List of No-Brainer Mods that should become stock

[arkie87]

I wanted to compile a short list of mods that i think should become stock in the game, and wanted to get the community's input.

EDIT: I try to add only things which the dev's (to my knowledge) arent currently working on or planning to work on (such as improved aerodynamics, as in FAR). I also try to include simple tweaks/fixes to make the game more symmetric, intuitive and easier to play, rather than drastically changing the gameplay, or changing inconsequential aspects of the game that a simple MOD could implement.

Without further ado, here is my list so far:

(1) Just like X cuts engine power, Z should floor it (like the FloorIt mod)

(2) When in "surface" mode on the NAVball, the altimeter should display altitude above surface, not above sea level (i think this makes intuitive sense). There is no mod i am aware of that currently does this.

(3) Even without part-pack mods, there are too many redundant items to choose from in the VAB/SPH, and requires scrolling through sheets and sheets of parts. Instead, each part should really be a catagory, and the specifics can be changed later via tweakables. For instance, the number of tank parts can be reduced to one by making diameter and aspect ratio "tweakable" parameters (the available options of which are unlocked with the tech tree). Thus, you only have one fuel tank, and you can use tweakables to make the aspect ratio and diameter that you want. Similar things can happen for decouplers (just diameter) and landing gear (just "size"), so you only see one part in the part list, but can change its size with a tweakable. Solar panels and batteries as well. Thus, each part in the part list is more like a "category" rather than an exact part itself. This feature will also make it easier to modify existing designs without having to detach and delete parts since you can simply change the tweakable on the existing part.

(4) All wings should include tweakables for fuel, solar panel covered area, and heat shields (the tweakable list might depend on if the relevant mods are installed). All fuel tanks should include tweakable for solar panels and heat shields (heat shields in particular).

(5) by default, the game should not let you warp past a maneuver node; it should automatically cancel time warp (similar to what Kerbal Alarm Clock does, but without having to set an alarm or download a mod; if you think about it, adding a maneuver node should mean you automatically dont want to time warp past it). Similarly, the game should not let you warp past SOI changes (since they mess up accuracy; alternatively, they should fix the root cause of the inaccuracy upon warping through SOI changes).

Edited August 17, 2014 by arkie87

[r4pt0r]

chatterer. and whatever mod gives clouds.

[RocketPilot573]

What about NEAR? The current "aerodynamic" system has been in the game since the 1st update and has not been changed since.

[sal_vager]

SelectRoot, RealChute, Mk2 Cockpit and KerbPaint

[Guest]

I would add:

(1) Real Solar System. We can scale up the Kerbol system to realistic sizes and densities.

(2) Real Fuels. Because more options is always better and players can learn about all aspects of space travel, like cryogenic boil-off.

(3) FAR. Becase stock aero, nuff said.

(4) Advanced Jet Engine. To go with FAR and Real Fuels.

(5) Deadly Reentry. This just makes so much sense.

For me, those are "no-brainer" mods that should become stock.

[arkie87]

What about NEAR? The current "aerodynamic" system has been in the game since the 1st update and has not been changed since.

Yes, I've used near, but i think its a bit too simple, but still better than stock drag in KSP. I didnt include it because i think the developers are planning to improve stock drag anyway.

[Loligoat]

Kerbal Engineer is something that should've been stock a long time ago. Kerbal Alarm Clock is very convenient for running multiple missions at once and getting transfer windows right. And I honestly can't play the game without Better Atmospheres.

[arkie87]

I would add:

(1) Real Solar System. We can scale up the Kerbol system to realistic sizes and densities.

(2) Real Fuels. Because more options is always better and players can learn about all aspects of space travel, like cryogenic boil-off.

(3) FAR. Becase stock aero, nuff said.

(4) Advanced Jet Engine. To go with FAR and Real Fuels.

(5) Deadly Reentry. This just makes so much sense.

For me, those are "no-brainer" mods that should become stock.

I think the real solar system is uneccsary and could be added by players that want it with mods. Real fuels and advanced jet engines adds added complexity which can be added by advanced/bored players as desired.

I think the dev's do plan on implementing better aerodynamics, though i think FAR is a bit too realistic for the average player, and all the tools the mod adds scares some noobs. Deadly re-entry i think the devs will also eventually add, but it definately needs to be tweaked by the devs, perhaps based on a difficulty setting that players select when starting a new game.

[Guest]

I think the real solar system is uneccsary and could be added by players that want it with mods. Real fuels and advanced jet engines adds added complexity which can be added by advanced/bored players as desired.

I think the dev's do plan on implementing better aerodynamics, though i think FAR is a bit too realistic for the average player, and all the tools the mod adds scares some noobs. Deadly re-entry i think the devs will also eventually add, but it definately needs to be tweaked by the devs, perhaps based on a difficulty setting that players select when starting a new game.

You wanted a list of "no-brainer" mods that should be stock. IMO those are all "no-brainers"; I don't play without them and I definitely think they should all be stock.

[arkie87]

Kerbal Engineer is something that should've been stock a long time ago. Kerbal Alarm Clock is very convenient for running multiple missions at once and getting transfer windows right. And I honestly can't play the game without Better Atmospheres.

I agree, KER is essential for players who dont want to play the game with a calculator and formula sheet in hand (and lets face it, its a game, so no one should be playing it like that). I definitely support KER more than mechjeb, since i am a fan of giving players the info they need to perform complex maneuvers rather than doing the maneuvers for them. The only problem with KER, is i dont know how they will integrate it into the current GUI in a way that makes sense.

I can also see how Kerbal Alarm Clock is also very useful (though im not sure how they can integrate it into the game GUI any better than the mod currently does). However, I usually only use it to prevent myself from skipping through maneuver nodes (and im often too lazy to even set the alarm for it), since i usually like to focus on one mission at a time, and not have a bunch of missions running at once. Thus, i would prefer if maneuver nodes automatically killed time warp, since, after all, it makes sense...

Perhaps the game should also know that since warping through SOI changes messes with accuracy, the game should stop warm upon SOI change. Or, alternatively, change the way time warp works so that it doesnt cause errors...

[sal_vager]

Hmmm, the term "Total conversion" comes to mind for some reason....

[MartGonzo]

My 2p:

Deadly Re-entry

Kerbal Alarm clock

Precisenode

Kerbal Engineer Redux

Spaceplane plus

Tweakscale

Infernal Robotics

DebRefund

Haystack continued

Chatterer

and finally Scansat.

Edited August 17, 2014 by MartGonzo

[arkie87]

You wanted a list of "no-brainer" mods that should be stock. IMO those are all "no-brainers"; I don't play without them and I definitely think they should all be stock.

My list is mostly meant to include simple mods that dont really change gameplay, but will make the game more symmetric and intuitive. Does that make sense?

[Guest]

My list is mostly meant to include simple mods that dont really change gameplay, but will make the game more symmetric and intuitive. Does that make sense?

From my POV, all the mods I listed fall into one or more of your categories there (most especially "intuitive") "No-brainers" vary for each and every player, therefore your list here will eventually encompass all mods.

[arkie87]

My 2p:

Deadly Re-entry

Kerbal Alarm clock

Precisenode

Kerbal Engineer Redux

Spaceplane plus

Tweakscale

Infernal Robotics

DebRefund

Haystack continued

Chatterer

and finally Scansat.

Precise node (though they still need to add a button to lock magnitude) and HAystack are definitely mods i would agree should be stock, but the devs would need to find a clever way to integrate it into the GUI. KER and KAC, ive already commented on.

[arkie87]

From my POV, all the mods I listed fall into one or more of your categories there (most especially "intuitive") "No-brainers" vary for each and every player, therefore your list here will eventually encompass all mods.

That's probably inevitable when you discuss anything on the internets...

[Whirligig Girl]

(3) Procedural everything (wings, SRB's, fuel tanks etc... except engines). In career mode the maximum sizes will be limited according to the tech tree (or just the engines will be limited-- like in stock 0.24-- that way the sizes are limited naturally by what can be lifted by current rocket technology). Procedural parts are obviously great for the game, since it makes players require fewer parts to stitch together creations (which is better for fps/cpu usage). Furthermore, it adds a new dimension to the game since it allows players to really customize their planes, rather than just use stock parts. Finally, it reduces the need for part packs to add new wings/fuel tanks/SRB etc... greatly simplifying the game.

NO. Absolutely no. It destroys creativity and would render almost every part useless.

The only part that makes sense to be procedural is Fairings. Otherwise it's quite complex to get good fairing shapes/sizes.

[arkie87]

NO. Absolutely no. It destroys creativity and would render almost every part useless.

The only part that makes sense to be procedural is Fairings. Otherwise it's quite complex to get good fairing shapes/sizes.

How does it destroy creativity? If anything, it increases it since it allows you to design ANY shape?

Also, its pretty much the point -- its supposed to simplify the game by making the 100 different wing combinations from various part packs unnecessary, since you can just design your own?

[Whirligig Girl]

You wanted a list of "no-brainer" mods that should be stock. IMO those are all "no-brainers"; I don't play without them and I definitely think they should all be stock.

Problem is that most people don't use RSS. Sometimes I play 6.4:1 scale or even RealEarth-scale RSS configs. The game was never and never will be meant to give a fully accurate gameplay. To each his own, and if Squad implemented Real-Scale, it would be too hard for most players. I agree that KSP can be more fun with RSS, but this is Kerbal Space Program, not Human Space Program. NovaSilisko once said that KSP is in an alternate universe.

A lot of KSP has been simplified for the sake of gameplay, because KSP is a game built around a simulator, not an actual simulator.

EDIT:

How does it destroy creativity? If anything, it increases it since it allows you to design ANY shape?

Also, its pretty much the point -- its supposed to simplify the game by making the 100 different wing combinations from various part packs unnecessary, since you can just design your own?

KSP is about modular pieces. Additionally, if you make an extremely long fuel tank that is just one part, it will not flex and move like it should. If you can make a single tank that is the end-all solution for everything else, you remove the challenge in designing a rocket that can work.

In RSS, however, your only enemy is physics. Since the problems of the physics of getting to orbit and landing are so vast in RSS, you need to be able to make any tank you need to do the task, and that's in large part due to the fact that ship designs need to be more realistic and less creative anyway. You need to focus on the problems physics gives you, and be less concerned with how to fit the fuel tank in the most aesthetically pleasing way.

I would stop playing KSP if stock KSP had procedural tanks, and I'm sure most stock-only players would as well. If those players wanted procedural parts, they'd download the mod. These features that are out-of-scope of the game should always be kept in mods. To be clear, the creator of RSS, ProceduralTanks, and RealFuels have done a good job in making these mods, and I even enjoy playing with them on a separate save file, but these mods do NOT fit in the scope of the stock game.

Edited August 17, 2014 by GregroxMun

[thereaverofdarkness]

Kerbal Attachment System - it's only buggy because it's a mod that doesn't have enough support. We should be able to upgrade our old craft with new parts without being forced to scrap them.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Just one - Hyper edit

[arkie87]

Problem is that most people don't use RSS. Sometimes I play 6.4:1 scale or even RealEarth-scale RSS configs. The game was never and never will be meant to give a fully accurate gameplay. To each his own, and if Squad implemented Real-Scale, it would be too hard for most players. I agree that KSP can be more fun with RSS, but this is Kerbal Space Program, not Human Space Program. NovaSilisko once said that KSP is in an alternate universe.

A lot of KSP has been simplified for the sake of gameplay, because KSP is a game built around a simulator, not an actual simulator.

EDIT:

KSP is about modular pieces. Additionally, if you make an extremely long fuel tank that is just one part, it will not flex and move like it should. If you can make a single tank that is the end-all solution for everything else, you remove the challenge in designing a rocket that can work.

In RSS, however, your only enemy is physics. Since the problems of the physics of getting to orbit and landing are so vast in RSS, you need to be able to make any tank you need to do the task, and that's in large part due to the fact that ship designs need to be more realistic and less creative anyway. You need to focus on the problems physics gives you, and be less concerned with how to fit the fuel tank in the most aesthetically pleasing way.

I would stop playing KSP if stock KSP had procedural tanks, and I'm sure most stock-only players would as well. If those players wanted procedural parts, they'd download the mod. These features that are out-of-scope of the game should always be kept in mods. To be clear, the creator of RSS, ProceduralTanks, and RealFuels have done a good job in making these mods, and I even enjoy playing with them on a separate save file, but these mods do NOT fit in the scope of the stock game.

I agree with you in part (pun intended--im not sorry). Procedural parts, like long SRB's, would be less realistic since they wouldnt wobble. However, this can be accounted for by making the mass of the SRB increase in order to make the SRB structurally sound, and this effect would not have to be linear. This can be implemented into procedural parts in order to balance it. Nevertheless, i think the overall game should encourage using fewer, bigger parts, rather than attaching 100's of smaller parts together for "realism" in order to simulate wobbling, since 100's of parts will always be inherently bad for fps/cpu usage. In my opinion, simulating wobbling is kinda pointless, since, all you have to do is add more struts, and struts are mass-less anyway...

I do think that procedural wings are necessary, since wings, unlike other parts, are customized to exact specifications even in the real world...

Perhaps one way to compromise is something like tweakscale, which will improve the intuition and symmetry of the game by reducing the number of parts you see in the partlist (which i am a big fan of-- already there are too many sheets, and i have to scroll through them even without any part pack mods!); instead of needing to select a short 1m, 2m, 3m, or 5m part, you simply select a short fuel tank, and can tweak it to be 1m, 2m, 3m, or 5m later. Thus, the part is variable diameter, but constant aspect ratio, and as you move through the tech tree, you get better aspect ratios, and unlock new tweakable options for larger diameter tanks). This can be applied to every part in the game, especially if you use TAC life support-- instead of having pages and pages of different life support canisters, just have one for each type, and allow tweakables to resize the items. I am going to revise my first post to include this idea.

[arkie87]

Kerbal Attachment System - it's only buggy because it's a mod that doesn't have enough support. We should be able to upgrade our old craft with new parts without being forced to scrap them.

I agree 100%. Something like KAS is necessary and even realistic. I should be able to refuel a spaceship in orbit without needing it to have a docking port... Maybe even this will enable building small spaceships meant for towing around large items for attachment if jeb's EVA suit isnt sufficient...

[Whirligig Girl]

I hate tweakscale for the same reasons as Procedural parts. I suppose I could agree with you on procedural wings, though.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree 100%. Something like KAS is necessary and even realistic. I should be able to refuel a spaceship in orbit without needing it to have a docking port... Maybe even this will enable building small spaceships meant for towing around large items for attachment if jeb's EVA suit isnt sufficient...

YES! THIS! but I don't think this counts as a "no-brainer" because it's quite difficult to simply implement.

[arkie87]

I hate tweakscale for the same reasons as Procedural parts. I suppose I could agree with you on procedural wings, though.

What about the fact that having tweakscale will significantly reduce the number of parts in the part list, and prevent you from having to sift through sheets and sheets of parts. I only need one fuel tank and one decoupler, and i can tweak their sizes later. Thus, you will only have one sheet (PER item type like propulsion, control etc..) and i wont have to sift through sheets and sheets looking for the right sized decoupler?

Edited August 17, 2014 by arkie87