Screw this!

[Streetwind]

So this is probably one of the most off topic posts ever, but who knows - maybe there's a DIY inclined person around who can offer advice

I need to loosen some screws that are holding wooden boards to a guardrail. Said wooden boards are still in relatively good condition, considering they're almost 25 years old, and have been exposed to the elements for the entire time. The wood is now in a state somewhere between swollen and fossilized. And the screws, well - about half of them can be loosened with great effort, but the other half might as well be fused with the boards for all it feels like.

I've looked online for tricks on loosening stuck screws, but all of those - such as heating/freezing, hammering at them etc - seem to be useful for handling something that's rusted shut. This is not the case here. The screws are simply stuck in the wood with the stubbornness of a dejected mountain. I tried WD-40, but that seems to be absorbed by the wood rather than lubricating the screw.

Any ideas? Or am I quite literally screwed?

[gmiddlemass]

Bit of a random question for here as you say but my advice would be to try and get hold of an impact driver if you can, they're great for things like this.

[Nibb31]

yes, I'd say use an impact driver.

However, if the screw heads are damaged or worn, then the impact driver won't work. In that case, you will have to drill them out, with a super hard metal bit. If the screws are large enough, then drill a hole into the screw head and use an easyout to remove the screw. Beware, easyouts are very hard metal and easily break. If it does break, then all is lost.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Nibb31

[Streetwind]

I just looked that up. Sounds good! One point though - these are philips head screws, meaning I have issues with cam-out... a lot of what makes this so difficult is that I could probably turn harder if I didn't have to throw my entire body weight against the screwdriver to keep it from slipping. Will an impact driver even be able to put its torque to use in this case?

[Rabid Bat]

You could try amanual impact driver. Don't need to put all you're body weight into either.

[Belphegor]

are you planning on re-using the wooden boards? if not, isntead of removing the screw remove the wood itself.. split the wood around the screw with a hammer and chisel to loosen it's grip on the screw. or go the easy way and put the boards on fire

[Streetwind]

Yeah, we want to reuse the boards.

[Nibb31]

An impact driver converts the force of a big heavy hammer blow into rotational torque. As long as the Phillips grooves on the head of the screw are ok, all you have to do is to hold the impact driver upright over the screw while you bang the screwdriver. No rotational force is required on your part.

[Brethern]

First off find an impact gun, cheap ones don't last but for what you need it for getting a commercial one is pointless.

When you go to remove the screw before backing it out leave the driver in forward and drive the screw in deeper, this seems counter productive but there is a good reason for it, it helps loosen the screw allowed it to be removed easier.

Failing that find someone who owns a sawzall and use it to cut between the board and where it's screwed on.

[Dispatcher]

If the heads are exposed enough, you could try using either locking pliers or a nail puller. These might score the wood, but having been exposed to the elements, you would probably want to refinish the boards prior to reuse anyway.

[Guest]

Could you post a picture or 2 of what your working on? This is just the kind of thing I find fun and challenging - how to get things done without spending a crap load of money. I had a big pile of reclaimed lumber from an old barn that I've used up for different projects around the house. Removing screws often comes down to brute force and lots of patience. Sometimes, you just have to grind the screws down and leave them there. It actually kind-of adds character to the wood, depending on the project you have in mind. If your trying to separate 2 pieces of wood that are screwed together, nothing beats a saw-zaw, or a reciprocating saw. If there is room to position the saw correctly, the blade will slide between the 2 pieces of wood and cut through the screw. If you are in the US, saw-zaws aren't terribly expensive : http://www.harborfreight.com/6-amp-reciprocating-saw-with-rotating-handle-65570.html. Maybe you've got a neighbor that will let you borrow one? Pictures will help me give you some better advice for the specific project you're working on.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Otis

[Brethern]

If the heads are exposed enough, you could try using either locking pliers or a nail puller. These might score the wood, but having been exposed to the elements, you would probably want to refinish the boards prior to reuse anyway.

That's more likely going to break the screws and accomplish nothing. And trust me pliers are going to be a PITA for this.

[Streetwind]

The current plan is to cut a regular slot into the screw heads (they're nice and bulgy) and then use an impact driver with a regular screwdriver head that won't slip. We only want to recover the boards, not the screws.

This may take a while however as we have neither the equipment to cut the slot nor an impact driver We'll probably end up either borrowing that from friends, or hire someone with the proper tools.

[Nuke]

in my experience: crowbar. get out all the screws you can to minimixe damage. some you might be able to cut wit a reciprocating saw. the crowbar would probibly do less damage. exploit metal fatigue whenever possible.

[Brethern]

The current plan is to cut a regular slot into the screw heads (they're nice and bulgy) and then use an impact driver with a regular screwdriver head that won't slip. We only want to recover the boards, not the screws.

This may take a while however as we have neither the equipment to cut the slot nor an impact driver We'll probably end up either borrowing that from friends, or hire someone with the proper tools.

Why are you making more work for yourself? Flat head bits are one of the worst things to be using. Your better off using the Phillipp's bit and removing them that way.

Sources.

I am a carpenter.

[Belphegor]

so much trouble for some screws.. i stick to my previous solution. burn it. it's fun

[cantab]

Drilling them out will be a bit tedious but it's nearly sure to work if unscrewing fails.

[Dispatcher]

That's more likely going to break the screws and accomplish nothing. And trust me pliers are going to be a PITA for this.

I suppose the two main factors are about the condition of the screws and the skill of the tool user. Turning screws with locking pliers and also twisting screws using nail pullers works for me.

[Brethern]

I suppose the two main factors are about the condition of the screws and the skill of the tool user. Turning screws with locking pliers and also twisting screws using nail pullers works for me.

Screws are known for their low shear strength, there's a very good change a cats paw will break them. Even trying to back the screws out of the hole might not work. They however are the easier options and require the least amount of skill to do.

Most carpenters will use a sawzall to cut the joint where the screws are and then deal with them that way.

[Camacha]

If you are reusing the wooden boards, what exactly are you trying to achieve? Might it not be better just to leave it be?

[Streetwind]

Why are you making more work for yourself? Flat head bits are one of the worst things to be using. Your better off using the Phillipp's bit and removing them that way.

Sources.

I am a carpenter.

Using the Phillipp's bit doesn't work because of cam out.

Source: actually trying this with the screws in question.

If you are reusing the wooden boards, what exactly are you trying to achieve? Might it not be better just to leave it be?

They are to be sanded down, painted with with wood protection varnish and a new coat of color, and reattached. Doing this while leaving them in place isn't really an option because this is on a balcony, meaning you can't get to the out-facing side without a long ladder, which is incredibly difficulty to position on the steeply sloped terrain below the balcony.

[Dispatcher]

Screws are known for their low shear strength, there's a very good change a cats paw will break them. Even trying to back the screws out of the hole might not work. They however are the easier options and require the least amount of skill to do.

Most carpenters will use a sawzall to cut the joint where the screws are and then deal with them that way.

It would be nice to have pics of the project in question. It'll be easier to tell if a sawzall would be practical in terms of space and angling. And it is true, I'm not "most carpenters". As you know, each has his or her own approach, depending on the circumstances. Again, pics would be helpful.

Edit: I didn't mean using a cats paw, which is more for rough carpentry, but for a rocking nail puller more like those used in finish carpentry and cabinetry. I don't see a pic of what I've used, as they have wider heads, but this will give a general idea of the concept:

http://stockhoffsonline.com/acatalog/FPD%20Crease%20Nail%20Puller%20Angle.jpg

Edited August 22, 2014 by Dispatcher

[Brethern]

Using the Phillipp's bit doesn't work because of cam out.

Source: actually trying this with the screws in question.

They are to be sanded down, painted with with wood protection varnish and a new coat of color, and reattached. Doing this while leaving them in place isn't really an option because this is on a balcony, meaning you can't get to the out-facing side without a long ladder, which is incredibly difficulty to position on the steeply sloped terrain below the balcony.

Were you using a screw driver or an impact gun?

[Camacha]

They are to be sanded down, painted with with wood protection varnish and a new coat of color, and reattached. Doing this while leaving them in place isn't really an option because this is on a balcony, meaning you can't get to the out-facing side without a long ladder, which is incredibly difficulty to position on the steeply sloped terrain below the balcony.

Tie yourself to something with a harness (but only if you sort of know what you are doing, inform yourself and use a generous serving of common sense). If you are going to take things that old apart, you really need to take into account that you will probably be replacing some parts, and probably quite a few. It never comes apart in ways you like.

[Zipmafia]

I'm no professional (carpenter at least) but a few things come to mind.

As far as i know WD-40 just breaks down oxidation, it doesn't lube at all. Try some dry graphite (Garage door lube), or good old olive oil.

It seems to me though that it might just be impossible to back out the screws, with the threads. I can't remember the name of the tool, but it is like an awl with a flat head used for stubborn or broken screws. Use a vice to wedge that thing against the stubborn screw, then turn until it pops out.

A good friend and mentor once told me "If it is giving you trouble, yell at it", for some reason this works for both of us. Give it a try, don't be afraid of offending the screw.