[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[Vahal]

Well, I tried the mod and I have some feedbacks:

• The radial drills are mining karbonite even if they barely touch the ground. It's more cosmetic issue than real issue but I noticed that when I stated how messed up was my lander , drill fitted too much up, the drill head barely hitted the ground.
  
• Perhaps I missed it but I couldn't find any way with scansat to track karbonite flow in the air so if the scoop are fonctionnal it was a matter of luck to see them working. I guess some planets have richer karbonite particles rate.
  
• Karbonite jet engines are nicely powerful. At a point who surprised me when I saw reentry effect while flying... and saw the overheat rising so fast I couldn't save one of my 3 engines (hopefully it was the middle one). Overheat due by too fast air in the intakes. We will need precoolers
  
• Last but not least, this one.
  Classic view mode, everything is alright
  
  Mapview and that's when things start to go weird
  
  

[Omez]

Well, I tried the mod and I have some feedbacks:

• The radial drills are mining karbonite even if they barely touch the ground. It's more cosmetic issue than real issue but I noticed that when I stated how messed up was my lander , drill fitted too much up, the drill head barely hitted the ground
  

If I remember correctly, RoverDude said in a post a while back that the drills don't check for clipping atm.

Don't think that is changed yet.

[Grossbeer]

Hey RoverDue

Been changing some of the Drills and allow twaekscale to make them 5m. And i have to say with 100T it seems really like an Oilplatform :-D excatly what i was lokking for. I have a proble tho: when i cahnge the TS config to

@PART[KA_Drill_125_01]:FOR[Karbonite]:NEEDS[TweakScale]

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

scaleFactors = 5

scaleNames = 5m

type = stack

}

}

it stops working. I wanted to force the 5m size an not just be able to scale it any size i want. Whats wrong with that config?

The next thing i tried is decreasing the drillamount to a very very slow extractionRateLandPerTon = 0.1

Filling a big tank takes months, so exactly what i was looking for :-)

The problem is the Station has to be active to be harvestin Kerbonite.

My question is: is it difficult to implement the feature to lket kerbonite be harvested while not focused on the ship itself?

ist that a feature you have planned? or do i have to dig in into the source code of kerbonite and look at TAC life support for methods of producting ressources while away?

greez

[psyper]

did mention this before but for what its worth - I have some tanks available that were created for me on an open licence - these can be used/modified for the mod as you so wish - if you need any colours let me know (I can at least modify the skins at my skill level!)

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/71204-Psyper-Multipurpose-Tanks-Co

Edited August 8, 2014 by psyper
edit: link doh

[RoverDude]

Well, I tried the mod and I have some feedbacks:

• The radial drills are mining karbonite even if they barely touch the ground. It's more cosmetic issue than real issue but I noticed that when I stated how messed up was my lander , drill fitted too much up, the drill head barely hitted the ground.
  
• Perhaps I missed it but I couldn't find any way with scansat to track karbonite flow in the air so if the scoop are fonctionnal it was a matter of luck to see them working. I guess some planets have richer karbonite particles rate.
  
• Karbonite jet engines are nicely powerful. At a point who surprised me when I saw reentry effect while flying... and saw the overheat rising so fast I couldn't save one of my 3 engines (hopefully it was the middle one). Overheat due by too fast air in the intakes. We will need precoolers
  
• Last but not least, this one.
  Classic view mode, everything is alright
  http://i.imgur.com/UiWhhUt.png
  Mapview and that's when things start to go weird
  http://i.imgur.com/aZ4nsiC.png
  

- See below RE clipping, it's on the list, but was not a priority for launch

- Air and oceanic are flat rates

- Karbonite engines are designed to overheat quickly - don't run them at full throttle, it's a design choice

- ORS bug, not my code

If I remember correctly, RoverDude said in a post a while back that the drills don't check for clipping atm.

Don't think that is changed yet.

Hey RoverDue

Been changing some of the Drills and allow twaekscale to make them 5m. And i have to say with 100T it seems really like an Oilplatform :-D excatly what i was lokking for. I have a proble tho: when i cahnge the TS config to

@PART[KA_Drill_125_01]:FOR[Karbonite]:NEEDS[TweakScale]

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

scaleFactors = 5

scaleNames = 5m

type = stack

}

}

it stops working. I wanted to force the 5m size an not just be able to scale it any size i want. Whats wrong with that config?

The next thing i tried is decreasing the drillamount to a very very slow extractionRateLandPerTon = 0.1

Filling a big tank takes months, so exactly what i was looking for :-)

The problem is the Station has to be active to be harvestin Kerbonite.

My question is: is it difficult to implement the feature to lket kerbonite be harvested while not focused on the ship itself?

ist that a feature you have planned? or do i have to dig in into the source code of kerbonite and look at TAC life support for methods of producting ressources while away?

greez

Define stops working? And right now, we do not have resource extraction on rails - it's being worked (I have a pull request but I'd like it broken out a bit more). And yeah, I'll probably go see how TAC did it, generally the question is how to simulate things like solar panels, etc.

did mention this before but for what its worth - I have some tanks available that were created for me on an open licence - these can be used/modified for the mod as you so wish - if you need any colours let me know (I can at least modify the skins at my skill level!)

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/71204-Psyper-Multipurpose-Tanks-Co

Awesome - maybe set up a set and make a parts pack and I can link it?

[TaxiService]

Delete out UmbraSpaceIndustries and OpenResourceSystem, and reinstall any USI mods from scratch. Remove Texture Replacer. Let me know of those two things help.

Hi,

I deleted all of the four Karbonite folders and added the three folders of version 0.1.2 except for the Texture Replacer. The index and null errors are still showing up BUT the errors only show up in the same landing area. I attempted more landings in other areas around the first test landing. I landed (too hard though) three times on grasslands, mountain and highlands some distance from the first landing without any error.

Sorry, I don't think I can give you some good leads on the error origins. I will come back if I encounter the same errors on other planets or more areas of Kerbin. The single area of these errors doesn't sound like serious to chase after, does it?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23644462/output_log.txt 10MB, direct txt, may freeze your browser!

Edited August 8, 2014 by TaxiService
Clarification

[Donziboy2]

Define stops working? And right now, we do not have resource extraction on rails - it's being worked (I have a pull request but I'd like it broken out a bit more). And yeah, I'll probably go see how TAC did it, generally the question is how to simulate things like solar panels, etc.

Pretty sure KSPI has on rails resource collection and usage also.

[Epic_Ninja88]

I'm having an issue with the drills where they will use my power, but won't do anything. It says they are activated but don't open or actually mine anything. Here is my mods list:

Dmagic Orbital Science, Kerbal Engineer, Fine Print, Firespitter(just the plugin), KAS, Kethane, KW Rocketry, Modstatistics, NavBall Docking Allignment, NEAR, Open Resource System, TAC, Kerbal Alarm Clock, OKS, MKS and Karbonite. Along with Module Manager 2.2.0, ModuleBounce and 000_Toolbar

Any possible conflicts?

[RoverDude]

Pretty sure KSPI has on rails resource collection and usage also.

Not for the ISRU collectors - I know this, because these are the ones Karbonite uses

[undercoveryankee]

I noticed the git commit saying that 1 EC/S=1 MW is the convention in Karbonite. Interstellar goes with 1 EC/s = 1 KW. It would be easier to use both mods together if they had a common convention. Were there specific reasons for choosing the 1 EC/s = 1 MW factor?

[RoverDude]

I noticed the git commit saying that 1 EC/S=1 MW is the convention in Karbonite. Interstellar goes with 1 EC/s = 1 KW. It would be easier to use both mods together if they had a common convention. Were there specific reasons for choosing the 1 EC/s = 1 MW factor?

MW is the conversion everyone else in KSP uses. While I will keep KSPI compatibility when I can, if there's a conflict between stock (or for that matter, the majority of the community) and KSPI, the former will win.

[nli2work]

KSPI uses MW to measure heat output. while MKS uses MW to measure electricity. Related, but not the same.

KSPI's MJ unit is totally different resource. While the direct conversion rate is 1000EC = 1 MJ, there's no way to convert directly. You have to jump through the whole Microwave beam power hoop to convert EC to MJs

I just pretend Mega Watt in Karbonite is really KiloWatt, which is what it really should be. Mega Watt is generally used to measure power generation of power plants; while consumption is generally measured in KiloWatts.

TL;DR

1ElectricCharge(KSP) = 1KiloWatt = 1MegaWatt (Karbonite/MKS) = 0.001 MegaJoule(KSPI)

[Kaal]

EDIT: Never mind, problem was user-created.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Kaal

[Donziboy2]

MW is the conversion everyone else in KSP uses. While I will keep KSPI compatibility when I can, if there's a conflict between stock (or for that matter, the majority of the community) and KSPI, the former will win.

KSPI was the first to use MW in KSP, and technically if you go by the size of the panels 1 EC is closer to <100 Watts. Fractal_UK made a compromise between reality and what would scale better with stock KSP.

KSPI generators also can convert MW/MJ to EC. 1 MW = 1000 EC

KSPI uses MW to measure heat output. while MKS uses MW to measure electricity. Related, but not the same.

KSPI's MJ unit is totally different resource. While the direct conversion rate is 1000EC = 1 MJ, there's no way to convert directly. You have to jump through the whole Microwave beam power hoop to convert EC to MJs

I just pretend Mega Watt in Karbonite is really KiloWatt, which is what it really should be. Mega Watt is generally used to measure power generation of power plants; while consumption is generally measured in KiloWatts.

TL;DR

1ElectricCharge(KSP) = 1KiloWatt = 1MegaWatt (Karbonite/MKS) = 0.001 MegaJoule(KSPI)

The reason there is no part or mechanic to convert EC to MJ's is that Fractal_UK saw no real reason to need to convert back, he made sure that you could start fusion reactors on either EC or MJ, and that things like the Antimatter Containers could use both.

The only need to do it up till recently has been solar farms, allowing people to use large amounts of normal solar panels to create MJ and transmit them.

Also nothing outside of KSPI used MJ to any real extent so it made no sense to build a massive solar array just to run an ISRU. Instead it would be far easier to get beamed power or use a reactor/generator.

Lastly it should be far easier to create fuels such as Karbonite/LF/Kethane/etc/etc then it is to say create Nuclear fuel for reactors. So wouldn't it be better to say it takes 1KW to create x Karbonite then 1MW?

Edited August 8, 2014 by Donziboy2

[bpuk]

I put that pull request up because different parts were using different conventions. My first concern was to be internally consistent. After that it's up to RoverDude what convention he prefers. The changes are purely cosmetic and I'd be happy to put up another pull request if requested.

With that said: My personal preference is for kW - or failing that having EC/s as the unit.

The stock electric charge system is... inconsistent at best - depending on the part you attempt to work from 1 EC varies between about 50 W J and 1 MJ. I've wondered in the past if one of the reasons that EC requirements are so easy to fulfil is in part due to the inconsistency.

The compromise used by Fractal_UK works out surprisingly well - especially as it feeds EC first preventing blackouts on essentials like life support. I just strip out all the stock parts that don't fit well with 1 EC = 1 kW (starting with that blasted ion engine)

[RoverDude]

If anything we can just change the number to say EC and solve the conversation

[Donziboy2]

If anything we can just change the number to say EC and solve the conversation

That works to

I'm not trying to argue:wink: It comes natural.

Also keep up the good work guys this is looking to be a very nice addition to the Kerbalverse.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Donziboy2

[PDelta41]

Perhaps this has already been asked, but I couldn't find it... Will there be any sort of ability to mine MKS/OKS resources (Ore, minerals, substrate, water) with any of the drills/extractors in Karbonite? Or do I need to plunk down a harvester anywhere I want those?

[RoverDude]

I put that pull request up because different parts were using different conventions. My first concern was to be internally consistent. After that it's up to RoverDude what convention he prefers. The changes are purely cosmetic and I'd be happy to put up another pull request if requested.

With that said: My personal preference is for kW - or failing that having EC/s as the unit.

The stock electric charge system is... inconsistent at best - depending on the part you attempt to work from 1 EC varies between about 50 W J and 1 MJ. I've wondered in the past if one of the reasons that EC requirements are so easy to fulfil is in part due to the inconsistency.

The compromise used by Fractal_UK works out surprisingly well - especially as it feeds EC first preventing blackouts on essentials like life support. I just strip out all the stock parts that don't fit well with 1 EC = 1 kW (starting with that blasted ion engine)

Gimme another pull request, I trust you

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps this has already been asked, but I couldn't find it... Will there be any sort of ability to mine MKS/OKS resources (Ore, minerals, substrate, water) with any of the drills/extractors in Karbonite? Or do I need to plunk down a harvester anywhere I want those?

Yes, next release (via MM)

[bpuk]

Gimme another pull request, I trust you

Generator is simple to change.

The drill on the other hand, is pulling that (hardcoded) string from ORS. Which may be a bit more complicated given the issues with duplicated ORS installs. I'll have another look in the morning - it _should_ really be attempting to look up an abbreviation for the ResourceToUse and using the ResourceToUse as a fallback. Not sure I want to fork it though

On an unrelated note: Did you recompile the dll between 0.1.1 and 0.1.2? (I asked earlier, but it may have been missed)

[RoverDude]

Generator is simple to change.

The drill on the other hand, is pulling that (hardcoded) string from ORS. Which may be a bit more complicated given the issues with duplicated ORS installs. I'll have another look in the morning - it _should_ really be attempting to look up an abbreviation for the ResourceToUse and using the ResourceToUse as a fallback. Not sure I want to fork it though

On an unrelated note: Did you recompile the dll between 0.1.1 and 0.1.2? (I asked earlier, but it may have been missed)

I may not have, my bad. Don't touch ORS - we'll deal with what we're dealt with

Need to work on the next release anyway so I will do a recomp then

[PDelta41]

Awesome! Thanks for the super-speedy reply!

[MightyDarkStar]

Absolutely love this mod. Super props(prop-fans!) to everyone who worked on this!

Edited August 9, 2014 by MightyDarkStar

[nli2work]

Mining Karbonite is a dirty job

[RoverDude]

Pretty

Side note - helping finish up the generator.. just spent the evening on rework and poly count reduction Textures and unwrapping next. I'm thinking we get the legs, new engines, and generator in the next pack.