contract $: revertable "simulation" mode and non-revertable "real" mode

[happyjack27]

an idea for making "reverting" less of a challenge-killer in contract mode. one could have two modes they can launch rockets in:

1.) pure simulation. maybe costs a small non-refundable (even after revert) amount, maybe nothing. in any case this always can be - always WILL be - reverted (even after a crash), but you will NOT get awarded funds (or lose funds) for success / failure. and of course, no kerbals are ever lost.

2.) real mode - precisely the opposite - time is strictly forward-only. no reverts at all. funds are strictly non-refundable. dead kerbals are gone for good.

this gives you the best of both worlds, in a realistic way.

[regex]

Hit Alt-F12 in-game, then enable the difficulty settings you desire. Should do the trick, unless you want some sort of badge on your savegame to make you feel better about yourself.

E: unless this is some sort of in-game mode where you "launch sim" or "launch fo reelz", in which case revert already does what you want, you just need to exercise some self-discipline.

Edited August 11, 2014 by regex

[Wanderfound]

Hit Alt-F12 in-game, then enable the difficulty settings you desire. Should do the trick, unless you want some sort of badge on your savegame to make you feel better about yourself.

E: unless this is some sort of in-game mode where you "launch sim" or "launch fo reelz", in which case revert already does what you want, you just need to exercise some self-discipline.

Generally agreed, but there's space for a middle ground as well. Some of the difficulty mods already use it: revert stays enabled, but there's a financial penalty if you use it. Think of it as the expense of running simulation testing.

[happyjack27]

E: unless this is some sort of in-game mode where you "launch sim" or "launch fo reelz", in which case revert already does what you want, you just need to exercise some self-discipline.

That's what i'm suggesting - "launch to sim" or "launch to world". and no, what i'm asking for is not currently implemented in the game.

Edited August 11, 2014 by happyjack27

[r4pt0r]

Generally agreed, but there's space for a middle ground as well. Some of the difficulty mods already use it: revert stays enabled, but there's a financial penalty if you use it. Think of it as the expense of running simulation testing.

if its any more than 5 funds, then Jeb's scraping most off the top to fund his dv addiction. simulations should be nigh free.

That said, I have not reverted since .24 launched. I came close to financial ruin after the Mungull 2 decided to become multiple independent craft mid-launch, but I've came out alright so far.

[BudgetHedgehog]

you just need to exercise some self-discipline.

Pretty much this. I haven't disabled revert or quicksave/load simply because KSP has a fair amount of bugs. If a bug eats my ship or I come out of timewarp and the planet doesn't load and I explode, hell yeah I'm quickloading - it's a planet, it shouldn't not load, my ship should not have exploded. The only reason it's lost is because Unity is a fickle little custard.

If I'm coming in from LKO in my expensive spaceplane and I make a mistake or get cocky and it breaks up, I swallow my pride and recover what I can (due to recent protests outside KSC, it's now mandatory for the command pod/cockpit to be able to decouple and safely land on chutes). That's all there is to it - you just need the self-control to not revert after any mishap. If I get to LKO and realise my probe doesn't have solar panels, I'm not going to revert, I'm going to send up a rescue mission and attach some panels to it with KAS.

Seeing as recovering on the runway/launchpad gives 100% refund, it's functionally no different than reverting when doing a test. That's the big problem with your idea - if it costs to do a test, then launch a 'real life' mission and make sure you recover it on the runway/launchpad. Depending on the test (no staging or consumption of depletable resources), no money is lost and the 'simulation'/test is complete. Sometimes, my tests are as simple as 'is this probe core facing the right way?' In those cases, I'm not even going to go anywhere, just load it up, look at the navball and revert. Much quicker than loading up, looking at the navball, recovering, waiting for the mission overview screen, hoping KSP doesn't crash, clicking the SPH, waiting for it to load, hoping it doesn't crash and then loading up my craft again. After all that, it's no different than reverting.

[Sirrobert]

There are 2 kinds of people in this game.

Those that do revert(1), and those that don't(2)

This suggestion will have the following effects on people:

1)These people will first launch an new design in 'simulation'. If something goes wrong, they will revert as they normally would. If all goes right, they will suddenly be forced to launch again, which is repetative and boring.

2)No effect on these people, since they don't revert anyway.

Currently, if you use revert, every ship you launch is effectivley launched in 'simulation'. If everything works, you go on to the real thing, but since you'll do evertying exactly the same anyway, that step is only boring, so we skip that (the computer follows the same inputs you gave it during the simulation), and start giving inputs for the real flight when it's in orbit

So basicly, all this suggestion does, is add a step for the group that does revert.

[happyjack27]

those of you who seem to think that what i'm suggesting is illusory, consider this: currently there are certain events that will prevent you from being able to fully revert.

[Kasuha]

I support the suggestion. Yes, I understand it can be 'emulated' using current game options and self-discipline but it gets uncomfortable to remember whether the flight I launched an hour ago is a simulation or real deal. Besides, simulations could come with some extra features such as deploying the ship landed on or orbiting a selected body instead of just using launchpad.

[happyjack27]

it actually can't be emulated using current game options. that was my point above. because some events will make it so you can't revert, thus "launch to sim" can't be emulated.

not that it matters. it's still emulation vs the real thing.

Edited August 12, 2014 by happyjack27

[arkie87]

That's what i'm suggesting - "launch to sim" or "launch to world". and no, what i'm asking for is not currently implemented in the game.

Why not a "Test" button (a picture of a spaceship, but in yellow, next to the green launch button)? Like mentioned above, it costs nothing, but you earn nothing as well.

[arkie87]

I support the suggestion. Yes, I understand it can be 'emulated' using current game options and self-discipline but it gets uncomfortable to remember whether the flight I launched an hour ago is a simulation or real deal. Besides, simulations could come with some extra features such as deploying the ship landed on or orbiting a selected body instead of just using launchpad.

Yes! Exactly! If they use my idea (yellow spaceship button next to launch which reads "Test"), then once pressing the "test" button, you can select where to place your space craft, so if you want to see whether your lander has enough torque to flip itself up on Duna, in case it lands and falls over, you can test it! (that seems to happen to me too often).

[arkie87]

So basicly, all this suggestion does, is add a step for the group that does revert.

Not entirely. A yellow "test" button next to the launch button in SPH and VAB will give players the option of where they want to place their craft for testing (for instance, on Duna, so they dont have to waste time getting there, and can see whether or not their craft has enough torque to flip itself back up on its legs if it were to fall over upon landing, for instance). This feature would be useful for both types of players.

[severedsolo]

I agree this would be great, but check out Kerbal Construction time in the meantime, it has a simulation mode that works even if you disable reverting (and you have to pay for it): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69310-WIP-0-24-2-Kerbal-Construction-Time-PreRelease-7-2-2-%288-16-14%29

[thereaverofdarkness]

Hit Alt-F12 in-game, then enable the difficulty settings you desire. Should do the trick, unless you want some sort of badge on your savegame to make you feel better about yourself.

Don't we all?

I am in support of the OP. I think the game should not allow save scumming outside of the simulation, at least once they have the Kraken bugs fixed. But it would be neat either way to have a simulation computer that you can fly your rocket in so that you can crash it and have a game-justified reason for not suffering any consequences.

[Sirrobert]

Don't we all?

I am in support of the OP. I think the game should not allow save scumming outside of the simulation, at least once they have the Kraken bugs fixed. But it would be neat either way to have a simulation computer that you can fly your rocket in so that you can crash it and have a game-justified reason for not suffering any consequences.

And what reason do you have to think that other people should not be allowed to save scum?

What right do you have to dicate how 'hardcore' other people play?