Community Resource Pack [WIP]

[Guest]

It's surprisingly simple. Any non-stock resource had an origin or canonical source. It's up to that canonical source to determine their rates, etc. (i.e. TAC-LS is the canonical source right now for Food). So if someone decides they want to change the value for food... they do so at their own risk, since there's a pecking order to how resources are loaded. I consider point #2 'suggestions'. So if you are making a brand new mod, please don't make another value for the weight of Metal - Extraplanetary Launchpads already has that one covered. IF someone blows the values out of the water and enough people complain, I expect someone will end up changing their stuff.

Ah, so this is mainly a reference for modders. Fair enough, I should take the time to add the Real Fuels' resources in, if that is desired.

I should also point out that the realism folks will change values, if anyone decides to actually make a realistic ISRU mod (I've given it some thought), because the few existing resource name collisions don't match up densities.

[fatcargo]

@RoverDude : Ok. Please review again my edited post.

[passinglurker]

Even if CRP doesn't "enforce" a standard you are still asking people to get along or at the very least stop making their own spins on hydrogen of which it isn't clear who used hydrogen first. The problem is there are two very different schools of thought advocating for what hydrogen should be. One would want things to be purely reflective of real world values regardless of how impractical to store and use it makes the resource cause the challenge is understandably part of the fun and the other which wants things to reflect what they perceive to be kerbals values and would make compromises for the sake of practicality and to not have to turn KSP into "hydrogen transport simulator" just to use fuel cells. If a standard is implied to that follows one school of thought over the other then half the people who see it will disregard it and continue to make their own spins on hydrogen. The way this is stopped or at least curbed is by implying different standards for each of the two schools of thought.

[fatcargo]

@passinglurker : I understand points both by you and RoverDude. RoverDude though had a different, but not wrong, idea about resources. They may not be enforced, but there will be a popular pressure to keep basic properties or resources and their relations within reason. At least, that's what we all hope for.

The very existence of CRP (or ORS) is a big plus for everyone. I just hope that in future it does not stop there.

Edited August 8, 2014 by fatcargo
typo

[RoverDude]

Even if CRP doesn't "enforce" a standard you are still asking people to get along or at the very least stop making their own spins on hydrogen of which it isn't clear who used hydrogen first. The problem is there are two very different schools of thought advocating for what hydrogen should be. One would want things to be purely reflective of real world values regardless of how impractical to store and use it makes the resource cause the challenge is understandably part of the fun and the other which wants things to reflect what they perceive to be kerbals values and would make compromises for the sake of practicality and to not have to turn KSP into "hydrogen transport simulator" just to use fuel cells. If a standard is implied to that follows one school of thought over the other then half the people who see it will disregard it and continue to make their own spins on hydrogen. The way this is stopped or at least curbed is by implying different standards for each of the two schools of thought.

I'm not going to stop someone from making their own spin. A better question would be to see which mods currently use Hydrogen and have signed up, and it looks like Universal Storage is the one I have. But for the sake of argument, let's say a new mod came on board that allowed the harvesting of, say, Potassium. Perhaps in relation to the Banana For Scale mod. If that modder said 'hey, I want to be part of the CRP and here's my new resource, and I will at the same time not stomp over other stuff' then rock on. If, later, someone making the RealWorldBananas mod feels that the Banana For Scale mod has it all wrong, and makes their own mod, I'm not going to even try to stop them. But it may cause people to have issues with their mod, at which point I'd say 'sorry, we're not compatible with RealWorldBananas', and KSP will just do what it does today... it takes the first one it finds without erroring out, and people get confused.

At the same point, if someone said 'Hey, here are twenty new resources... oh, but I have no mod to back it up' I would say 'thank you, come see me when you have a release thread'. Otherwise I will get swarmed with theorycraft.

Now, back to Hydrogen. If someone were to say 'Hey, mod X also uses Hydrogen and has done so for decades' then we're in a point where we ask folks why they use the units they do and try to sort it out, but in the end there will only ever be one Hydrogen in CRP. So someone is going to be incompatible. Again, same issue we have today. And IMO adding even more resources and asking mods to make some pretty serious breaking changes is a lot less likely than people making the less breaking change of a cost or mass modification.

[RoverDude]

@passinglurker : I understand points both by you and RoverDude. RoverDude though had a different, but not wrong, idea about resources. They may not be enforced, but there will be a popular pressure to keep basic properties or resources and their relations within reason. At least, that's what we all hope for.

The very existence of CRP (or ORS) is a big plus for everyone. I just hope that in future it does not stop there.

Honesltly, I think trying to make this more than a 'lets not break ORS' and 'here's a reference list of resources a lot of people use' is as far as I plan on going with scope. Anything beyond that puts this project in a bad place that I'd rather not take it.

[RoverDude]

@RoverDude : About duplicate keys - can CRP identify which part/plugin requested resource registration ?

If so, try to add another key containing a source name to create a GUID-like key. Then identify duplications and deal with them. At risk of looking dumb and obvious, i had to post this.

I don't control ORS. So even if I had a fix for this (which raises other issues - i.e. which map do you use? How do you display it? What do I call it?), it would be moot since anyone using KSPI would quickly cause everything to explode again. 'Willow bending with the wind, not the oak that gets blown over' and all that jazz.

[Gaalidas]

Oh that makes complete sense actually... I mean, in a universe where small green creatures, with heads that are way out of proportion with their bodies, can fly though space with rockets made up from parts they found in a dumpster that some unknown entity put there (and probably for good reason)... well, turning Xenon Gas and Fluffy Unicorns into Liquid Fuel (a rather vague description of a fuel source) makes complete sense in just about every way except for that teeny bit of rationalization that my brain insists on complaining to me about.

[fatcargo]

... well, turning Xenon Gas and Fluffy Unicorns into Liquid Fuel (a rather vague description of a fuel source) makes complete sense in just about every way except for that teeny bit of rationalization that my brain insists on complaining to me about.

And that's way RoverDude is running in opposite direction from this issue. I know i would. There is no recognized authority, people won't just accept some table of numbers. RoverDude does not wish to be a judge and jury.

@RoverDude : just add that "resource overlap" warning and let's get started. Otherwise nothing will get done.

[RoverDude]

And that's way RoverDude is running in opposite direction from this issue. I know i would. There is no recognized authority, people won't just accept some table of numbers. RoverDude does not wish to be a judge and jury.

@RoverDude : just add that "resource overlap" warning and let's get started. Otherwise nothing will get done.

Already started, and I expect folks are already used to my track record of stuff getting done

The first cut will be going out with the next major release of Karbonite and MKS/OKS (since I have to fix all of my own stuff to work off of a common core).

[fatcargo]

Duhh RoverDude, i just can't keep quiet

I got more sense-and-logic issues with resources in KSP.

There is a underlying problem that i almost touched on while discussiong relations between resources (chemistry and nuclear reactions), but i think i got it this time. Both for gameplay and technical under-the-hood stuff.

It concerns resource abundance within a given domain during extraction and later storage.

Example.

If on Kerbin there are present Karbonite and Metal, there is a question of how to discern what is extracted and utilized. If player deployes a drill that removes a material from surface of lithosphere, then that material needs to be refined into target resources Karbonite and Metal. But, if there is a container that is filled with this raw material which is then transported to say Mun and converted, there is no underlying mechanism that will remember what that raw material really contains. You use drill from one pack that mines Ore for Metal and Silica, and a refinery/extractor from other pack that produces Karbonite from that same Ore. This is a problem.

You could solve this by letting part/plugin pack authors solve this on their own, but that could make a "bad advertisement" not only for their addons but for yours too.

One way to do this without getting yourself too much involved is to define the following.

1) All resources are extracted directly in their usable form (ie drill and converter in one) OR,

2) Refining resources requires that raw resource has a "memory" of how much of each final resource is present so it can be to be correctly refined.

3) CRP defines three basic resources from which everything else is refined : Ore, Liquid and Gas. Each is a compound resource which a pack author can choose to use in their addon to make it more real or skip that altogether and opt for direct extraction. This should be a mandatory minimum on which all other resources rely on, it is always present.

4) When extraction takes place, all available resources are extracted in RATIOS of total volume available. If a drill removes 40 Ore per minute, and Karbonite and Metal are present in concetrations of K=15% and M=10%, then you get 40 x 0.15 = 6 Karbonite per minute and 40 x 0.10 = 4 Metal per minute. Ratios are determined by combining abundance of all materials for a given place. This can present a problem if a resource is overabundant to a point that a ratio is made worse for all other resources, especially when a new resource is introduced in game.

5) All resources need to be "registered" with CRP separately from addons that utilize them. Take Kethane for example. If player has Kethane and Extraplanetary Launchpads, and decides later to replace Kethane with some other resource pack, he/she will effectively remove all underlying resource structure required to keep EL working. So, resources that are currently used anywhere in game must be tracked and presented to player, thus enabling a proper removal of part addons without crippling any other addons relying on a same resource.

6) All parts which directly interact with resource domains (ohh, what an expert wording ! i kill me sometimes) should follow this guideline : Ore is extracted with Drill, Liquid with Pump and Gas with Intake. Shapes and sizes are arbitrary ofcourse.

7) All resource extraction parts should either make target resource as their output or leave it to player which resource is extracted.

8) All resource extraction and refinery parts should respect resource ratios and extract a corresponding amount per unit of time from their respective sources, as described in item 4.

9) All resource containers that hold Ore, should accept Ore resource from CRP itself, the only resource that is guaranteed to hold target resources in proper ratios. If a resource container holds Ore from several domains (planets, moons, asteroids), container will have a total Ore amount and Ore itself will contain target resources in amounts as they are extracted with Drills. Same for Liquid and Gas containers.

10) If new target resource is introduced later in game, all basic resources (see item 3) are updated accordingly, thus enabling player to seamlessly utilize new addons that use new resources.

11) Please refer to old Resource Flow Diagram for future-proofing CRP.

Since you are author of Karbonite and MKS/OKS addons, you can take and adapt the above guidelines into yor addons as example for others to follow. Lead by example, without forcing anyone.

Again, i tried keeping short and to the point, though no guarantees for later

I hope i hit it closer to home this time.

[Paul Kingtiger]

The two differences I see are the cost of water (not a big deal), and the density of oxygen (a big deal)

Why is US oxygen ten times as dense?

It's not. Comparing the above to the TAC LS resources in the latest release they are:

TAC LS
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxygen
  density = 0.0000014100
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 0.000055836
}

US_Core
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxygen
  density = 0.000001429
  unitCost = 0.015
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}

There is a slight difference, which I'm talking to Taranis about, based on what we're using as Standard Pressure and Temperature.

Turns out I'm using a slightly older definition of 0c at 1atm where as he is using 0c at 1bar. The difference is minor but discussions are under way to conform, which will probably mean me changing to the newer definition with the next version of US.

[landeTLS]

You know you cant actually herd cats right?

[RoverDude]

It's not. Comparing the above to the TAC LS resources in the latest release they are:

TAC LS
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxygen
  density = 0.0000014100
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 0.000055836
}

US_Core
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxygen
  density = 0.000001429
  unitCost = 0.015
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}

There is a slight difference, which I'm talking to Taranis about, based on what we're using as Standard Pressure and Temperature.

Turns out I'm using a slightly older definition of 0c at 1atm where as he is using 0c at 1bar. The difference is minor but discussions are under way to conform, which will probably mean me changing to the newer definition with the next version of US.

Awesome! Thanks! And yep looks like I missed a decimal place Age, eyes, and all that jazz.

Duhh RoverDude, i just can't keep quiet

I got more sense-and-logic issues with resources in KSP.

There is a underlying problem that i almost touched on while discussiong relations between resources (chemistry and nuclear reactions), but i think i got it this time. Both for gameplay and technical under-the-hood stuff.

It concerns resource abundance within a given domain during extraction and later storage.

Example.

If on Kerbin there are present Karbonite and Metal, there is a question of how to discern what is extracted and utilized. If player deployes a drill that removes a material from surface of lithosphere, then that material needs to be refined into target resources Karbonite and Metal. But, if there is a container that is filled with this raw material which is then transported to say Mun and converted, there is no underlying mechanism that will remember what that raw material really contains. You use drill from one pack that mines Ore for Metal and Silica, and a refinery/extractor from other pack that produces Karbonite from that same Ore. This is a problem.

You could solve this by letting part/plugin pack authors solve this on their own, but that could make a "bad advertisement" not only for their addons but for yours too.

One way to do this without getting yourself too much involved is to define the following.

1) All resources are extracted directly in their usable form (ie drill and converter in one) OR,

2) Refining resources requires that raw resource has a "memory" of how much of each final resource is present so it can be to be correctly refined.

3) CRP defines three basic resources from which everything else is refined : Ore, Liquid and Gas. Each is a compound resource which a pack author can choose to use in their addon to make it more real or skip that altogether and opt for direct extraction. This should be a mandatory minimum on which all other resources rely on, it is always present.

4) When extraction takes place, all available resources are extracted in RATIOS of total volume available. If a drill removes 40 Ore per minute, and Karbonite and Metal are present in concetrations of K=15% and M=10%, then you get 40 x 0.15 = 6 Karbonite per minute and 40 x 0.10 = 4 Metal per minute. Ratios are determined by combining abundance of all materials for a given place. This can present a problem if a resource is overabundant to a point that a ratio is made worse for all other resources, especially when a new resource is introduced in game.

5) All resources need to be "registered" with CRP separately from addons that utilize them. Take Kethane for example. If player has Kethane and Extraplanetary Launchpads, and decides later to replace Kethane with some other resource pack, he/she will effectively remove all underlying resource structure required to keep EL working. So, resources that are currently used anywhere in game must be tracked and presented to player, thus enabling a proper removal of part addons without crippling any other addons relying on a same resource.

6) All parts which directly interact with resource domains (ohh, what an expert wording ! i kill me sometimes) should follow this guideline : Ore is extracted with Drill, Liquid with Pump and Gas with Intake. Shapes and sizes are arbitrary ofcourse.

7) All resource extraction parts should either make target resource as their output or leave it to player which resource is extracted.

8) All resource extraction and refinery parts should respect resource ratios and extract a corresponding amount per unit of time from their respective sources, as described in item 4.

9) All resource containers that hold Ore, should accept Ore resource from CRP itself, the only resource that is guaranteed to hold target resources in proper ratios. If a resource container holds Ore from several domains (planets, moons, asteroids), container will have a total Ore amount and Ore itself will contain target resources in amounts as they are extracted with Drills. Same for Liquid and Gas containers.

10) If new target resource is introduced later in game, all basic resources (see item 3) are updated accordingly, thus enabling player to seamlessly utilize new addons that use new resources.

11) Please refer to old Resource Flow Diagram for future-proofing CRP.

Since you are author of Karbonite and MKS/OKS addons, you can take and adapt the above guidelines into yor addons as example for others to follow. Lead by example, without forcing anyone.

Again, i tried keeping short and to the point, though no guarantees for later

I hope i hit it closer to home this time.

Heya, read this a couple of times.

So the intent of CRP is not to dictate resource interactions, etc. - it just has a primary and a secondary goal. Anything beyond that is left as an exercise for the players/mod makers.

Primary: Ensure ORS maps do not collide. So if I define Substrate and it's disposition, nobody else should also define it with a different map. Now whether they choose to convert substrate into fluffy unicorns, or substrate into silicates, that's their call provided they stick within conservation of mass. Could I have two mods that both use silicate, with one converting it into unicorns with a net loss of 20% and another converting it into silicates with the same ratio (resulting in 60% overage)? Sure. But that's outside of the bounds of what this mod does, and can be explained away that you are harvesting silicate-rich or unicorn-rich materials. An example of this is how Asteroidal Resources handles conversions.

In short, anything beyond making sure we do not break eachother's stuff is out of scope for the primary goal of CRP. If only this is achieved, life is good. Getting folks to agree is like herding cats as it is, and having your stuff crash is a fantastic motivator for cooperation.

Secondary: Play nice and not stomp over eachother's resources. This is just a list of materials used by multiple mods, with agreed to densities and also (to be added) conventions - i.e. one unit is 1L or 5L. Nothing forces folks to play nice, but it does make life easier. If this is achieved I'll be very happy, but it is still a secondary goal.

So I agree that there are tons of loopholes, etc. in KSP resources and Khemistry in general, but that's a huge problem that is well beyond the scope here to solve. I just want stuff not to crash

- - - Updated - - -

You know you cant actually herd cats right?

Challenge accepted.

[boribori]

The only gripe I have with ORS is that it assumes LiquidFuel is liquid hydrogen which I think is a little silly, powering jets with liquid hydrogen lol, and it means that the liquid hydrogen powered electric drives in near future now run on LiquidFuel but whatever.

This had been bothering me for a while the other way around. As far as I know liquid Hydrogen and Oxidizer is the most common rocket fuel. So I assumed liquid fuel was liquid Hydrogen. Until I started building jets.... So stock liquid fuel is Kerosine and stock rocket fuel is Kerosine and Oxidzer. It would be nice if ORS could reflect this.

[RoverDude]

This has been bothering me for a while the other way around. As far as I know liquid Hydrogen and Oxidizer is the most common rocket fuel. So I assumed liquid fuel was liquid Hydrogen. Until I started building jets.... So stock liquid fuel is Kerosine and stock rocket fuel is Kerosine and Oxidzer. It would be nice if ORS could reflect this.

IMO Hydrogen should be hydrogen

Right now I do not bundle the example atmo stuff that comes with ORS (it's bundled with KSPI). I would not mind talking to Fractal about it as there are some oddities I have questions on, but he's MIA at the moment.

[fatcargo]

Heya, read this a couple of times.

So the intent of CRP is not to dictate resource interactions, etc. - it just has a primary and a secondary goal. Anything beyond that is left as an exercise for the players/mod makers.

...

Umm i tried to make it more in direction of resource availability then their properties and interactions and i'm sorry i made you read the whole thing more than once. That's why i tried to break it up into items to divide-and-conquer. Also i tried to steer away from controlling them, just to give them basic structure.

As for primary and secondary goals, i know this issue is not directly CRP-related, but it does derive from it and may affect CRP's status in eyes of a player, a subjective and not a real issue. I just wanted to help you have a proposed consistency in your addons that rely on CRP, thus promoting logic in their utilization.

Primary: Ensure ORS maps do not collide. So if I define Substrate and it's disposition, nobody else should also define it with a different map. Now whether they choose to convert substrate into fluffy unicorns, or substrate into silicates, that's their call provided they stick within conservation of mass. Could I have two mods that both use silicate, with one converting it into unicorns with a net loss of 20% and another converting it into silicates with the same ratio (resulting in 60% overage)? Sure. But that's outside of the bounds of what this mod does, and can be explained away that you are harvesting silicate-rich or unicorn-rich materials. An example of this is how Asteroidal Resources handles conversions.

In short, anything beyond making sure we do not break eachother's stuff is out of scope for the primary goal of CRP. If only this is achieved, life is good. Getting folks to agree is like herding cats as it is, and having your stuff crash is a fantastic motivator for cooperation.

I have to admit i am one of the cats I can see you repeated the statement about primary goal. Again i am fine with it, i just wanted to help you establish minimal non-mandatory structure within CRP that will ensure newly introduced resources do not disrupt existing ones during their extraction and subsequent manipulation. Basic Ore, Liquid and Gas raw materials are placeholders that keep things in order enough to help both addon makers and players alike to have some sense of direction.

Also, making sure resources are not defined within plugin/pack itself but rather inside CRP is a way to make sure people can switch between resource extraction addons without removing the resources introduced with those addons and not breaking other addons that may be also depending on those resources.

Funny enough i've read the topic on Asteroid Resources, it has much in common with i'm trying to say. I guess using common sense inevitably leads to similar if not identical conclusions.

Secondary: Play nice and not stomp over eachother's resources. This is just a list of materials used by multiple mods, with agreed to densities and also (to be added) conventions - i.e. one unit is 1L or 5L. Nothing forces folks to play nice, but it does make life easier. If this is achieved I'll be very happy, but it is still a secondary goal.

The resource density per site is what i addressed too - there has to be a way to make all resoruces available disrupting each other's availability (wording is terrible yet somehow still appropriate).

So I agree that there are tons of loopholes, etc. in KSP resources and Khemistry in general, but that's a huge problem that is well beyond the scope here to solve. I just want stuff not to crash

Well, wether you want it or not, just like all other resource addon authors you took that burden of fixing it to a some degree of functionality.

One more question : are you willing to reconsider my suggestions (about resource chemistry and previous) if i move/post them in topics for Asteroid Resources and MKS/OKS ? Will they be helpful there ? I'm only trying to help.

[RoverDude]

Umm i tried to make it more in direction of resource availability then their properties and interactions and i'm sorry i made you read the whole thing more than once. That's why i tried to break it up into items to divide-and-conquer. Also i tried to steer away from controlling them, just to give them basic structure.

As for primary and secondary goals, i know this issue is not directly CRP-related, but it does derive from it and may affect CRP's status in eyes of a player, a subjective and not a real issue. I just wanted to help you have a proposed consistency in your addons that rely on CRP, thus promoting logic in their utilization.

I have to admit i am one of the cats I can see you repeated the statement about primary goal. Again i am fine with it, i just wanted to help you establish minimal non-mandatory structure within CRP that will ensure newly introduced resources do not disrupt existing ones during their extraction and subsequent manipulation. Basic Ore, Liquid and Gas raw materials are placeholders that keep things in order enough to help both addon makers and players alike to have some sense of direction.

Also, making sure resources are not defined within plugin/pack itself but rather inside CRP is a way to make sure people can switch between resource extraction addons without removing the resources introduced with those addons and not breaking other addons that may be also depending on those resources.

Funny enough i've read the topic on Asteroid Resources, it has much in common with i'm trying to say. I guess using common sense inevitably leads to similar if not identical conclusions.

The resource density per site is what i addressed too - there has to be a way to make all resoruces available disrupting each other's availability (wording is terrible yet somehow still appropriate).

Well, wether you want it or not, just like all other resource addon authors you took that burden of fixing it to a some degree of functionality.

One more question : are you willing to reconsider my suggestions (about resource chemistry and previous) if i move/post them in topics for Asteroid Resources and MKS/OKS ? Will they be helpful there ? I'm only trying to help.

Totally get that you are trying to help, but to be very clear, I have zero intention of attempting to dictate/encourage/etc. anything at all beyond 'Don't crash KSP please' and 'If several mods already have the same resource definition for something, please be nice and reuse it'. Now, for all of this, there will still be just a single definition, so mods will not have to define their own versions if they take this dependency (or they can still do their own definitions as long as they follow rule one, and try to follow rule two). But that's pretty much it.

If anyone wants to begin their own discussions and expand upon this, awesome! rock on! But I have every intention of keeping my goals very very specific. Or, in otherwords, if everyone mutually agrees, for example, on the density of oxygen (which we're very close on), I'll reflect that mutual consensus. But I'm not going to suggest what that density should be beyond selecting a default if no consensus can be reached.

[Paul Kingtiger]

Awesome! Thanks! And yep looks like I missed a decimal place Age, eyes, and all that jazz.

No worries, I spent a good 10 minutes triple checking everything to make sure I hadn't done the same

[ArkaelDren]

The basic idea of a "standardization" is not just a good idea, or even someones opinion of "control". It is the ONLY way to handle a community driven mod or source code that has any hope of working correctly. (RoverDude) don't ever think for a moment you should have to explain this in great detail to this community. With out a proposed standard, it would become a complete nightmare in no time at all. So good job on the creation process and implementation of something I have been waiting for since I altered my first cfg several years ago with KSP. I want to Model and make a few parts so badly I cant stand it, but after playing with blender for 10 minutes, a little piece of me died. I'm not the worst hammer in the tool box, but damn it if I'm not going to have to find a college course, at our local community college, just to follow this dream of making parts. Sorry, long story got longer, thx again for the tons of work you have been putting in lately man, great job.

As always from Oregon, you modders make my KSP awesome.

Dren

[boribori]

IMO Hydrogen should be hydrogen

That's what I'm saying, Hydrogen is Hydrogen and I think that Liquid Fuel is Kerosine. But some(many?) mods treat Liquid Fuel as if it was Hydrogen. And since Liquid Fuel is probably the most used resource in the game I think it would be nice if all mods could agree on what it is. And I think this is the right place for that.

I'm not saying it's your responsibility, all modders should work on this. This is a great initiative, and I hope all modders will get together here and all mods will be compatible for eternity. Maybe mods that use this standard could put something behind the name as "CRP0.1/ORS1.1 compliant" so players could easily pick the right mod for them. And Modders who don't agree with this system can get together and create their own system and then we can easily choose just which "mod pack" we want.

And have you looked at the Biomass mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53009-0-23-BioMass-Renewable-Bio-Fuel-Modules) for inclusion?

[RoverDude]

That's what I'm saying, Hydrogen is Hydrogen and I think that Liquid Fuel is Kerosine. But some(many?) mods treat Liquid Fuel as if it was Hydrogen. And since Liquid Fuel is probably the most used resource in the game I think it would be nice if all mods could agree on what it is. And I think this is the right place for that.

I'm not saying it's your responsibility, all modders should work on this. This is a great initiative, and I hope all modders will get together here and all mods will be compatible for eternity. Maybe mods that use this standard could put something behind the name as "CRP0.1/ORS1.1 compliant" so players could easily pick the right mod for them. And Modders who don't agree with this system can get together and create their own system and then we can easily choose just which "mod pack" we want.

And have you looked at the Biomass mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53009-0-23-BioMass-Renewable-Bio-Fuel-Modules) for inclusion?

I think we're saying two very different things I have no problem saying that Hydrogen is Hydrogen, but if Mod-A converts it to Liquid Fuel and Mod B converts it to Fluffy Unicorns, that would be out of scope And yep I do hope that folks hop on board and play nice with eachother. Having curation over a couple of large mods helps

[SpeedyB]

If I understand this thread correctly the plan is to convince modders to use a standard resource library but not to control what they do with them in their mod.

This whole thing reminds me a bit of the Minecraft modding community's ore standardization. Almost all Minecraft mods integrate with an ore dictionary mod. This ensures compatibility between dozens of mods. It would be great if the community can come together and get things standardized in a similar fashion.

[RoverDude]

If I understand this thread correctly the plan is to convince modders to use a standard resource library but not to control what they do with them in their mod.

This whole thing reminds me a bit of the Minecraft modding community's ore standardization. Almost all Minecraft mods integrate with an ore dictionary mod. This ensures compatibility between dozens of mods. It would be great if the community can come together and get things standardized in a similar fashion.

That's exactly it.

[Bilfr3d]

Just an idea. Also include the flowMode, so that we don't end up with differing flow modes for the same resource.