M.D vs physican

[Pawelk198604]

I probably never become doctor but medicine very interested my.

I in my country Poland these who want study medicine after 6 year study, normally study for magister/master degree last for five years, "doctors" after graduation in Poland get title "lekarz medyccyny(physician of medicine) lekarz dentysta (physician of dentistry) or lekarz weterynarz (physician of veterinary(medicine) for vets as is master degree after normal study, to be fully flagged "doctor" they must finish PhD studies. I wonder how it's look in USA/Britain.

[Tex]

I don't follow the US medical practices very closely, but as far as I'm aware, a physician is just a general title for someone who practices medicine. You can achieve the title "doctor" through being an M.D. or by completing PhD studies. That's all I know!

[MartGonzo]

I can tell you that the British medical association has quietly dropped the Hippocratic oath, it's no longer compulsory and those who do want to take an oath have had a new one written up that stresses doing as your told by those in authority.

no mention of doing no harm and no mention of patient care

draw your own conclusions as to why

[Pawelk198604]

I can tell you that the British medical association has quietly dropped the Hippocratic oath, it's no longer compulsory and those who do want to take an oath have had a new one written up that stresses doing as your told by those in authority.

no mention of doing no harm and no mention of patient care

draw your own conclusions as to why

WTF?! I think it's compulsory anywhere in the world, i hope they at least make list those "doctors" who chosen not to take Hippocratic oath.

[Redjoker]

A physician is someone who holds a medical degree of some kind: MD, DDS, DVM,... A MD is someone who has a doctorate in human medicine. It's like a square is always a rectangle , but a rectangle is not always a square. A MD is a physician, but not all physicians are MD's.

[Wanderfound]

Historically speaking, "Doctor" is the Western equivalent of "Sensei" or "Sifu": it means "teacher". A (real, non-physician, PhD) doctor is someone that's had enough training at an academic discipline that they're qualified not just to do that thing (Master) but also to teach it to others (Doctor).

Around the time of the Renaissance, there was competition between a few different factions in England and western Europe about who were the "real" healers. Physicians studied the theory of medicine, whereas the College of Barber-Surgeons (the "barber" thing was because in Medieval times, the local barber was the one guy who could be relied on to have a good sharp razor) had a more practical and empirical approach. Apothecaries were kind of in between the physicians and the surgeons. Village herbalists and midwives actually did the bulk of the hands-on care for most of the population, but they were generally ignored by the authorities on account of being mostly female peasants.

Physicians went to University where they read (wildly inaccurate and lethally misguided) ancient Greek and Roman books about medicine, whereas Barber-Surgeons were trained by a hands-on apprenticeship. In an attempt to emphasise their academic credentials, the physicians started calling themselves "doctors", even though most of them were only Masters by normal university standards. It's a courtesy title; most PhDs will tell you that physicians aren't really doctors.

This history is also why Anglosphere surgeons are called "mister" instead of "doctor".

--

Dr Wanderfound, PhD.

[Wanderfound]

WTF?! I think it's compulsory anywhere in the world, i hope they at least make list those "doctors" who chosen not to take Hippocratic oath.

I wouldn't value the Hippocratic Oath that highly, if I were you. If you look at the original text [1] you'll find that a major focus of it was on protecting the income of physicians rather than protecting the welfare of patients.

Most of the ethical stuff is in there because it was common for physicians of the time to do the things that it forbids [2], and Hippocrates was attempting to promote his own students by claiming that they were less dodgy than all of the others. Its primary purpose was advertising.

[1] This section in particular: "To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art; and that by my teaching, I will impart a knowledge of this art to my own sons, and to my teacher's sons, and to disciples bound by an indenture and oath according to the medical laws, and no others."

[2] Included in the forbidden practices are using surgery to remove gallstones and performing abortions. There are valid reasons for modern medical schools to ditch it.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Pawelk198604]

I wouldn't value the Hippocratic Oath that highly, if I were you. If you look at the original text [1] you'll find that a major focus of it was on protecting the income of physicians rather than protecting the welfare of patients.

Most of the ethical stuff is in there because it was common for physicians of the time to do the things that it forbids [2], and Hippocrates was attempting to promote his own students by claiming that they were less dodgy than all of the others. Its primary purpose was advertising.

[1] This section in particular: "To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art; and that by my teaching, I will impart a knowledge of this art to my own sons, and to my teacher's sons, and to disciples bound by an indenture and oath according to the medical laws, and no others."

[2] Included in the forbidden practices are using surgery to remove gallstones and performing abortions. There are valid reasons for modern medical schools to ditch it.

Because modern doctors like "abort" unborn children for money:D

[pxi]

Because modern doctors like "abort" unborn children for money:D

Some but not all doctors, let's be fair. However, I imagine that yes, they prefer money to being paid in livestock or whatever their predecessors were paid in.

[Red Iron Crown]

"Doctor" has become an almost meaningless term. Where once it generally restricted to medical doctors, it now includes those who have completed Ph.D studies or less (chiropractors here are referred to as doctors, though they've only done the equivalent of a master's degree).

Worse still are those who exploit having a doctorate in one field to allow people to assume they are the sort of doctor appropriate for the field they're working in (e.g. Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a somewhat famous radio family/marriage therapist whose doctorate is in physiology, she didn't get any certification in therapy until after starting her call-in advice show).

[cpast]

"Doctor" has become an almost meaningless term. Where once it generally restricted to medical doctors, it now includes those who have completed Ph.D studies or less (chiropractors here are referred to as doctors, though they've only done the equivalent of a master's degree).

Was "Doctor" ever restricted to physicians in professional contexts? A Ph.D is just as much a doctorate as an MD; while social settings are one thing, I'm skeptical of a claim that holders of Ph.Ds ever didn't use the title in professional contexts (especially if "Professor" is not accurate, like if they aren't professors).

[Red Iron Crown]

Was "Doctor" ever restricted to physicians in professional contexts? A Ph.D is just as much a doctorate as an MD; while social settings are one thing, I'm skeptical of a claim that holders of Ph.Ds ever didn't use the title in professional contexts (especially if "Professor" is not accurate, like if they aren't professors).

Maybe not in professional contexts, but in common usage "doctor" meant "medical doctor" in almost every case up until the last few decades.

[Wanderfound]

"Doctor" has become an almost meaningless term. Where once it generally restricted to medical doctors, it now includes those who have completed Ph.D studies or less (chiropractors here are referred to as doctors, though they've only done the equivalent of a master's degree).

You've got the history exactly backwards. See above.