The silly reason why we sent men to the Moon.

[Kevon87]

http://www.upworthy.com/do-you-know-the-silly-reason-why-america-put-a-man-on-the-moon-do-you-know-why-we-stopped-going?c=gt1

The worst part is he's absolutely right.

[Space_Kraken]

Oh, jeez, that video got me all emotional again on what could of been. Hopefully congress will get its heads out of the ground and actually

support manned space missions.

[Mitchz95]

Indeed. It's criminal how underfunded the space program is.

I think what we need is an international space agency. Band NASA, the ESA, Roscosmos, and a bunch of others together under the United Nations. Their combined budgets and manpower should be plenty enough to get stuff done without the need for competition. Not only would we return to space in a big way, it would send a clear message that sometimes you don't need competition to justify doing something big. Sometimes you just need the courage to act when no one else will.

[vger]

Stuff that's been going through my mind for years. Humans in general don't look towards the future anymore. Most seem to have 'accepted' that this is all there is, and all there ever will be. So sad.

Just bring back something. Even the World's Fair. Get people dreaming again. Stagnation kills.

[Camacha]

Do not worry, everything will be fine. China seems to understand the use of space technology, as do India and Japan. While it is true they are having their own space race, they are all nations growing at an alarming almost rate. They have the man- and womanpower, they have the work ethic, they have the resources and they are more and more having the money. They will get the ball rolling and the momentum will probably keep on going for a while. We do not need to worry about space exploration, it will come, but the Western world needs to decide whether it is going to roll over and hand over the lead just like that, or do its best, roll the dice and sees who comes out on top.

I would much prefer the latter, but I fear it will realize the predicament it is in too late.

[78stonewobble]

Holy crap... I don't think I've heard Neil deGrasse Tyson that passionate before. Heck, I'd vote for him if I could.

Coincidentally I think he's touching on something very very important, lacking in todays politicians. The ability to dream for something a little better and a little further away. Best exemplified by space programmes. To do something a little beyond worrying which economical screws to tighten or loosen dependent on party colour.

[TeeGee]

He's trying to reinvigorate a nation back into innovation... it's not going to happen. The people that take us to Mars and beyond won't come from the USA, it will come from the next empire in our society. USA has WAAAY too many other financial/political problems right now than to be concerned with interplanetary travel.

What really ticks me off is defense spending. If USA focused on building allies instead of upsetting everyone, they wouldn't need to be so afraid of being attacked by everyone. ALL of that money can go into healthcare, space travel, or in other ways to invest in the future.

As a species, we need to focus our science and efforts on getting to other worlds. It is the only way we can ensure our survival but unfortunately the people in power only think of the NOW and their own financial gain. We are too corrupt, too greedy and too warped in our thinking to set realistic goals for interplanetary/interstellar travel right now. We need to change the way society works, because if we continue the way we are now... we are well on our way to ensuring our extinction.

[Camacha]

USA has WAAAY too many other financial/political problems right now than to be concerned with interplanetary travel.

It is me or did you really miss the point, judging by that remark? The whole clip was about short term vision and people worrying only about their square meter. You need eyes on the horizon, people that dare to dream. If people work for greatness, success and economic growth will follow. Not the other way around.

Space exploration could be the goal that rallies society. Without a common dream, even as vague as a better future, the effort is much less focussed.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Camacha

[xenomorph555]

People these days don't care for space, it's all about the latest iphone.

[xcorps]

It is me or did you really miss the point, judging by that remark? The whole clip was about short term vision and people worrying only about their square meter. You need eyes on the horizon, people that dare to dream. If people work for greatness, success and economic growth will follow. Not the other way around.

Space exploration could be the goal that rallies society. Without a common dream, even as vague as a better future, the effort is much less focussed.

There's nothing great about space exploration. It's just something that requires exhaustive engineering. The world at it's present point in time has the highest standard of living (overall) in history and the most wealth that has ever existed. The future will not be changed by space travel because space travel means going to places that have nothing to offer humanity other than esoteric knowledge.

Other than the political gains, what did we really get from the moon landings? A few pounds of worthless rocks. A little bit of "science" that hasn't improved the lives of anyone. Who really cares about a genesis rock? Sure as hell not some poor slob pounding away at a phone in a cubicle all day long hoping his 401k match is good this year. Sure as hell not the 21 year old waitress with a 4 year old to feed because she made some really bad decisions on prom night.

"Space" is pretty much useless because there isn't anything there. That's why we call it space. Mars? Right. Let me know when Curiosity stumbles across some gold. Otherwise, a manned Mars mission serves nobody but scientists. And they aren't special enough to put all that time, effort and energy into making happy.

People these days don't care for space, it's all about the latest iphone.

Not an unreasonable position.

[Karriz]

There's nothing great about space exploration. It's just something that requires exhaustive engineering. The world at it's present point in time has the highest standard of living (overall) in history and the most wealth that has ever existed. The future will not be changed by space travel because space travel means going to places that have nothing to offer humanity other than esoteric knowledge.

Other than the political gains, what did we really get from the moon landings? A few pounds of worthless rocks. A little bit of "science" that hasn't improved the lives of anyone. Who really cares about a genesis rock? Sure as hell not some poor slob pounding away at a phone in a cubicle all day long hoping his 401k match is good this year. Sure as hell not the 21 year old waitress with a 4 year old to feed because she made some really bad decisions on prom night.

"Space" is pretty much useless because there isn't anything there. That's why we call it space. Mars? Right. Let me know when Curiosity stumbles across some gold. Otherwise, a manned Mars mission serves nobody but scientists. And they aren't special enough to put all that time, effort and energy into making happy.

Wait, what?

I think we need some kind of a "goal" to look forwards to. And of course this all inspires children to become scientists and engineers, who will further help improve our quality of living in the future.

The spinoff products of space exploration are used in our daily lives, help us communicate with each other, help us detect cancer, help us purify water on poor areas etc. etc. etc.

Edit: Okay, and while it's true that there isn't much in space that could directly help us here on Earth, I think it's vital that we become an interplanetary species to ensure our survival. There's an endless space out there, full of endless possibilities. It's not just a dark void that we should ignore and never look up to the sky, because the new iPhone is more exciting. That's how I see it, anyways.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Karriz

[KerikBalm]

Indeed. It's criminal how underfunded the space program is.

Its criminal how underfunded fusion research is.

To be honest, there's not much more we can do with manned spaceflight as long as we rely on chemical rockets.

Without Nerva, or various electric propulsion methods powered by nuclear reactors, we're not going anywhere.

A fusion reactor would be a quantum leap for space travel.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6195/370.full

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6195/370.summary?rss=1

[xcorps]

The spinoff products of space exploration .

There's no evidence that those things wouldn't have been developed anyway. Going to space didn't make us smarter, it didn't make us better engineers, it didn't make us suddenly grasp new concepts that we had never envisioned before.

Space exploration is an expensive hobby.

[SargeRho]

Going to space didn't make us smarter, it didn't make us better engineers, it didn't make us suddenly grasp new concepts that we had never envisioned before.

Actually yes, yes it did all of that.

To be honest, there's not much more we can do with manned spaceflight as long as we rely on chemical rockets.

Without Nerva, or various electric propulsion methods powered by nuclear reactors, we're not going anywhere.

Mars and Venus are both within chemical rocket reach, as is the Moon of course. But I agree, we need faster engines.

[Karriz]

There's no evidence that those things wouldn't have been developed anyway.

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. We can't just wait that something will be developed to improve our quality of life sometime in the future, we must actively try to reach our limits in order to get a "reason" to develop these technologies, otherwise our civilization will stagnate.

Since you're in the KSP forum, you probably get the sense of awe that space exploration creates. There's no reason to be overly pessimistic about it, it's a source of inspiration that we should use.

[Kerbart]

Can someone post an extract? I don't click on upworthy links out of principal. "At 3:22 he'll tear you apart, and at 5:44 you'll be crying." Yawn...

[xcorps]

Actually yes, yes it did all of that.

Citation needed. The species Homo Sapiens did not suddenly begin evolving because Neil stepped off Eagle. A few limited areas of engineering were expanded. A few scientific endeavors were satisfied. Some astronauts had a really nice ride.

Humanity? Not so much.

There's no reason to be overly pessimistic about it, it's a source of inspiration that we should use.

I wouldn't say I'm being pessimistic. Cynical? Sure. But the dreamy idealism spawns some pretty ludicrous ideas about what's good for humanity, and I feel compelled to respond to that. It's narcissism to the extreme to suggest that we should change the entire socio-economic structure of the world because SPACE.

Edited July 26, 2014 by xcorps

[Karriz]

I wouldn't say I'm being pessimistic. Cynical? Sure. But the dreamy idealism spawns some pretty ludicrous ideas about what's good for humanity, and I feel compelled to respond to that. It's narcissism to the extreme to suggest that we should change the entire socio-economic structure of the world because SPACE.

I'm not suggesting anything like the Venus project or stuff like that. I'm suggesting, like many others, that maybe space exploration deserves a bit more money, considering how small amount of money is currently spent on it, and science in general of course.

[xcorps]

I'm not suggesting anything like the Venus project or stuff like that. I'm suggesting, like many others, that maybe space exploration deserves a bit more money, considering how small amount of money is currently spent on it, and science in general of course.

I would absolutely agree with you, assuming the money is well spent.

I personally don't support manned missions to Mars or any future manned Moon missions (at least until escaping Earth becomes a trivial matter in terms of effort). They are fruitless and actually degrade what we can learn for the resources spent.

I'll take Cassini for 500$, Alex.

[Karriz]

I would absolutely agree with you, assuming the money is well spent.

I personally don't support manned missions to Mars or any future manned Moon missions (at least until escaping Earth becomes a trivial matter in terms of effort). They are fruitless and actually degrade what we can learn for the resources spent.

I'll take Cassini for 500$, Alex.

I agree that in terms of scientific returns, unmanned missions are more efficient. But, when it comes to inspiration and engineering achievements, manned missions are needed, too.

For sustainable manned missions, we need more reusability, which is exactly what some companies are trying to do right now. For example, SpaceX has the ultimate goal of colonizing Mars, and this goal in mind they're already making good progress in creating a reusable launch system.

Of course going to Mars will still cost quite a lot at first, but it'll never become cheap unless there's a drive to make it cheap in the first place.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Karriz

[xenomorph555]

I would absolutely agree with you, assuming the money is well spent.

I personally don't support manned missions to Mars or any future manned Moon missions (at least until escaping Earth becomes a trivial matter in terms of effort). They are fruitless and actually degrade what we can learn for the resources spent.

I'll take Cassini for 500$, Alex.

Oh look everybody, it's Lyndon B Johnson. So Mr J how much money did you spend today killing kids in Vietnam. 1 billion, 2 billion, oh what, the war costed us 1 trillion dollars. Oh well at least we have forwarded humanity, oh wait...

[Rus-Evo]

Indeed. It's criminal how underfunded the space program is.

I think what we need is an international space agency. Band NASA, the ESA, Roscosmos, and a bunch of others together under the United Nations. Their combined budgets and manpower should be plenty enough to get stuff done without the need for competition. Not only would we return to space in a big way, it would send a clear message that sometimes you don't need competition to justify doing something big. Sometimes you just need the courage to act when no one else will.

Would never work unless the agency had he power to levy taxes itself and to set its own agenda. If not then its budgets and aims would be continually changing in a crippling fashion as the above Governments change often as do their relationships with each other.

[Comrade Jenkens]

Citation needed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

Admittedly not the best source but it gives you a rough idea.

[xcorps]

For sustainable manned missions, we need more reusability, which is exactly what some companies are trying to do right now. For example, SpaceX has the ultimate goal of colonizing Mars, and this goal in mind they're already making good progress in creating a reusable launch system.

Of course going to Mars will still cost quite a lot at first, but it'll never become cheap unless there's a drive to make it cheap in the first place.

I'm good with private companies doing whatever they want in space with their own money. It's the allocation of public funds that I take issue with. There are higher priorities on Earth for those resources. When people say "argh, the stupid government needs to sped a jillion dollars for Mars!" it irritates me because it's a remarkably shortsighted demand for such a long term goal. People live their lives on Earth. Right here, right now. If the government wasn't in such terrible fiscal shape and was running on surplus funds and the needs of the citizenry were met, I'd say "sure, spend away". But that's not the case.

You can't convince me that an ISS study of low gravity effects on kidney stones is worth spending public money on. It's just not going to happen. Especially if that same money could be spent on things like Genesis. (Only 254$ million for that probe)

[xenomorph555]

I'm good with private companies doing whatever they want in space with their own money. It's the allocation of public funds that I take issue with. There are higher priorities on Earth for those resources. When people say "argh, the stupid government needs to sped a jillion dollars for Mars!" it irritates me because it's a remarkably shortsighted demand for such a long term goal. People live their lives on Earth. Right here, right now. If the government wasn't in such terrible fiscal shape and was running on surplus funds and the needs of the citizenry were met, I'd say "sure, spend away". But that's not the case.

You can't convince me that an ISS study of low gravity effects on kidney stones is worth spending public money on. It's just not going to happen. Especially if that same money could be spent on things like Genesis. (Only 254$ million for that probe)

Well you never know, maybe that kidney stone research will lead to some sort of conclusion that will help people with kidney stones. Or maybe the T-cells research will lead to a better way to help people with cancer. The point is space DOES help people, it is merely taken for granted leading to some to claim that they know better then the 1000's that have come before them.