New SLS vs Asparagus

[supercuttingtools]

My guess is the SLS was added as a sort of precursor to a more realistic aerodynamics system (not that I'm saying we'll be getting one soon, just in the future). As many have been keen to point out in other threads, most asparagus designs tend to be somewhat less than aerodynamic. The SLS should allow us to have more typical launch vehicles but keep our heavy payloads.

[merendel]

Asparagus does not need to be non aerodynamic. I can make a 6 syemetry asparagus that will fly with FAR, probably the most realistic model we can hope to get in the game for some time. you just have to make things taller and not flatter. The only reason alot of designs end up being pancakes is because we are not punished for it and sometimes it was needed due to lack of engines powerful enough to lift a huge payload. SLS didnt kill asparagus like some thought, it just reduced the number of parts and stages we needed to lift a payload, allowing for bigger payloads.

SLS came about for several reasons. One, it was tied to the nasa pack and the asteroid redirect. Two, if we were going to redirect the larger asteroids we needed the ability to launch huge payloads and the smaller rockets were just not up to the task short of huge pancake monstrosities with thousands of parts. Three, people just wanted the larger parts and were turning to mods to get them. It was just silly haveing to strap togeather dozens of engiens just to get enough thrust to lift off so they made us bigger parts.

[worir4]

Still...need...MOAR BOOSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!

[KingPhantom]

Captain? New SLS?

[MWJ]

Captain? New SLS?

The new NASA 3.5m Parts added with version 23.5 (Asteroid Redirect Mission)

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

Edited August 7, 2014 by MWJ

[No one]

SLS is too prohibitively expensive to use in career. It's much cheaper just to make an asparapancake out of mainsails.

[KingPhantom]

ah SLS = heaviest rocketery

i use them in 0.24.2 carrer since i was over 5 to 7 mio funds...

to thest the KR-2L in eve orbig gave me 5 mio. so i have enough to put everything with this big rockets into orbit and beyond

[ansaman]

SLS is too prohibitively expensive to use in career. It's much cheaper just to make an asparapancake out of mainsails.

I have never had a problem with money since I spend a lot of time making upper stages light as possible. What I found to be expensive were the gravioli sensors. I went to Duna-Ike and took numerous sensors since I planned on covering as many biomes and science as possible without transmitting. Just consider: Ike High, Low and Surface and Duna High, Low and Surface PLUS duplicates for the high value stuff (in other words I run some stuff twice). Just consider that there are FIFTEEN Mun biomes (I never knew there was a Northern Basin) and I may have missed some.

[Kasuha]

My guess is the SLS was added as a sort of precursor to a more realistic aerodynamics system (not that I'm saying we'll be getting one soon, just in the future). As many have been keen to point out in other threads, most asparagus designs tend to be somewhat less than aerodynamic. The SLS should allow us to have more typical launch vehicles but keep our heavy payloads.

SLS parts were added in 0.23.5 that brought in NASA mission (asteroid redirect) and NASA parts along with it, among others to provide the necessary horsepower.

They are powerful enough that for certain range of payloads you don't need to build an asparagus lifter if you can use these which is a welcome side effect but they definitely don't replace asparagus. You can make waaaay more powerful lifters now if you asparagus stage SLS parts.

On the other hand, I have not built a single asparagus staged rocket since i started playing 0.24. Nothing is killing asparagus design (and staged rockets in general) more efficiently than money you lose on each part that burns in atmosphere ... especially if you don't lose these money if you bring your parts back to the KSC.

[ansaman]

Nothing is killing asparagus design (and staged rockets in general) more efficiently than money you lose on each part that burns in atmosphere ... especially if you don't lose these money if you bring your parts back to the KSC.

VERY good point. The money in career is going to force folks to stop building monstrosities. (MOAR BOOSTERS !) Many times adding an expensive booster doesn't get much change in velocity. Trimming the payload works fast.

[Kasuha]

The dream is great but reality is harsh. Reusable rocket parts in real life don't cost that much less than non-reusable. If KSP was realistic, it wouldn't give more than about 5% in refunds.

[Jouni]

SLS parts didn't kill asparagus, but stronger joints did. Lifting large payloads used to be hard, so it made sense to make rockets as small and as efficient as possible. Now we can build simple rockets, or even concentrate on aesthetics, because pretty much any design can be scaled up to lift hundreds of tonnes.

Asparagus has become a specialized staging system for Eve landers. You can use it elsewhere, but there's little reason to do so, unless you specifically want to build retro style rockets with asparagus staging.

[KerbMav]

The dream is great but reality is harsh. Reusable rocket parts in real life don't cost that much less than non-reusable. If KSP was realistic, it wouldn't give more than about 5% in refunds.

This. I figure balancing career mode will be quite a feat, as it has to accommodate both playstyles somehow: Return as much as you can! vs. Just drop it!

If contracts pay well and parts are affordable, the returners will swim in money and have no challenge, if contracts pay less and parts are expensive, returning stuff will become mandatory, if you like it/deem it realistic (in your own KSP-universe) or not.

[Kasuha]

SLS parts didn't kill asparagus, but stronger joints did. Lifting large payloads used to be hard, so it made sense to make rockets as small and as efficient as possible. Now we can build simple rockets, or even concentrate on aesthetics, because pretty much any design can be scaled up to lift hundreds of tonnes.

Asparagus has become a specialized staging system for Eve landers. You can use it elsewhere, but there's little reason to do so, unless you specifically want to build retro style rockets with asparagus staging.

I am pretty sure you can build non-asparagus Eve lifter too. Asparagus is just more efficient and therefore lighter (and cheaper) than non-asparagus lifter.

If you don't take funds into account or if you compare different staged designs, asparagus is still the most efficient one. It just can't compare with SSTO technology when it comes up to funds.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Kasuha

[montyben101]

Never use asparagus and never will

[Frank_G]

I never liked complex bulky asparagus setups. I find the construction annoying and not much of a challenge. Its more of a puzzle game than building a rocket. I sometimes use it, where 2 LFBs feed into the main stage, but nothing more. And as the new SLS parts can easily lift 200 tons into orbit with being nothing more than a simple big rocket, i really like the SLS parts. And i love to concentrate on complex payloads... Much more fun than to draw fuel lines and setup decoupler madness in endless stages. I cant imagine KSP without them anymore.

[KingPhantom]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130824200436/clashofclans/images/c/ce/Why_not_both%3F.jpg

i use SLS parts in a asparagus staged lifter!!!

Edited August 7, 2014 by Supernovy
removed image

[rkman]

I never liked complex bulky asparagus setups.

Me neither. If i use asparagus (it still is more fuel efficient than non-asparagus) it is a simple one main stack + 2 liquid fuel asparagus boosters setup, for which i will just as happily use SLS parts as any other parts. That is just as aerodynamic as the same parts without asparagus configuration, only difference is two fuel lines.

[Yarrula]

I never liked asparagus designs, as they just didn't feel "rocket-y" enough for me. I like 2-3 stages to LKO at most, each dumping as much as possible at once in a glorious display of explosions and sepatrons. At best, I was onion staging, dropping the outer ring of boosters all at once. I like the fact that the stock parts give me the choice whether to go complex and fuel efficient or overly large and simple. We CAN have both. It all depends on the size of your payload and patience in setting up stages of radial decouplers.

[Wanderfound]

I never liked asparagus designs, as they just didn't feel "rocket-y" enough for me. I like 2-3 stages to LKO at most, each dumping as much as possible at once in a glorious display of explosions and sepatrons. At best, I was onion staging, dropping the outer ring of boosters all at once. I like the fact that the stock parts give me the choice whether to go complex and fuel efficient or overly large and simple. We CAN have both. It all depends on the size of your payload and patience in setting up stages of radial decouplers.

Heh; I reverted to an onion-staged booster this evening because I'd gotten sick of the hassle of bolting dozens of SRBs together as my first stage. A couple of fuel lines, some Rockomax 64's and a few Mainsails may cost twice as much as the SRB equivalent, but it's a lot quicker to assemble.

[Yarrula]

Heh; I reverted to an onion-staged booster this evening because I'd gotten sick of the hassle of bolting dozens of SRBs together as my first stage. A couple of fuel lines, some Rockomax 64's and a few Mainsails may cost twice as much as the SRB equivalent, but it's a lot quicker to assemble.

I built my SRB first stage once, then saved it as a sub assembly. It has 7 of the largest SRBs from the NASA pack. I tweak the thrust depending on what I'm launching. Since that covers about 90% of my missions, I'm ok with the occasional one-off bit of construction when required.

[Wanderfound]

I built my SRB first stage once, then saved it as a sub assembly. It has 7 of the largest SRBs from the NASA pack. I tweak the thrust depending on what I'm launching. Since that covers about 90% of my missions, I'm ok with the occasional one-off bit of construction when required.

I'm surprised that you don't get overheating issues with so many solids strapped in tight. I'd been using this...

[Yarrula]

I'm surprised that you don't get overheating issues with so many solids strapped in tight. I'd been using this...

Since they're throttled back to 67-75% thrust using tweakables, overheating has never been an issue for me. Adding a couple more parts, control fins etc would also help with that, I think.

[NecroBones]

Since they're throttled back to 67-75% thrust using tweakables, overheating has never been an issue for me. Adding a couple more parts, control fins etc would also help with that, I think.

Plus they're on modular girders, so they're spaced out. This works fine even at 100% thrust.

[Sleepy_Steve]

How heavy of a payload can that handle? I've been doing onion staging with the medium SRB's and a T800 tank on top of them feeding into the center stack lately but it's not saving me that much. I think the concept needs more development in the sandbox.