's 0.1.2 version in all of the USI products, This is incompatible with the new 0.1.3 version Fractal put out (as Fractal's version does not yet incorporate the community changes in 0.1.2). So one of two things will be happening. Either ORS under Fractal will be updated in a way that allows mods to play nice, and is independent of KSPI, or I will create a fork to base all of my extensions off of. A decision one way or the other will occur and roll out with 0.25 (testing different options in experimentals now so it is ready for day 1).

All right. I don't expect to have much to show before then anyway - my time is scarce and this all is in early planning - so I'll see what follows.

Thanks for your knowledge and advice!

Edited September 18, 2014 by Autochton

[Alshain]

Ah, sorry, I guess I should clarify that I'm just looking for a way to resupply my Kerbin orbital construction station without having to make several expensive launches from the KSC every time I want to put something together in orbit. By delta-v profit, I simply mean getting (significantly) more fuel than I use to transport it.

The density of both Liquid Fuel and Oxidizer is 5kg/l. The density of Karbonite is 12.5kg/l if I am not mistaken. Hauling crude Karbonite from the surface is inefficient, I learned this the hard way Your best to refine on the surface.

[Covert]

I should clarify that I'm just looking for a way to resupply my Kerbin orbital construction station without having to make several expensive launches from the KSC every time I want to put something together in orbit. By delta-v profit, I simply mean getting (significantly) more fuel than I use to transport it.

Well, you want to deliver LF+Ox since those propulsion systems have higher ISP.

Quick back of the envelope, I would expect ~50% delivered mass to be the best you could do using LV-Ns to do most of the delta V work. (I get about 2800 m/s from Minmus surface to LKO and back; you could throw in some Aero braking to shave that a bit on the way down.). With no LV-Ns ~35% delivered.

Putting your construction station 700 m/s above LKO (about 3/4 of the way to Mun) would get delivery up to maybe 70%. Of course that would make it 700 m/s farther away from Kerbin for its other deliveries.

Gameplay wise it depends on what you find fun. I like getting funds from missions and will use the Davon supply module to get things delivered into Kerbin orbit. (Costs more than would pay to do it by hand, but avoids the tedium of repeated supply launches).

Likewise, you could use a supply shuttle to move between Kerbin and Minmus SOI combined with the Orbital Logistics module from MKS/OKS to make delivering fuel from Minmus a lot less tedious (although you would still end up using a lot of fuel mass to get the deliveries made.)

[jgzman]

Odd.. yet your drills work... So I think this is a CRP issue. Reinstall CRP from the link in my sig, also make sure you have ORS 0.1.2 in your USI folder - let me know how that works.

In fact, I had ORS 0.1.1, and no version of CRP at all.

I have updated the Karbonite mod, installed CRP, and installed an updated ORS in my main folder, not in USI.

Upon launch, the same vehicle pictured above produced 0.46 units of Karbonite, so I suppose it works. My satilite swooper, however, dosn't collect any Karbonite an a pass that drops to 55,000 km. So, it WORKS, it just doesn't meet my needs. Thanks for your help!

[RoverDude]

In fact, I had ORS 0.1.1, and no version of CRP at all.

I have updated the Karbonite mod, installed CRP, and installed an updated ORS in my main folder, not in USI.

Upon launch, the same vehicle pictured above produced 0.46 units of Karbonite, so I suppose it works. My satilite swooper, however, dosn't collect any Karbonite an a pass that drops to 55,000 km. So, it WORKS, it just doesn't meet my needs. Thanks for your help!

What needs were these? Just trying to sort out gameplay mechanics vs. what looks like a bad install

[Wolfmanwolf]

I've had a mun base with a drill rig on a hot spot and all of the sudden the option for extracting karbonite is gone

[RoverDude]

I've had a mun base with a drill rig on a hot spot and all of the sudden the option for extracting karbonite is gone

Ok odds are something changed What did you recently install or update?

[MrFancyPL]

Roverdude on what orbit particular collector collect karbonite ? On Kerbin orbit it can't

[RoverDude]

Roverdude on what orbit particular collector collect karbonite ? On Kerbin orbit it can't

within 70-75km

[MrFancyPL]

Thanks for tip