[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[Floppster]

Linkage between parts fail, the rocket simply becomes a pile of rocket-related junk

[OminousPenguin]

I've just found this and I love it.

I've long thought there needs to be an open alternative to Kethane.

Looking forward to trying it out.

[Mutifex]

Are there fuel lines going to those out lying fuel tanks? I have converted into both LF and OX without issue, both with massive power draw. However it only fills the tank directly above it, and not to my fuel lines (sure there is some coding for this trick). I have not tested with a claw yet or an expando tube to see the results, but they might experience the same problem as fuel lines that I have found.

I haven't had much time to experiment yet myself, still getting everything set up nicely, but I would imagine fuel flow will have similar issues to those that kethane did since fuels (LFO/OX) are hardcoded to behave differently to things like monoprop. It has been an issue for ages. My solution was usually to use something like TAC fuel balancer.. or these days I prefer something like Goodspeed Fuel Pump... it allows you to set as a tweakable a particular tank or tanks to auto pump their contents to connected tanks

[Wren]

Okay, I made 2 very similar crafts and the conversion for all 3 fuels works perfectly.

Going to disarm and unclaw the first pair and try again and see if that makes a difference.

The pair that does work there is fuel lines in both directions from the kerbonite tank to the 4 LFO tanks.

Let's see what happens. Stay tuned sports fans!

[RoverDude]

Good deal. Odds are it was sad when I fixed monoprop which would have changes the generators... I've seen KSP flip out when I do that.

[Wren]

Lolz, I crashed the other drill platform trying to move it.

So, I guess just make sure there are fuel lines going to your tanks and you are golden. Maybe some sort of thing how monopropellant is always cross-feed and LFO not so much.

K, I'm about to crash. Unlike RoverDude, I need more than 4 hours sleep. I already worked a 12 hour shift and this has been about 4 hours testing this awesome mod.

I LOVE THIS.

To all involved in making this, you are 100% condensed pure awesomeness. Please continue to spread your awesomeness to we, the underserving masses.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Wren

[Targa]

What other mods do I need to get this to work? The standalone version doesn't work, can't be assigned to an action group and it doesn't display anything.

I feel your pain! Took me a few hours last night and today to get everything figured out. The answer to your specific question is that only the generator/converter has Action Groups at the moment. The rest of the equipment has to be operated by right-clicking each part and using that menu.

@RoverDude - [bUG] This had me practically pulling my hair out. Finally figured out that the values in Karbonite\ORS\planetaryresourcedefinitions.cfg are incorrect. The displayThreshold value for Kerbin was 0.005. No Karbonite is displayed on the map at this value. Changing it to displayThreshold = 0.001 fixed the issue. Since all the other planetary bodies have an even higher value (0.01), I'm guessing these will also need to be changed.

[iSSUE] When you activate one scanner (detector array) it's a global toggle rather than a local toggle. So if you have detectors on 5 different planets and turn one off, you turn them all off, and vice versa. I don't know if this is a restriction inherited from ORS or not, but it needs to be addressed at least before a final release.

[COMMENT] Not really in love with the humongous orange hemispheres that display at ground level. If these could be toggled on the detector to being flat on the ground it would be nicer. An even better idea would be to have an on-screen menu which could be integrated into the Toolbar plugin to toggle Karbonite display on and off.

While the bottom mounted drill is sweet, and integrates nicely into the parts you have made so far, it doesn't lend itself well to design flexibility. If you build the Landing Frame/Drill assembly, you can't put a decoupler or anything attached to the bottom of the drill. So it's problematic as far as mounting it on a rocket to be sent to distant planetary bodies, or anywhere else for that matter.

end transmission...

For those of you as confused as I was, Here's the un-official instructions:

1. Download and install the ORS Plugin. if you're using the current Karbonite Dev version 0.0.4 of this plugin, navigate to your GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\Karbonite\ORS folder and open planetaryresourcedefinitions.cfg with a text editor. Change the lines that say "displayThreshold = 0.01" (and for Kerbin 0.005) to "displayThreshold = 0.001".

2. Don't look for assigning Action Groups at the moment (although you can with the generator/converter). Just use the right-click menus available by clicking the part directly.

3. Understand that the "Karbonite Detection Array" (found under Science in the VAB) is a detector and not a mapper. Its detection range is line-of-sight. So at ground level you may detect Karbonite deposits up to perhaps 5-10 kilometers away, in low orbit you can detect a much wider band, and at high orbit you can detect out to the visible horizon. Note also that since it doesn't map, an 85 degree polar orbit scan like you may be used to from Kethane really won't do you much good, since it's not mapping. This may be solved by using the current Dev version of SCANsat, but I can't confirm that since I don't use that plugin. The best use of an orbiting satellite (w/o SCANsat) would be in geostationary orbit. Probably the best way to use the detector at the moment is to simply put it on a vehicle or a lander. It has a wide enough detection range that you should be able to find plenty of deposits nearby.

4. Build a drill rig by assembling a KA-200 Karbonite Tank, BSP-1 Karbonite Converter, Integrated Landing Frame and DRT-21 Ventral Drill Assembly. Be sure to provide this rig with electric power and also empty fuel tanks (currently can convert to liquid fuel, oxidizer, and monopropellant). Either on the rig or separately, build something (a lander or rover) and attach a Karbonite Detection Array. You'll need to figure out how to transport these things on your own.

5. Right-click the Karbonite Detection Array and select "Display Karbonite Hotspots". Karbonite deposits are now visible in normal view as well as map view and the tracking station as bright orange spots (hemispheres at ground level). For fine-tuning your drilling spot, the Detection Array (used at ground level) also displays Karbonite abundance (in parts per million) on the right-click menu.

6. Position your drilling rig, deploy the drill, start extraction.

7. When your KA-200 Karbonite Tank(s) is/are full, start the converter and watch your fuel tanks fill up.

-Targa

Edited July 27, 2014 by Targa

[Furious1964]

Oh, so the detector is rover based and not sat based. Was putting it on a rocket. But the readouts are in a pop up window or something. And do I need MKS and/or SCANsat?

[Wren]

Oh, so the detector is rover based and not sat based. Was putting it on a rocket. But the readouts are in a pop up window or something. And do I need MKS and/or SCANsat?

No, the only thing I downloaded was Karbonite and it has everything in it to stand alone and work. If you want maps then you will need scansat (although that comes with modstats) and if you want base building stuff then you would get mks.

****EDIT**** Holy crud I see that I've been calling it kerbonite the entire time instead of Karbonite. I'm dumb, please forgive.

[RoverDude]

I feel your pain! Took me a few hours last night and today to get everything figured out. The answer to your specific question is that only the generator/converter has Action Groups at the moment. The rest of the equipment has to be operated by right-clicking each part and using that menu.

@RoverDude - [bUG] This had me practically pulling my hair out. Finally figured out that the values in Karbonite\ORS\planetaryresourcedefinitions.cfg are incorrect. The displayThreshold value for Kerbin was 0.005. No Karbonite is displayed on the map at this value. Changing it to displayThreshold = 0.001 fixed the issue. Since all the other planetary bodies have an even higher value (0.01), I'm guessing these will also need to be changed.

[iSSUE] When you activate one scanner (detector array) it's a global toggle rather than a local toggle. So if you have detectors on 5 different planets and turn one off, you turn them all off, and vice versa. I don't know if this is a restriction inherited from ORS or not, but it needs to be addressed at least before a final release.

[COMMENT] Not really in love with the humongous orange hemispheres that display at ground level. If these could be toggled on the detector to being flat on the ground it would be nicer. An even better idea would be to have an on-screen menu which could be integrated into the Toolbar plugin to toggle Karbonite display on and off.

While the bottom mounted drill is sweet, and integrates nicely into the parts you have made so far, it doesn't lend itself well to design flexibility. If you build the Landing Frame/Drill assembly, you can't put a decoupler or anything attached to the bottom of the drill. So it's problematic as far as mounting it on a rocket to be sent to distant planetary bodies, or anywhere else for that matter.

end transmission...

For those of you as confused as I was, Here's the un-official instructions:

1. Download and install the ORS Plugin. if you're using the current Karbonite Dev version 0.0.4 of this plugin, navigate to your GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\Karbonite\ORS folder and open planetaryresourcedefinitions.cfg with a text editor. Change the lines that say "displayThreshold = 0.01" (and for Kerbin 0.005) to "displayThreshold = 0.001".

2. Don't look for assigning Action Groups at the moment (although you can with the generator/converter). Just use the right-click menus available by clicking the part directly.

3. Understand that the "Karbonite Detection Array" (found under Science in the VAB) is a detector and not a mapper. Its detection range is line-of-sight. So at ground level you may detect Karbonite deposits up to perhaps 5-10 kilometers away, in low orbit you can detect a much wider band, and at high orbit you can detect out to the visible horizon. Note also that since it doesn't map, an 85 degree polar orbit scan like you may be used to from Kethane really won't do you much good, since it's not mapping. This may be solved by using the current Dev version of SCANsat, but I can't confirm that since I don't use that plugin. The best use of an orbiting satellite (w/o SCANsat) would be in geostationary orbit. Probably the best way to use the detector at the moment is to simply put it on a vehicle or a lander. It has a wide enough detection range that you should be able to find plenty of deposits nearby.

4. Build a drill rig by assembling a KA-200 Karbonite Tank, BSP-1 Karbonite Converter, Integrated Landing Frame and DRT-21 Ventral Drill Assembly. Be sure to provide this rig with electric power and also empty fuel tanks (currently can convert to liquid fuel, oxidizer, and monopropellant). Either on the rig or separately, build something (a lander or rover) and attach a Karbonite Detection Array. You'll need to figure out how to transport these things on your own.

5. Right-click the Karbonite Detection Array and select "Display Karbonite Hotspots". Karbonite deposits are now visible in normal view as well as map view and the tracking station as bright orange spots (hemispheres at ground level). For fine-tuning your drilling spot, the Detection Array (used at ground level) also displays Karbonite abundance (in parts per million) on the right-click menu.

6. Position your drilling rig, deploy the drill, start extraction.

7. When your KA-200 Karbonite Tank(s) is/are full, start the converter and watch your fuel tanks fill up.

-Targa

I have a fix for thresholds in the mix - was a pain, and a lot of trial and error but it's done. RE toggle/display/etc - ORS thing. RE the domes appearing... just toggle hotspots on or off. If I have time, I'll make a science part that's ground based only with no display. The bubbles are an ORS thing. Part of setting thresholds is the threshold for when those appear.

If there is a specific action group people want... you gotta let me know. Only one I am aware of that has been asked for is for the landing frame.

Oh, so the detector is rover based and not sat based. Was putting it on a rocket. But the readouts are in a pop up window or something. And do I need MKS and/or SCANsat?

You need neither. Once there is a new patch, you will quickly see little orange bubbles both on land and on orbit when you toggle hotspots on. To be clear, these are just high concentration spots - Karbonite is almost everywhere in varying concentrations.

No, the only thing I downloaded was Karbonite and it has everything in it to stand alone and work. If you want maps then you will need scansat (although that comes with modstats) and if you want base building stuff then you would get mks.

****EDIT**** Holy crud I see that I've been calling it kerbonite the entire time instead of Karbonite. I'm dumb, please forgive.

Correct, you just need Karbonite.

[Liowen]

Went to record the video and ended up killing my original probe . I still want to test the flow of docking ports, and that is where my newest one comes in hand as it has the Sr's on it right now. Goes through just fine . Also 16 RTG's and two large batteries with no power loss while extracting Karbonite and converting it to lf/ox.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Liowen

[JeffreyCor]

I saw the new dev version of SCANSat supports Karbonite so while it isn't required it can sure be handy

[Ringkeeper]

Roverdude? Please add for TextureReplacer the same as for MKS also for Karbonite

[sidfu]

Roverdude? Please add for TextureReplacer the same as for MKS also for Karbonite

just use the same way its simple. at a min u should always learn how to modify .cfg it saves time

TextureReplacer

{

keepLoaded = ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/ORS/

keepLoaded = ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/

}

btw u might want to make your own antanna/scanner cause with RT u cant use it when on eve,kerbin or lathe

[Mutifex]

A couple of things I have noted:

1. As mentioned above, you'll probably want to add a texture replacer config. Took me a little while to work out why I was getting a reading of 0.0ppm no matter where I looked. Meanwhile, I've sorted that one manually.

2. Still on the topic of textures. Some changes I made to my files locally which I assume would cause errors/missing resources... planetaryresourcedefinitinons fefines the following 2 textures to load:

mapUrl = UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/Laythe_Karbonite

mapUrl = UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/Vall_Karbonite

The files however are named "Laythe_Karbonite_" and "Vall_Substrate" respectively.

[Ringkeeper]

i know how to do it sidfu But most don't .

And setting treashold to 0.001 as targa suggest is a baaaad idea. Kerbonit seems to be more common then other ressources. Minmus looks with 0.001 like this to me and lags like hell:

http://i.imgur.com/eRGo2NN.png

I guess Roverdude used , as Mutifex detected, the substrate maps from MKS for karbonite also. So wherever substrate is, is also Karbonite.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Ringkeeper

[WintericeUK]

Suggestion: Radial Karbonite engines, I've been testing a drone 'Ka' drilling rig and the stock radials work a treat with the existing derrick style drilling system in terms of functionality.

Question: Is there a bug tracker set up for Karbonite so it is easier to keep track of whether a bug has been reported yet?

Thoughts: I am in love already with this mod! This will synergise insanely well with KAS for fuel transfer as well as linking multiple derricks together and I am on tenterhooks to see both how Karbonite evolves and how you expand MKS/OKS with Karbonite functionality!

Possible bug: lander legs are not being deployed by the 'Gear' button or 'G' key.

Mods installed when issue located: Karbonite Dev 0.0.4, SCANsat 7rc4, Toolbar 1.7.6, Module Manager 2.2.0, HyperEdit 1.2.4.2

Details: Tried from the VAB and the SPH, legs deploy fine via the right-click menu but do not deploy via Gear controls.

[Boamere]

Karbonite v0.0.5 released 57 seconds ago

[RoverDude]

0.0.5 is up.

ORS maps are all done with new thresholds.

Texture Replacer update

All joints are now stronger... less floppy rockets

[Boamere]

Oh man I ninja'd roverdude XD

Also is this compatible with kethane? cause some of my other mods have dependency upon it

[RoverDude]

Suggestion: Radial Karbonite engines, I've been testing a drone 'Ka' drilling rig and the stock radials work a treat with the existing derrick style drilling system in terms of functionality.

Question: Is there a bug tracker set up for Karbonite so it is easier to keep track of whether a bug has been reported yet?

Thoughts: I am in love already with this mod! This will synergise insanely well with KAS for fuel transfer as well as linking multiple derricks together and I am on tenterhooks to see both how Karbonite evolves and how you expand MKS/OKS with Karbonite functionality!

Possible bug: lander legs are not being deployed by the 'Gear' button or 'G' key.

Mods installed when issue located: Karbonite Dev 0.0.4, SCANsat 7rc4, Toolbar 1.7.6, Module Manager 2.2.0, HyperEdit 1.2.4.2

Details: Tried from the VAB and the SPH, legs deploy fine via the right-click menu but do not deploy via Gear controls.

I would love radial engines. Will add them to the parts wish list

Bug tracker, please use Github - it makes my life a LOT easier

Karbonite is already integrated into MKS as of 0.19 More will occur, and it will be plugged into hollow asteroids as well.

Not a bug, those are not tied to the landing gear functionality. I do need to add an action group thingie for them though.

[Liowen]

0.0.5 is up.

ORS maps are all done with new thresholds.

Texture Replacer update

All joints are now stronger... less floppy rockets

Now with less bounce!

[RoverDude]

Oh man I ninja'd roverdude XD

Also is this compatible with kethane? cause some of my other mods have dependency upon it

It fills a similar space, but nothing in Karbonite will conflict with Kethane. Which mods have the dependency? It would be nice to provide open license alternatives to all things Kethane.

[Boamere]

It fills a similar space, but nothing in Karbonite will conflict with Kethane. Which mods have the dependency? It would be nice to provide open license alternatives to all things Kethane.

Thanks for the quick reply; uuuhh actually now I think about it, I can probably just delete kethane, because I went on an angry rampage and deleted and re-downloaded ksp after all the crashes I've been getting So I can't remember what it was that used it XD

If I find any dependencies , I will report to you!

[Ferigad]

Thank you so mutch for that alternative to Kethane. *two thumps up* I will just purge kethane and put this into KSP. No offense, i like Kethane. But i dont like the License.