Kerbodyne SSTO Division: Omnibus Thread

[Wanderfound]

Incidentally, the Goblin makes the Velociraptor ​seem like a slug. That thing is insane.

[Wanderfound]

Can't be bothered spending twenty minutes guiding your Kerbals to their seats in economy class? Do your passengers object to riding in an unsealed cabin for some reason? Then you want a Kerbodyne Migration Aerotrain.

Flight details essentially identical to the original Migration (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1370535&viewfull=1#post1370535).

Download craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/bx2otm4w0gj8gij/Kerbodyne%20Migration%20Aerotrain.craft?dl=0

[Volcanix]

That's pretty awesome! I'm only wondering who needs that much crew capacity.

[Wanderfound]

That's pretty awesome! I'm only wondering who needs that much crew capacity.

I do. :-)

The Minmus ice races draw large crowds, and that's not even counting the construction crews needed to build the grandstands...

I figure it should also have some usefulness for the folks messing around with Duna colonies and such.

[Wanderfound]

Incidentally, it hits orbit with tanks half full, so you could easily swap some fuel capacity for another four passenger cabins out on the engine nacelles.

That'd bring it up to two crew and forty passengers, all in a practical and flyable package that won't melt your computer through Whackjob-style part counts but can fly in atmosphere at better than Mach 10. Munar VTOL capable, too.

Also available in bulk cargo configurations.

[Wanderfound]

Teaser: I've been working on my Minmus iceracer, and I think I've got a good one:

Nimble, solid, and very very quick. Should make a decent specialist downforce skater, but switch the Vernors off and you've also got a helluva sportsplane.

Me like.

[Wanderfound]

Still keen to see some more times on the assorted piloting challenges, BTW.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/1662-Active-Challenge-List

You don't need to post the best time, just your best time. Give me some bulk so that the leaderboards actually become a list.

I've been stuck in this room playing Kerbal for months (Wanderfound is not a healthy boy; I don't have the luxury of a lengthy wait for anything). I could use some external entertainment.

If you're worried about exposing yourself as not the world's best pilot, remember that even the worst time on the board beats anyone who didn't try at all. And even if you fail completely, you should get some entertainingly explosive screenshots out of it; see my assorted attempts at the Cratermaker challenge.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Volcanix]

Teaser: I've been working on my Minmus iceracer, and I think I've got a good one:

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Ice%20racing%20on%20Minmus/937ead0ba71746016ef4a69581866c72_zps42f635d3.jpg

Nimble, solid, and very very quick. Should make a decent specialist downforce skater, but switch the Vernors off and you've also got a helluva sportsplane.

Me like.

That looks pretty nice. When will you post your results?

[Wanderfound]

That looks pretty nice. When will you post your results?

Trying to get the audience (a couple of Migration's worth of spectators, plus four Porklifter's for a start/finish line) in place first. Repeated laptop crashes aren't making it any quicker.

[Wanderfound]

Has anyone else had a play with the Porklifter yet? Ever since I scrubbed and reinstalled my game, it's been unable to get off the ground without switching the RAPIERs to closed cycle.

It was never the quickest thing immediately off the pad, and you did have to let the engines spool up for ten seconds or so before releasing the launch clamps, but it did fly. I'm not sure if this means that something is wrong now, or that something was wrong before.

Using FAR, of course.

EDIT: after installing Hot Rockets (which I'd had pre-scrub, but hadn't reinstalled yet), it's back to launching easily. The kN values look the same either way, though.

Weird. Still not sure which is the "correct" version.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Would you like a fun little aerobatic sportsplane that also works as a practical science explorer? Are you suffering from a strange delusion that the Kerbodyne SSTO Division are unable to produce spaceplanes that aren't a rear-delta design?

Come have a spin in the new Kerbodyne de Minimus. We promise you won't be disappointed.

Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/47n0beaxbrxmoa6/Kerbodyne%20de%20Minimus.craft?dl=0

Requires Spaceplane Plus and FAR/NEAR. Optional paintjob provided by Kerbpaint.

[Wanderfound]

Combining hefty cargo capacity, lightning atmospheric speed and extreme interplanetary range, the Kerbodyne Brutus proves that just because it's big doesn't mean it has to be slow.

Takes off easily with a sensible payload, and with just a bit of effort can lift substantially less sane cargoes. As usual, check the action groups; keep the flaps on for takeoffs and landings, but pull them back to neutral in flight.

Kerbodyne accepts no liability for any environmental or ground crew worker's compensation claims arising from the use of the nuclear thermal rockets as heavy-lift takeoff boosters.

Requires SP+ and FAR/NEAR. Optional paintjob by Kerbpaint.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lous4o9ytuqojfr/Kerbodyne%20Brutus.craft?dl=0

Edited September 5, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

Just a quick reply to say "Thank you". I've had very limited success with making planes. I've gotten to the point where they're balanced and fly, but doing actual *work* is another matter. The thread is an inspiration (even though I'm chicken and don't use FAR/NEAR) and I'm going to look at a lot of these planes and use them as guidance.

[Wanderfound]

Just a quick reply to say "Thank you". I've had very limited success with making planes. I've gotten to the point where they're balanced and fly, but doing actual *work* is another matter. The thread is an inspiration (even though I'm chicken and don't use FAR/NEAR) and I'm going to look at a lot of these planes and use them as guidance.

Aww, thanks.

Everything here is designed and tested with FAR in operation, so may not work at all in stock aero (especially the bigger stuff). The drag models are radically different (stock atmosphere is absurdly dense and applies drag to all parts regardless of orientation or shielding; FAR/NEAR treats things much more sensibly) and even the SPH markers shift between the different systems. See the images from myself and Kasuha in the thread at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91511-Spaceplane-Speed-Challenge-2-Fastest-time-from-orbit-to-runway for a clear demonstration of what I'm talking about.

FAR (and even more so NEAR) is nowhere near as scary as it's made out to be. Yes, it's not as easy as stock, but it's still very forgiving by flight-sim standards. I'm physically impaired at the moment to a degree that has me struggling to hold a pen and write, but I can still fly. You can't get away with casually doing the sort of aerial handbrake turns that stock permits, but if you fly sensibly you're fine.

Each to their own, and whatever's fun for you is all cool, but as always I'd strongly recommend that you at least give FAR/NEAR a try. Stock is easier, but it gets very tiresome; it takes forever to slog to orbit in stock, whereas in FAR I can get to space in just a few minutes.

As a non-threatening middle ground, you might get some benefit from taking the Benchmark for a spin in stock. Its tuned-for-FAR aero balance is not what you'd do if you were intentionally making a stock aero plane (again, see the discussion between myself and Kasuha in the challenge post), but stock air is so grippy that it doesn't matter much. If you can fly the Benchmark in stock without constantly spinning it, you should be able to adapt to FAR/NEAR without much trouble.

If you want to, that is. However you have your Kerbal fun is fine by me; there is no one true way. But I do think that aircraft are a lot more fun when you get them out of the stock soupmosphere.

See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1360129&viewfull=1#post1360129 for some basic starting design tips.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

If you can fly the Benchmark in stock without constantly spinning it, you should be able to adapt to FAR/NEAR without much trouble.

I'll give that a try, and maybe move up to NEAR if it works out well.

Guess that means I'd have to put nosecones on my rockets too. Oh the bother.

Edit: I flew the Benchmark, no problems. I'll be honest I use MechJeb to handle certain things I either can do routinely, or am not very good at (i.e. landing). In this case I find it handy to keep me on heading and pitch but I did both MJ and manual. Heck I even managed to put the thing back on the runway, which is a rarity for me. Guess it's time to load up FAR.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Wingblaze

[Wanderfound]

I'll give that a try, and maybe move up to NEAR if it works out well.

Guess that means I'd have to put nosecones on my rockets too. Oh the bother.

Edit: I flew the Benchmark, no problems. I'll be honest I use MechJeb to handle certain things I either can do routinely, or am not very good at (i.e. landing). In this case I find it handy to keep me on heading and pitch but I did both MJ and manual. Heck I even managed to put the thing back on the runway, which is a rarity for me. Guess it's time to load up FAR.

One of us, one of us...

You'll find your planes a lot quicker and slicker with FAR in effect. Don't be surprised if you rip the wings off a few times while you're getting used to it, though.

I tend to use Mechjeb as a cruise control; if I'm coming in for a shallow gliding reentry from halfway around Kerbin, I'll switch it to surface mode, set the heading to 90° and control my descent by tweaking the pitch setting a few degrees above and below horizontal. This doesn't feel "cheaty" at all to me; the last time anybody in the real world flew a large plane without that sort of autopilot installed was a hundred years ago.

BTW, other very good utility mods for spaceplane pilots:

Kerbal Flight Data

Kerbal Flight Indicators

Extended Trim

RCS Build Aid

And, if your computer can handle it, grab one of the E.V.E. packs. Zooming down through the clouds only to find yourself face-to-face with a mountain is way fun.

[Wingblaze]

One of us, one of us...

You may have spoken too soon.

Various trial and error results:

1. My skills seem short of handling FAR. Part of it is an input problem - with only the binary keyboard inputs to control surfaces, it's easy to go out of control. Let's face it - you don't slam the stick around in a plane. (And I turned off aerodynamic failures because yeah, just too much for me right now.)

2. The Longstrider Does Not Go To Space in stock. It barely gets off the runway. I suspect the low amount of wing surface. (This isn't a criticism - not what it was built for. Just a data point.) Of course it could be pilot error.

3. The Epinephrine on the other hand *does* fly pretty well in stock. I have some trouble at the 20k altitude area trying to flatten out, speed up, and then climb, but I think that's mostly a pilot issue. Heck I stuck the landing on a second try. Like that plane. Interesting fuel delivery issue though - the front tank doesn't seem to feed the engines. I'm not sure if that's a mod issue with the fuel balancer mod (not installed) or not.

4. Mechjeb as cruise control is exactly what I do (see #1) but Mechjeb and FAR don't seem to get along great. Or maybe it's me. Still working on it.

I'm still trying to figure out if the FAR curve is something I can climb given my level of interest but your encouragement is shifting the balance around

[Wanderfound]

You may have spoken too soon.

Various trial and error results:

1. My skills seem short of handling FAR. Part of it is an input problem - with only the binary keyboard inputs to control surfaces, it's easy to go out of control. Let's face it - you don't slam the stick around in a plane. (And I turned off aerodynamic failures because yeah, just too much for me right now.)

2. The Longstrider Does Not Go To Space in stock. It barely gets off the runway. I suspect the low amount of wing surface. (This isn't a criticism - not what it was built for. Just a data point.) Of course it could be pilot error.

3. The Epinephrine on the other hand *does* fly pretty well in stock. I have some trouble at the 20k altitude area trying to flatten out, speed up, and then climb, but I think that's mostly a pilot issue. Heck I stuck the landing on a second try. Like that plane. Interesting fuel delivery issue though - the front tank doesn't seem to feed the engines. I'm not sure if that's a mod issue with the fuel balancer mod (not installed) or not.

4. Mechjeb as cruise control is exactly what I do (see #1) but Mechjeb and FAR don't seem to get along great. Or maybe it's me. Still working on it.

I'm still trying to figure out if the FAR curve is something I can climb given my level of interest but your encouragement is shifting the balance around

If you're flying FAR/NEAR with keyboard, don't hold the buttons down: tap tap tap. Using the shift lock to engage precision control may be useful as well, although that does introduce a bit of variability into the control inputs. I don't use a joystick (can't, at the moment; med-induced fine motor control problems).

You need to lead the plane, not try to force it; particularly with high-performance craft, treat them like a racehorse. Wait for the prograde marker to catch up with you before you increase the angle of attack too much. If they're designed decently, they shouldn't be bad-tempered, but they may be a bit "proud". Treat 'em with respect and they'll do the same for you.

FAR also allows you to adjust the maximum deflection of control surfaces, and most of my planes have them wound up to fairly extreme levels: I like responsive planes, but the price of that is if you tell the plane to kill you, it will happily oblige. Cranking them back down to default may be helpful. As you may notice, most of my stuff is designed with high-performance in mind. This is fun once you've got the knack, but a Ferrari isn't the best car for a learner driver.

If you have a poke at the Better SSTO Design Challenge thread (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86202-Better-SSTO-Spaceplane-Challenge-(0-23-5-0-24)-Extended), you'll find some easy-to-fly things. DaMichel's Laythe Wing in particular is exceptionally stable.

There's an optional FAR plugin for Mechjeb (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60933-Optional-MechJeb-Modules) that helps them to get along better, but even with that Mechjeb is a bit wobbly for planes under power at the moment. It hasn't yet been updated to account for the roll-gimballing ability introduced in .24, so it tends to give planes an oscillating roll when the engines are on. Sarbian is working on a patch as we speak.

With the Epinephrine, the frontmost tank is locked off as an emergency reserve (I use a similar trick on probe core batteries). As well as avoiding out-of-fuel whoopsies, it also prevents the front tank from upsetting the weight balance by draining prematurely. You can also prevent this by careful fuel hose arrangement, but I didn't want to clutter up the Epinephrine's aesthetics with too many fuel lines. Right-clicking the tank will allow you to unlock the fuel flow.

I'm not surprised that Longreach doesn't work in stock. Soupmosphere drag is particularly punishing on high mass / high wing loading craft.

PS: if you want to see what they can really do, have a look at the challenge posts linked below.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Got a lot of stuff?

Need to send that stuff a long way away?

Meet the Kerbodyne Albatross. Fully-featured, long-ranged, and able to lift a ridiculous load of snacks.

As always, check the action groups; this one has plenty of tricks.

Easy takeoffs:

High efficiency Aerospike propulsion:

Generous cargo bay:

Craft file available from https://www.dropbox.com/s/wo2r7t7duwfmexq/Kerbodyne%20Albatross.craft?dl=0

Requires Spaceplane Plus and FAR/NEAR. Optional paintjob courtesy of Kerbpaint.

[Red Iron Crown]

Now replacing "nose-mounted advanced canards" with "blood red paint job" as my criterion for "designed by Wanderfound".

[Wanderfound]

Now replacing "nose-mounted advanced canards" with "blood red paint job" as my criterion for "designed by Wanderfound".

I've been trying to vary the colour schemes, but most of the other Kerbpaint defaults are a bit on the garish side.

Besides, everyone knows that red wuns go fasta.

[Wanderfound]

Here you go...

[Red Iron Crown]

[AustinPowers] Yeah, baby, my jumbo jet! [/AustinPowers]

[Wanderfound]

Feel like expanding your seismic research program? Tired of having to invent elaborate rover deployment systems? Don't have the patience to wait for the symmetrical cargo bays promised for the .25 update?

Say hello to our little friend...

The Kerbodyne Pacifist.

Absolutely not a bomber.

Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/7k8lgiu28j6xmmb/Kerbodyne%20Pacifist.craft?dl=0

Requires Spaceplane Plus. Intended for FAR/NEAR. Lining up seismic research probe deployment runs considerably easier if you disable aerodynamic failures. Optional paintjob by Kerbpaint, demonstration seismic shock probes by NRAP.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Would you like to learn to fly in atmosphere that isn't made by the Campbell's Soup Company? Does your career mode game require an aircraft as early as possible in the tech tree?

Did you try taking a Dementia for a spin, only to discover that it's quite easy to rip your wings off when you have more than five G's of thrust on tap? Did you perhaps fail to realise that a Bugatti Veyron isn't necessarily the best choice of car for a learner driver?

Are you frightened of Ferram?

Well, we've got the plane for you.

Introducing the Kerbodyne Evangelist. A sturdy, lightweight, easy to fly aerobatic trainer that uses no mod pack parts, and nothing higher than tier 5 in the tech tree. If you can't get the hang of this one...well, okay, maybe you're better off with rockets. But give it a try before you abandon all hope.

Simple, classic design.

Takes off all by itself; absolutely zero control inputs required.

Extremely nimble and forgiving even at low airspeeds.

Tolerates extreme G-stresses (positive and negative) and large angles of attack.

Note: "easy to fly" does not mean "impossible to crash". "Sturdy" does not mean "unbreakable". It's a trainer, not a LOLplane.

Although it's definitely capable of inducing LOLing once you learn how to fly it; she's a sweet little beast that is perfect for adventurous aerobatics. First time up with this, I managed to successfully survive dipping the landing gear in the ocean pulling out of a 10G dive and bouncing off the runway while flying sideways.

The Evangelist is immensely forgiving, but it still has limits; this is deliberate. Anything you do that breaks this plane will also break any other realistically constructed aircraft. If I built something completely indestructible, all that would achieve is to teach y'all more bad flying habits. The idea is to let you have fun while you discover what you can and can't get away with.

Craft file available at https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7arl456ss9wvbw/Kerbodyne%20Evangelist.craft?dl=0

Optional paint job by Kerbpaint. Requires no mods whatsoever. Designed to fly in FAR/NEAR, but will probably work nicely in stock aero as well.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Wanderfound