[1.12.x] Freight Transport Technologies [v0.6.0]

[GeckoOBac]

It was an itch to scratch And one of those mods where I spend more time playing with it than making it - which is always a good sign.

Let there be space for science experiments (both modules and data) and it's going to replace the rover (as much as I like them, I find the wheels are just not a good method of locomotion in this game)

[RoverDude]

Let there be space for science experiments (both modules and data) and it's going to replace the rover (as much as I like them, I find the wheels are just not a good method of locomotion in this game)

Yep. Already done.

[Nori]

This may have been answered somewhere, so forgive me if it was. Where do you get LqdHelium for the reactor? I don't see a converter on any of your parts (MKS/OKS, Karbonite etc.). So is the only way to get it is when it is built?

[RoverDude]

This may have been answered somewhere, so forgive me if it was. Where do you get LqdHelium for the reactor? I don't see a converter on any of your parts (MKS/OKS, Karbonite etc.). So is the only way to get it is when it is built?

Correct - should last you a few years. That being said - I really should add some fuel tanks

[PaladinVito]

Just loaded up the updated mod, and I noticed something: You've moved the vast majority of the Honeybadger parts into the "Very Heavy Rocketry" node on the tech tree, but the command pod and SAS/RCS units are still in the very first node. Is this as intended?

[Ippo]

Hi RoverDude, awesome work! As always

By the way, I'm having a small issue: I can't attach anything radially to the cargo bay. Is this supposed to happen, or I did something wrong?

[RoverDude]

Hi RoverDude, awesome work! As always

By the way, I'm having a small issue: I can't attach anything radially to the cargo bay. Is this supposed to happen, or I did something wrong?

Nope - that's by design because it has moving colliders. It has attachment nodes on the inside to which you can attach other stuff that in turn can have other stuff attached to it... so one option would be to attach a long truss then radially attach other things.

[Ippo]

Nope - that's by design because it has moving colliders. It has attachment nodes on the inside to which you can attach other stuff that in turn can have other stuff attached to it... so one option would be to attach a long truss then radially attach other things.

Eh, I guess it'll have to do :/

Thanks anyway

[Vladthemad]

Works for me too - I have about 5gb of mods (the entire USI constellation, all of NFT, KSPI, and a host of others). I actually test in x64 because I figure if it works there it works on 32

I've been trying different mods with x64, and what I'm finding is that it seems to be somewhat related to mod intercompatibility issues and not so much a problem with x64 being "buggy". I can install just about any mod I want, alone, and not have any issues. Heck, I can even get a half dozen to play along nicely. It seems there are some that just refuse to work together though, and that's where the crashes start. I can pick one or the other out of certain pairs of mods and I'm fine, but if I try to get them to work together, they refuse! Hah. Sure makes it a pain in the ass trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, but does explain when half the people are crying about crashes and half say they have tons of mods with no problems.

[caipi]

I love those cargo bays, roverdude I just came up with a new way to build me space station:

(It's still work in progress, but that's gonna be the final stage of the rocket that delivers the station parts ).

It's awesome that the station parts fit perfectly into the cargobay. I wonder if I'll be able to deliver a ground base in a similar way With the cargobay opening not to the top, but on the belly to gently release the parts onto the ground

Edited September 3, 2014 by caipi

[RoverDude]

Just loaded up the updated mod, and I noticed something: You've moved the vast majority of the Honeybadger parts into the "Very Heavy Rocketry" node on the tech tree, but the command pod and SAS/RCS units are still in the very first node. Is this as intended?

Nope that's a whoops - fixed for the next patch

I love those cargo bays, roverdude I just came up with a new way to build me space station:

http://abload.de/thumb/screenshot1834rkk.pnghttp://abload.de/thumb/screenshot198cr8y.pnghttp://abload.de/thumb/screenshot218hogk.png

(It's still work in progress, but that's gonna be the final stage of the rocket that delivers the station parts ).

It's awesome that the station parts fit perfectly into the cargobay. I wonder if I'll be able to deliver a ground base in a similar way With the cargobay opening not to the top, but on the belly to gently release the parts onto the ground

Awesome They were designed with this in mind.

[Donziboy2]

Im noticing the engines not gimbaling in the right directions.

Its fine for pitch, but there is no yaw and it yaws when you want to roll.... Works fine on a vertical rocket not a horizontal VTOL.

So far my only luck has been using B9 HL based bodies and adding MSI docking washers to rotate the engines.

[RoverDude]

Im noticing the engines not gimbaling in the right directions.

Its fine for pitch, but there is no yaw and it yaws when you want to roll.... Works fine on a vertical rocket not a horizontal VTOL.

So far my only luck has been using B9 HL based bodies and adding MSI docking washers to rotate the engines.

I expect it's a matter of how the controls are set up on the source ship - but I'll look at my thrust transforms and take a look.

(EDIT) My current thought is to dump the gimbal entirely and instead add a high-thrust propfan RCS.

[Alastair412]

I've started playing around with this, and I had a very odd thing happen using the LFO VTOL engines set up using the tri-connector thingamajing (central structure with cargo hub and LFO tanks, external structure with 4x LFO VTOL engines) - the engines on the right side had their fuel supply depleted within a few seconds, while the left side engines and central tanks were untouched - as if there were fuel connectors from left to right.

On an unrelated note, your sig doesn't list this mod at all I second the person who said there needed to be a sort of index of all your awesome mods somewhere

[RoverDude]

I've started playing around with this, and I had a very odd thing happen using the LFO VTOL engines set up using the tri-connector thingamajing (central structure with cargo hub and LFO tanks, external structure with 4x LFO VTOL engines) - the engines on the right side had their fuel supply depleted within a few seconds, while the left side engines and central tanks were untouched - as if there were fuel connectors from left to right.

On an unrelated note, your sig doesn't list this mod at all I second the person who said there needed to be a sort of index of all your awesome mods somewhere

Working on both points for the next release

[Donziboy2]

I expect it's a matter of how the controls are set up on the source ship - but I'll look at my thrust transforms and take a look.

(EDIT) My current thought is to dump the gimbal entirely and instead add a high-thrust propfan RCS.

I will play with some stock engines and see if they do the same thing.

[Joachim]

I expect it's a matter of how the controls are set up on the source ship - but I'll look at my thrust transforms and take a look.

(EDIT) My current thought is to dump the gimbal entirely and instead add a high-thrust propfan RCS.

I second this as being a brilliant idea

[ozraven]

I've seen several replies to the thread of people looking to gain some control over the Honeybadger, with some good suggestions. I've been playing with a number of other plugins to see if I could tame the Honeybadger, with mixed results. Davon Throttle Control worked fairly well, once I took the time to RTFM. It's still a nice addition, as you can isolate the hover engines from the pusher engines. However, the plugin seems to interfere with the proper animation of the Honeybadger's engines, in my experience, and it's not quite the level of control I was hoping for.

It turns out, the best plugin I have found to tame the 'Badger is already included with FTT - Firespitter. Snjo has a lot of great tools in his Firespitter library, and based on some cues from Nazari's rigging of the (gorgeous) Kerbostar from the KSO System, I made the following Module Manager patch:

@PART[FTT_Engine_375_02]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = FSpropellerAtmosphericNerf
        thrustModifier = 1.0
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = FScopterThrottle
        hoverThrottle = 0.5
        cargoThrottle = 1.5
        hoverHeatModifier = 1.1		
    }
}

This adds several actions to the VTOL Atmospheric Engine, chief among them is Toggle Hover, along with Increase Hover Height and Decrease Hover Height. The setup is like this:

1. Build your Honeybadger, as balanced as you can make it.* (m4v's RCS Build Aid makes this much easier.)
   
2. Setup an action group to toggle hover for each VTOL engine.
   
3. Setup additional action groups for increase and decrease hover height, again for each VTOL engine.
   
4. Launch and do preflight as usual: Start the Reactor, fire up the VTOL engines (reduce throttle to zero first!).
   
5. Activate RCS and SAS. (Not required, but makes it even easier.**)
   
6. Now throttle up to just about where the 'Badger wants to lift up then activate Hover mode.
   
7. Leaving the throttle alone, use your "increase hover height" action group to lift off the ground and she should settle in to a nice easy hover.
   

* - I'm not sure how balanced it actually needs to be, in the album below you'll see a cargo mishap that Firespitter compensated for easily.

** - See the spoiler below for another helpful mod for RCS.

The rest is easy, just take it easy with small control inputs to move the badger around like a giant-yellow-doesn't-give-a-$#@! helicopter. Here are some tips on the hover mode from my experimenting:

• Hover mode seems to key on your current altitude when activated.
  
• Hover mode controls your altitude based on current radar altitude - be careful crossing over buildings, it will try to compensate for the sudden change in altitude! (This is a minor inconvenience going UP, and likely very 'splodey going DOWN.)
  
• Remember - small inputs. Hover mode will compensate for a lot of shifting around but the VTOLs are still fighting gravity and your momentum!
  

I tested this setup with a twin-engine Minibadger, and .. this:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I wish I had made a video, it was really quite easy and a blast to fly - after some practice on the smaller version. Tonight I'm going to see if the LFO VTOL engine can also be tamed the same way.

One other change I made was to experiment with a compressed air variant of the control module, using this Module Manager script, which requires B9 for the compressed air resource - surely there is something in the CRP that would be suitable, but in any case:

{
@name = FTT_Control_375_01_CompressedAirVariant
@title = 'Honeybadger' Compressed Air Control Module
@mass = 0.9
@MODULE[ModuleRCS]
{
@resourceName = B9CompressedAir
}
MODULE
{
name = USI_Converter
converterName = Air Compressor
conversionRate = 1
requiresOxygenAtmo = true
inputResources = ElectricCharge,4.0,IntakeAir,8.0
outputResources = B9CompressedAir,3.5,True
}
@RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
{
@name = B9CompressedAir
}
}

+PART[FTT_Control_375_01]:NEEDS[B9_Aerospace]

PS: RoverDude, FTT still depends on Karbonite for the KA_Jet_PropFan_01 engine sounds. (And you might recognize the B9 hull and cargo bay from the other night when I was trying to stuff an MKS module up the cargo ramp. Never did get that to work.. )

[McD92]

Hey Roverdude, huge fan of all your mods, they are awesome! Im having a problem with the FFT though, I have it assembled, everything looks good but for whatever reason I get no intake atmosphere... Im on Kerbin so IDK how that can be. Ideas?

[Donziboy2]

I've seen several replies to the thread of people looking to gain some control over the Honeybadger, with some good suggestions. I've been playing with a number of other plugins to see if I could tame the Honeybadger, with mixed results. Davon Throttle Control worked fairly well, once I took the time to RTFM. It's still a nice addition, as you can isolate the hover engines from the pusher engines. However, the plugin seems to interfere with the proper animation of the Honeybadger's engines, in my experience, and it's not quite the level of control I was hoping for.

It turns out, the best plugin I have found to tame the 'Badger is already included with FTT - Firespitter. Snjo has a lot of great tools in his Firespitter library, and based on some cues from Nazari's rigging of the (gorgeous) Kerbostar from the KSO System, I made the following Module Manager patch:

@PART[FTT_Engine_375_02]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = FSpropellerAtmosphericNerf
        thrustModifier = 1.0
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = FScopterThrottle
        hoverThrottle = 0.5
        cargoThrottle = 1.5
        hoverHeatModifier = 1.1		
    }
}

This adds several actions to the VTOL Atmospheric Engine, chief among them is Toggle Hover, along with Increase Hover Height and Decrease Hover Height. The setup is like this:

1. Build your Honeybadger, as balanced as you can make it.* (m4v's RCS Build Aid makes this much easier.)
   
2. Setup an action group to toggle hover for each VTOL engine.
   
3. Setup additional action groups for increase and decrease hover height, again for each VTOL engine.
   
4. Launch and do preflight as usual: Start the Reactor, fire up the VTOL engines (reduce throttle to zero first!).
   
5. Activate RCS and SAS. (Not required, but makes it even easier.**)
   
6. Now throttle up to just about where the 'Badger wants to lift up then activate Hover mode.
   
7. Leaving the throttle alone, use your "increase hover height" action group to lift off the ground and she should settle in to a nice easy hover.
   

* - I'm not sure how balanced it actually needs to be, in the album below you'll see a cargo mishap that Firespitter compensated for easily.

** - See the spoiler below for another helpful mod for RCS.

The rest is easy, just take it easy with small control inputs to move the badger around like a giant-yellow-doesn't-give-a-$#@! helicopter. Here are some tips on the hover mode from my experimenting:

• Hover mode seems to key on your current altitude when activated.
  
• Hover mode controls your altitude based on current radar altitude - be careful crossing over buildings, it will try to compensate for the sudden change in altitude! (This is a minor inconvenience going UP, and likely very 'splodey going DOWN.)
  
• Remember - small inputs. Hover mode will compensate for a lot of shifting around but the VTOLs are still fighting gravity and your momentum!
  

I tested this setup with a twin-engine Minibadger, and .. this:

http://imgur.com/a/2pnLN

I wish I had made a video, it was really quite easy and a blast to fly - after some practice on the smaller version. Tonight I'm going to see if the LFO VTOL engine can also be tamed the same way.

One other change I made was to experiment with a compressed air variant of the control module, using this Module Manager script, which requires B9 for the compressed air resource - surely there is something in the CRP that would be suitable, but in any case:

{
@name = FTT_Control_375_01_CompressedAirVariant
@title = 'Honeybadger' Compressed Air Control Module
@mass = 0.9
@MODULE[ModuleRCS]
{
@resourceName = B9CompressedAir
}
MODULE
{
name = USI_Converter
converterName = Air Compressor
conversionRate = 1
requiresOxygenAtmo = true
inputResources = ElectricCharge,4.0,IntakeAir,8.0
outputResources = B9CompressedAir,3.5,True
}
@RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
{
@name = B9CompressedAir
}
}

+PART[FTT_Control_375_01]:NEEDS[B9_Aerospace]

PS: RoverDude, FTT still depends on Karbonite for the KA_Jet_PropFan_01 engine sounds. (And you might recognize the B9 hull and cargo bay from the other night when I was trying to stuff an MKS module up the cargo ramp. Never did get that to work.. )

Nice, are you using FAR? Also you will get more stability if your COL is above the COM instead of below it. It will give it a tendency to roll back to level on its own.

Also I think we could possibly use IntakeATM for compressed atmo RCS.

[RoverDude]

Nice, are you using FAR? Also you will get more stability if your COL is above the COM instead of below it. It will give it a tendency to roll back to level on its own.

Also I think we could possibly use IntakeATM for compressed atmo RCS.

Yep, thinking the latter. Either way I need two RCS systems since I can't have the large RCS module stop working.

I have.... ideas.

[RoverDude]

So my thought is this.. What if I had a fairly large (think 1.25m diameter, possibly 2.5m diameter) ducted fan that was tied to the RCS system instead of the engine system.... and have it work off of intake atmo. Bonus: you could make flying drones capable of carrying a Kerbal...

[ozraven]

Nice, are you using FAR? Also you will get more stability if your COL is above the COM instead of below it. It will give it a tendency to roll back to level on its own.

No, not using FAR. I've got tons of mods in, most of them picked apart to get memory usage under control, and mostly stick to non-atmosphere flying. When I can get the x64 version working, I'm going to redo my whole setup with FAR involved.

You're right, and CoL and CoM aren't tuned on this build - it was quick to test how Firespitter handled lots of engines + lots of mass. Improved balance via CoL/CoM would probably make it even easier to get a solid motionless hover - just get most horizontal velocity out and then turn off SAS, essentially. I'll give it a go - now that I can fly the Honeybadger at low speeds, I'll be using it a ton.

Also I think we could possibly use IntakeATM for compressed atmo RCS.

Yes, IntakeAir/Atm would work. I just wanted to add the compressor part to help balance the endless supply of RCS plus B9 has other compressed air RCS thrusters. The way its set up, I've got a good reserve, but its not endless. It refills quick though, probably too fast. Also takes some power, but with the reactor, there's not much concern over power needs.

[madlemur]

So my thought is this.. What if I had a fairly large (think 1.25m diameter, possibly 2.5m diameter) ducted fan that was tied to the RCS system instead of the engine system.... and have it work off of intake atmo. Bonus: you could make flying drones capable of carrying a Kerbal...

Hmmm... Two ducted fans, some struts, and an external control seat. I think I've seen something like that... Oh yeah!

[RoverDude]

Hmmm... Two ducted fans, some struts, and an external control seat. I think I've seen something like that... Oh yeah!

The new one uses four, which makes sense.