think a little, guys!

[JtPB]

seiously, ive seen many people saying 'theres mod for that' on almost every suggestion post! think! if the person who opened that post, this is a sign that he want it to be in stock. he may knew about the mod before, but he dont want to use it, he want to be directly in vanilla!

[mangekyou-sama]

Not really sure what's the point in making this post but eh, it's your opinion. Although it's kinda flawed.

[JtPB]

Not really sure what's the point in making this post but eh, it's your opinion. Although it's kinda flawed.

should i post it in the suggestions?

[treejoe4]

Not really sure what's the point in making this post but eh, it's your opinion. Although it's kinda flawed.

This forum is absolutely packed with passive aggressive behaviour, it is pathetic.

OP has simply brought up the annoying 'mod for that' posts in the SUGGESTIONS area of the forum.

[Tw1]

This forum is absolutely packed with passive aggressive behaviour, it is pathetic.

OP has simply brought up the annoying 'mod for that' posts in the SUGGESTIONS area of the forum.

The thing is though, it also frequently happens that people make suggestions because they feel something would add to their game play, and don't care if it comes from a mod, or the base game.

[WololoW]

seiously, ive seen many people saying 'theres mod for that' on almost every suggestion post! think! if the person who opened that post, this is a sign that he want it to be in stock. he may knew about the mod before, but he dont want to use it, he want to be directly in vanilla!

Did you know that on the bottom of the official forum rules, there's a link to a post of What Not To Suggest? I wonder how many of the suggestions that you are defending are found on that list.

[Linear]

I think the fact there's a mod for it is the same as saying people want it in the stock game.

[JtPB]

Did you know that on the bottom of the official forum rules, there's a link to a post of What Not To Suggest? I wonder how many of the suggestions that you are defending are found on that list.

i do looked at that list. are you expect me to rememeber all of those? of course, i know that weapons will not make a show in the game & things like that, but there's also many other little things...

[Epthelyn]

And any "There's a mod for that" post can be immediately backed up by:

"Squad can work on the game, whilst the modders add content that the developers don't have time to add; there are far more community mod developers than there are Squad employees/testers working on the game so it makes sense that unofficial content will be churned out considerably faster".

There's nothing wrong with suggesting content, but there's also nothing wrong with pointing out that such content already exists out of the stock game. This is especially true considering how long you'd be waiting if you hoped for every mod ever made to be official implemented (perhaps forever).

[Alshain]

I think the fact there's a mod for it is the same as saying people want it in the stock game.

Pretty much this.

To the op, your saying that when people make a suggestion we should let them go on for weeks, months, or forever thinking the functionality doesn't exist even when it does in the form of a mod?

[BlackAdder128]

I think the fact there's a mod for it is the same as saying people want it in the stock game.

The *amount* of demand for a particular feature is probably going to be roughly proprotional to the number of people asking for it. It may or may not be proprotional to the number of people willing to download a mod to enable the feature, depending on the particular mod.

For example, putting interstellar features or weapons in a mod is an attempt to change the game in a way that Kerbal space program is probably never going to go. It's basically a different game. The fact that people can add that to a mod is fantastic, but shouldn't be confused for demand for those features in the base game.

I would make a similar argument for many complexity adding realism features as well as things like the popular Kethane mod. Fantastic mod, maybe, but probably shouldn't be a stock feature.

[Kasuha]

Pointing out that requested feature is already available in certain mod is part of local folclore. Playing with or without mods is personal choice - the game is open to mods, some people use that opportunity, some don't for various reasons. Quite often the person suggesting a change isn't even aware there is such a mod and if he doesn't have problems with using mods, pointing out the mod is a help for them. Sometimes people point out there's a mod even though you openly state that you're not interested in a mod - maybe because they're lazy to read the whole post, maybe because it may help others who come to the thread, are also interested in the change and don't have problems in mods. By any means, I think there's no reason to be upset about it.

[Malaugrym]

seiously, ive seen many people saying 'theres mod for that' on almost every suggestion post! think! if the person who opened that post, this is a sign that he want it to be in stock. he may knew about the mod before, but he dont want to use it, he want to be directly in vanilla!

So you're saying that responses to requests for the ability to do something should not include directions on how to acquire said ability?

[The Jedi Master]

Look, it would be OK if it was just "...if you like mods, try this" after an actual comment on the suggestion, but no, often it constitutes the entire post. That isn't helpful at all.

[WololoW]

i do looked at that list. are you expect me to remember all of those? of course, i know that weapons will not make a show in the game & things like that, but there's also many other little things...

I expect very little from others.

The forum moderators on the other hand do expect you and anyone else posting suggested features to look at that list before starting a new thread about it, otherwise(as noted in that link) the thread will be locked and the discussion stopped.

I sincerely hope (but as I stated above, do not expect) that you also read through the forum rules and every other required reading on this forum.

EDIT**

I second this quoted question below-

Pretty much this.

To the op, your saying that when people make a suggestion we should let them go on for weeks, months, or forever thinking the functionality doesn't exist even when it does in the form of a mod?

Edited August 21, 2014 by WololoW

[Dunbaratu]

Pretty much this.

To the op, your saying that when people make a suggestion we should let them go on for weeks, months, or forever thinking the functionality doesn't exist even when it does in the form of a mod?

There's two different reasons someone might be posting the "that's already in a mod" reply:

1 - "Just in case you didn't know already, I'm letting you know you can get that if you want it in a mod."

2 - "It's pointless to make your suggestion because it's in a mod, so please knock it off and don't do it."

The problem is that because of the passive-aggressive way people have of speaking, especially on a moderated forum where they know they have to be careful about how they phrase things, people who are saying it helpfully for reason 1 look *identical* to people who are being jerks and saying it for reason 2. The response comes out the same either way. Thus its easy to take offense when you see it, because it's easy to misinterpret 1's as 2's.

[Javster]

But then, what if I really wanted Kerbals to do X in the game, and I wanted it now? A mod would be perfect while waiting for X to be in the game.

[Alshain]

There's two different reasons someone might be posting the "that's already in a mod" reply:

1 - "Just in case you didn't know already, I'm letting you know you can get that if you want it in a mod."

2 - "It's pointless to make your suggestion because it's in a mod, so please knock it off and don't do it."

The problem is that because of the passive-aggressive way people have of speaking, especially on a moderated forum where they know they have to be careful about how they phrase things, people who are saying it helpfully for reason 1 look *identical* to people who are being jerks and saying it for reason 2. The response comes out the same either way. Thus its easy to take offense when you see it, because it's easy to misinterpret 1's as 2's.

If you automatically assume the worst then everyone is out to get you. You will be a lot happier on the internet if you don't assume every short to the point comment is someone calling you an idiot.

[Kialar]

This forum is absolutely packed with passive aggressive behaviour, it is pathetic.

OP has simply brought up the annoying 'mod for that' posts in the SUGGESTIONS area of the forum.

I have to agree. In the last few weeks the mood here is going quite grumpy here.

Not that I would agree with the OP, as it is ok to state that there is a mod for this and/or that.

But after all it's not what one says, but how one says it. And the overall bias is feeling aggressive.

[BlackAdder128]

I have to agree. In the last few weeks the mood here is going quite grumpy here.

Not that I would agree with the OP, as it is ok to state that there is a mod for this and/or that.

But after all it's not what one says, but how one says it. And the overall bias is feeling aggressive.

I give the community more credit than that.

Yes, there are some people who will use "there's a mod for that" for a variety of unstated purposes:

* To remind the requester they didn't invent the idea they're asking for

* To remind them that at least some solution exists that they or someone they respect worked hard to implement in some really cool way

* To remind the user that, if a mod exists, there is a decent chance the devs are aware of the level of demand for a feature.

But on the whole, it's just a problem with online communication. Too many words and you lose people: too few and you lose meaning. People tend to err towards the latter: it takes less work.

[Kialar]

Yes, there are some people who will use "there's a mod for that" for a variety of unstated purposes:

* To remind the requester they didn't invent the idea they're asking for

* To remind them that at least some solution exists that they or someone they respect worked hard to implement in some really cool way

* To remind the user that, if a mod exists, there is a decent chance the devs are aware of the level of demand for a feature.

Signed.

But on the whole, it's just a problem with online communication. Too many words and you lose people: too few and you lose meaning. People tend to err towards the latter: it takes less work.

Not signed. Just read through the replies of the Dev Notes from August, 12th. The notes were nearly without content, no way around. But the replies were harsh.

And there are several other threads, where communication uses a lot of words and the semantics used were biased unfriendly. Of course this is a personal point of view.

Point is, the mood in the forums changed somewhere between 0.23 and 0.24. And I do not feel convinient with that.

[Wanderfound]

Look, it would be OK if it was just "...if you like mods, try this" after an actual comment on the suggestion, but no, often it constitutes the entire post. That isn't helpful at all.

Unfortunately, for a large proportion of the suggestions, the only honest comment I could make would be "that sounds like a completely terrible idea to me, and I'm very grateful that it has no chance of ever making it into the stock game (because it's an obviously terrible idea). However, there are a handful of other people who are into the same terrible idea, and here is how you find them".

Is that really better than "BTW, there's already a mod that does that; you can find it over here"? And in what way is the second version less helpful than the first?

[Linear]

The *amount* of demand for a particular feature is probably going to be roughly proprotional to the number of people asking for it. It may or may not be proprotional to the number of people willing to download a mod to enable the feature, depending on the particular mod.

For example, putting interstellar features or weapons in a mod is an attempt to change the game in a way that Kerbal space program is probably never going to go. It's basically a different game. The fact that people can add that to a mod is fantastic, but shouldn't be confused for demand for those features in the base game.

I would make a similar argument for many complexity adding realism features as well as things like the popular Kethane mod. Fantastic mod, maybe, but probably shouldn't be a stock feature.

That's not what this discussion is about; we're working out what people want to suggest, not working about whether those suggestions are realistic.

There are a lot of people who want interstellar/Kethane in the game, true it might not be the right thing however the fact the mods popular means that people should consider it, a suggestion.

[Alshain]

Not signed. Just read through the replies of the Dev Notes from August, 12th. The notes were nearly without content, no way around. But the replies were harsh.

And there are several other threads, where communication uses a lot of words and the semantics used were biased unfriendly. Of course this is a personal point of view.

Point is, the mood in the forums changed somewhere between 0.23 and 0.24. And I do not feel convinient with that.

I just think your reading to much into it (don't take that as passive aggressive either ). I read much of the Dev Notes thread and I didn't see anything I thought was passive aggressive. There were a few people dissapointed about what was announced (i.e. people that wanted to see other mod become stock or people that just don't enjoy planes). But it is a discussion forum, we do discuss. But if it helps, anything I say is not passive aggressive, if I'm upset about something you will know, and birds will fly the other direction.

[BlackAdder128]

That's not what this discussion is about; we're working out what people want to suggest, not working about whether those suggestions are realistic.

There are a lot of people who want interstellar/Kethane in the game, true it might not be the right thing however the fact the mods popular means that people should consider it, a suggestion.

I am only arguing that the existence of a mod should be considered separately from whether an idea is a suggestion.

Ok, yes it's fine to submit an idea regardless of whether it's in a mod. And yes, whether it exists in a mod is one of the the things that should be considered before pressing forward with a suggestion.

I thought this thread was essentially about protocol: what bearing, if any, should the existence of a mod have on a suggestion thread. I say it is a good thing to bring up, but a page full of "there's a mod for that" replies are not useful. You have to follow up with, "any I think it should/should not be part of the game for reason X" to be helpful.