0.25 Discussion thread

[NecroBones]

Maxmaps, just now on twitter:

"Refining our texture loading methods to make 0.25 load faster. Also opening loading methods up for modding so peeps can give it a shot."

That's awesome. It's pretty CPU-intensive, whatever they're doing. I know they do some level of data compression on the textures, since you can actually see some of the compression artifacts in-game if you have a texture with subtle enough color transitions. But I don't know how much of the load time is accounted for with that.

[KerbMav]

Is it only me? Or are the bits of information coming in much more steadily these days?

[Alshain]

That's awesome. It's pretty CPU-intensive, whatever they're doing. I know they do some level of data compression on the textures, since you can actually see some of the compression artifacts in-game if you have a texture with subtle enough color transitions. But I don't know how much of the load time is accounted for with that.

You can say that again. 2 years ago I built my machine based on a 2500K with the idea that would overclock when it became necessary. KSP made it necessary.

Is it only me? Or are the bits of information coming in much more steadily these days?

I'm fairly sure they are getting close to a release, except usually when you get close to a release you will stop all non-bug fix development, which apparently they aren't doing yet. Anyway, my prediction still stands for a release next week. Only time will tell if I am right.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Alshain

[troyfawkes]

I'm fairly sure they are getting close to a release, except usually when you get close to a release you will stop all non-bug fix development, which apparently they aren't doing yet.

I read today's dev notes the same way, where "revised X GUI element" or w/e applied to .25, but then again they weren't clear on that. I think they work on the next version as well, so maybe the new stuff is in that and experimentals has a hold on the previously unmentioned features in dev notes?

Regardless they said they'd announce the secret feature on Friday, so my hypebrain is assuming they're not going to release until earliest Monday (because who wants to hotfix over the weekend? )

[Aragosnat]

Well. I think they have done a hot fix over the weekend. But, yeah. They should not be doing one as they should take a brake once in a while.

[Spartwo]

Everyone should know that during launch days, Kerbals not only evacuate the Launchpad, but literally every building in KSC.

Why would they do that if the buildings were invincible.... I'm going with the people saying destructible buildings. It was in the planned list and the hints point that way.

[NecroBones]

Why would they do that if the buildings were invincible.... I'm going with the people saying destructible buildings. It was in the planned list and the hints point that way.

Yep, my best guess is still that it's somewhere between destructible, or scorching structures, or just setting them on fire.

That or the "crazy cat lady" shack next to the runway. That has to be it.

[NecroBones]

Yep, my best guess is still that it's somewhere between destructible, or scorching structures, or just setting them on fire.

That or the "crazy cat lady" shack next to the runway. That has to be it.

.. Or the other feature idea, of emergency ground crews, or Kerbals running out of the buildings to gawk at your crashes.

[Whirligig Girl]

Hoards of kerbals running into the bunker (the second new building near the runway) before a launch. If you get to the crowd before they get in the bunker, you can blow them up!

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Hey, could someone make a backup of the former Mk1 Plane parts? I would like to keep them for future reference.

.. Or the other feature idea, of emergency ground crews, or Kerbals running out of the buildings to gawk at your crashes.

Might fry a weaker computer's software, though. I know that my computer lags a lot at the VAB and SPH with the Ground Crew setting on.

[Sky_walker]

Is it only me? Or are the bits of information coming in much more steadily these days?

Yea.

They improved after the storm before 0.24. Guys told us that they'll get better - and in did they got better

[Ketsa]

The secret feature is a tutorial.

[Franklin]

The secret feature is a tutorial.

I'd laugh like an a-hole if it turned out to be.

[Franklin]

"But, what was the new building then?!"

"It's a flight school building. You can access the tutorials from there as often as you'd like. You can do them over and over!"

[TheGamingNoobster]

We have the answer! Looks like it was destructible buildings all along! Oh Danny...

[Red Iron Crown]

So, destructible buildings.

Count me in the underwhelmed camp (though I missed regex's big thread ). For me at least, it's something I will play around with a few times to see the effects and then go back to running a space program. I don't think I'm all that great a player but my stuff rarely blows up or goes out of control anymore, certainly not in such a way that it would hit a KSC building. So I guess I'm one of the players MaxMaps was referring to that would rarely see this feature.

It's a bit surprising that the launchpad and especially the runway are destructible, those sort of structures are build specifically to withstand incredible punishment. I hope that the damage resistance values for those structures are set appropriately.

As for it being a side effect of the big art project for 0.26, I'm guessing that we're getting a lot more buildings around Kerbin which is nice from an aesthetic perspective I guess (though if we get more launch sites that would be fantastic). I suppose it has implications for multiplayer, many of the players most interested in multiplayer seem to want to blow up each other's stuff and I guess destructible buildings would be a part of that. I'm not really into deliberately blowing things up, either mine or others', so that's not really a hit for me.

The thing that does concern me is that Kerbal Space Program seems to be turning into Kerbin Space Program. All the focus seems is on improving things in and around the Kerbin system while the rest of the solar system is left stagnant. Maybe the data indicates that most players don't leave the Kerbin system so that would be the place to spend development resources, but that is backwards in my mind. It would be better to improve the other planets and add tools to make transfers to them more accessible to encourage players to get out and explore them rather than puttering around Kerbin, to my mind.

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to the other features coming in 0.25 that are more relevant to my playstyle, so I'm not trying to rain on the 0.25 hype parade or anything. Just my couple of pennies about the secret feature.

[Parkaboy]

I'm not underwhelmed, mainly because I didn't set my expectations too high. MaxMaps did warn us that the secred feature wouldn't be a game changer, so I wasn't expecting much. It was fun trying to guess it, and it was somewhat disappointing that, in the end, one of the first guesses was actually right.

I'm more curious about what it means for .26. What larger feature might be coming. I can think of a few possibilities:

- Cities around Kerbin, also destructible (and with a huge rep penalty for destroying them)

- An upgrade system for the KSC buildings, where you start Career mode with smaller and less powerful buildings and research and buy your way up

- The ability to build static bases (buildings, not rocket parts) on other planets

[NecroBones]

I'm a bit ambivalent toward the destructible buildings. On one hand, I say "Cool!" and I like the fact that running your space agency, will also involve maintenance and repair issues. I'm also excited to think that this could mean, down the line, the possibility of building or expanding the space center as part of the gameplay, or building additional launch sites.

On the other hand, I fear its impact on my gameplay could also be like the asteroids in .23.5. That is, it's cool and I'll play around with it for a bit, but then not touch it again for a long time. I messed around with asteroids for a week or two, and then never went back. I'm glad it's a feature of the game, but it's not something that will keep me occupied in and of itself.

But in the end, I suspect KSP's direction is to give you as much freedom and as many options as possible, and add some real consequences for your actions as well. That's a good thing, overall.

So... my feeling is: We'll see how it goes.

[Hannu]

I am very disappointed. Next step will probably be to remove 1/r^2-gravity and replace interplanetary transports to arcade cave flying mechanics including asteroid fields, black holes etc. fancy stuff, maybe even weapons and enemies, and of course very spectacular visual effects. Unfortunately KSP is now developed to direction less interesting to me, although I understand that childish building crashing with pretentious explosion effects will sell much more than nerdy celestial mechanics. On the other hand, I wonder what new KSP or any other game can add to that genre which million old games do not have. Small company can never compete against large mass products with budgets of millions of dollars in visual and artistic things.

Of course, it was self evident from start, that when this kind of game will be more popular it changes more to easy mass entertainment. And I have to say, that this game has given me more fun and interest than any other game ever. But if you get much you always want even more and eventually will disappoint.

[Vectura]

-snip-

So you are saying that one fun little feature destroys the entire game and makes it a big 'easy for the masses' non-unique game, despite that they added a lot of unique stuff and didn't remove any of the orbital mechanics?

[styckx]

I am very disappointed. Next step will probably be to remove 1/r^2-gravity and replace interplanetary transports to arcade cave flying mechanics including asteroid fields, black holes etc. fancy stuff, maybe even weapons and enemies, and of course very spectacular visual effects. Unfortunately KSP is now developed to direction less interesting to me, although I understand that childish building crashing with pretentious explosion effects will sell much more than nerdy celestial mechanics. On the other hand, I wonder what new KSP or any other game can add to that genre which million old games do not have. Small company can never compete against large mass products with budgets of millions of dollars in visual and artistic things.

Of course, it was self evident from start, that when this kind of game will be more popular it changes more to easy mass entertainment. And I have to say, that this game has given me more fun and interest than any other game ever. But if you get much you always want even more and eventually will disappoint.

You're overreacting and over-thinking this. By a lot..

[Beale]

I think the destructible buildings hopefully has some potential of a stock implementation of Kerbtown/Kerbal Konstructs, for modders that is very cool

Also maybe the ability to bulldoze KSC and move elsewhere... (Here's hoping!)

The administration building is very out of place to me, though.

Compare it to bac9's fantastic work on the other buildings, it looks a lot less detailed, very "flat" compared to all the other buildings that are covered in "beveled" sections like pillars, etc.

It wouldn't be a problem if it was a different style (plain brick?), but as it is using bac9's textures, you'd expect it to have the same level of detail or architecture style.

Not saying here that I could do better, or that it isn't good. Just that there's a very high standard set by existing buildings, a standard that would be good to keep up.

The pool also, looks like just stock Unity water close up, pretty ugly.

Even transparent solid blue for the water would look better in my opinion.

Couple the fact that there's nothing around the pool (a fence, chairs, ladders, paved floor) it just looks like a really strange pond.

I hate to whine, but this is just my feedback Thank you Squad

Oh, and GP2...

Edited September 27, 2014 by Beale

[Red Iron Crown]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned since the Squadcast is the better look we got at the new structure between the runway and SPH. It looks to be three horizontal fuel tanks and a water tower-like structure. I wonder if this serves any in-game function or if it was just added as something likely to be crashed into during landings, revealing the destructible buildings.

[Hannu]

So you are saying that one fun little feature destroys the entire game and makes it a big 'easy for the masses' non-unique game, despite that they added a lot of unique stuff and didn't remove any of the orbital mechanics?

No, it does not destroy the game if it is one sidestep. Then it just delays developing. But I am sure that building crash models and animation have taken hundreds if not thousands of workhours and it is very little thing in game. Bang for the buck is ridiculously low. And they say that it is base work for something bigger, so it seems that they have no intention to develop interesting parts of game in the near future. I fear now really, that their "large artistic project" will be some stupid KSC bling bling instead of desperately needed complete overhaul of planets. I can not imagine any interesting feature in space traveling game which needs building crashes. Game have already collision detection and to all gameplay purposes some kind of information "Object A hit building B. Damage: 45 % Rebuild cost: 50000 money." is enough. It would have been work of one day.

I could understand it better, if it was last polish to almost ready game, but now there is huge amount of much more important basic work to do. Most planets have very simple graphics and topography. Aerodynamic model is awful. Orbital predictions are inaccurate. And there are tens of minor issues in alpha phase, which are in same category as realistic building damage.

[GusTurbo]

I am very disappointed. Next step will probably be to remove 1/r^2-gravity and replace interplanetary transports to arcade cave flying mechanics including asteroid fields, black holes etc. fancy stuff, maybe even weapons and enemies, and of course very spectacular visual effects. Unfortunately KSP is now developed to direction less interesting to me, although I understand that childish building crashing with pretentious explosion effects will sell much more than nerdy celestial mechanics. On the other hand, I wonder what new KSP or any other game can add to that genre which million old games do not have. Small company can never compete against large mass products with budgets of millions of dollars in visual and artistic things.

Of course, it was self evident from start, that when this kind of game will be more popular it changes more to easy mass entertainment. And I have to say, that this game has given me more fun and interest than any other game ever. But if you get much you always want even more and eventually will disappoint.

This is ridiculous. You're acting like they've removed some realistic element to appeal to a new audience. Are buildings indestructible in real life?