[0.24.2] Interstellar Lite - Tweakscale Integration [v0.12.3][Sept 7]

[forsaken1111]

There seems to be almost an even split between people who liked the "Atomic Rockets: the Game" feel of 0.11 and people who prefer the gameplay-oriented stats in 0.12.

I've been working on a pack (ModuleManager patches to parts in 0.12 and additional configs using models from 0.11 that don't appear in 0.12) to approximate the old stats while still taking advantage of Community Resource Pack, TweakScale, and the updated plugin in 0.12. If I get to a stage where I'm happy with it, I'll release.

Sounds like a good compromise.

[Gecko99]

WaveFunctionP i have an error to report.

When adding a Deuterium/Tritium tank it falls off... I am attaching it to the generator and a battery pack... the rocket doesn't fall apart or break in hald, but the tank falls off...

Is this something you have picked up?

I am using a new save game since my last one fell apart

When you get a chance mate.

Thanks

The Gecko

EDIT : Only with the D/T Cryostat tank, the smaller radial mounted D/T tanks work fine... thoughts?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Gecko99

[Akira_R]

Seriously what is with all the hate for WaveFunctions new version? Since Fractal has been MIA he decided to fork KSP-I and take it in a direction that he feels improves gameplay. If you don't like it then by all means you don't need to use it, you can wait for Fractal to return and in the mean time WaveFunction still graciously provides the old version that he fixed to work with .24. Wave is not obligated in any way to continue developing his fork along the lines that Fractal originally set up, nor is he in any way obligated to continue to support the .11 release if future updates to KSP cause compatibility problems.

If you preferred Fractals version but want updates then by all means create your own fork, or like I said wait for Fractal to return, but keep the purely hateful comments to yourself, they don't help anything and are just plain rude.

Thank you for all your hard work Wave!!

[BlackSoldierB]

Make sure you have the brand new MKS version as it is now compiled against the new ORS build.

I downloaded both of Kerbonite and MKS the latest version. In my clean copy it crashes when i add PartCatalog, restart and try to go into VAB. (I don't see the growing icons at the first time)

Edit: It is fixed now, i installed first Kerbonite and MKS then Interstaller and then PartCatalog.

Maybe i shouldn't use ALT-F4 when testing and use the normal quit button .

Edited August 28, 2014 by BlackSoldierB

[ptr421]

If I attach stuff radially on reactors and launch it the ship goes off screen at 5-10km. It's still there if you zoom way out, by that I mean really way out. Any attempt at steering leads to huge G forces.

In main install the combination of FAR and DRE spins it and kills the reactor with Gs, then the view goes back to remaining debris. On clean install with only KSPI it stays like that forever.

[scerion]

A fine release Wave! Looking forward to testing it

Though, I thought we discussed, you were going to title it 'Water is Water' heh...

[WaveFunctionP]

A simple question: would it not be more in line with the recent nerfing of top tier reactors and the emphasis of subjective gameplay decisions over the physical (fantastic) potentials of future innovations to remove the warp drive alltogether and rename the mod?

Or to quote Scott Manley on your fork, who based a entire video series on this mod: "It's good to have this, but it looks like there's a lot of rebalancing that is concentrating more on gameplay rather than say the laws of physics."

Sorry if this sounds harsh, i like what you did (your work is exeptional) and the way you seemingly want to go, but in my opinion "interstellar" means more than near future mod + warp drive

I have no plans to remove warp drive. It is an interesting mechanic. It may see tweaks in the future though like requiring antimatter to run.

To be fair, I've always called this version kspi experimental and this was long before fractaluk had left. I think people just forget the experimental part. I have been careful to delineate that it is a different version. But it is still interstellar in my eyes. Most of the code is still kspi, I've just polished the presentation.

I am a huge fan of the kspi series by manley, and I have even offered to help him transition to .24.2 with a largely unmodified recompile that wont break his save. I received no reply because it looks like he is sticking with an old version for the rest of the series.

Honestly, I had expect a lot more hate for my version from the realism people. Geeks can be geeky like that. I get the appeal. I really, really do. But the experience was suffering more than I thought it should, so I took the opportunity to polish things up since no one else was doing it. The thing is, all the numbers are completely arbitrary. I've even had people offer real world pricing for the parts, which doesn't even begin to make sense. And lets not kid ourselves. Most of the stuff in the mod is speculation. There are no reactors that behave anything like even fractaluk reactors. Noone has ever taken an actual nuclear reactor, strapped a nozzle on the bakc end of it, and launched it into to space. KSPI from it's inception has always been INSPIRED by real tech. I would say it has been more accurately inspired by wild speculation on "real world tech". As publish physicist, I like to think that know speculation when I see it.

A game is about arbitrary rules. Soccer is a game because of it's arbitrary rules. The point of it all is fun, so you have to keep your eye on the ball. Realism can inspire rules to keep gameplay interesting, but it isn't interesting in and of itself. KSP is not a simulation, it is a simulation inspired space flight game about little green men on a tiny, soupy earth-like planet. It's quirky and light hearted, and it wouldn't be anywhere near a popular as it is now if they had went the heavy simulation route. I hadn't even heard of orbiter before KSP, and I've always been a space geek.

We can get into the casual vs hardcore debate, but keep in mind, when FPSs came out there was a big uproar about how they were for the casual player and adventure games were the hardcore games. It sounds silly now, as it should.

And lets not forget. I will opening up the mod to better support cross compatibility wherever I can. The more part config options I open up, the better you'll be able to have your realfuels, RSS, FAR, DRE, TAC "hardcore" experience. You'll be able to tweak the mod more readily with a MM pack. We aren't there yet, but it is in the cards. I what you guys to have your cake too. But the base experienced was in need of some polish and so that it what I prioritized.

Edited August 27, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[Dal]

The new build is great so far. I'm very appreciative of Wave's work to streamline things.

Has the upgrade mechanic been disabled entirely, however? All my components seem to be using base values, e.g. generators capping out at 50% carnot efficiency. The pieces' names seem to change based on size or some other factor, but the performance seems unchanged except for basic size-scaling.

PS: is the vista ISP minimum the previous maximum? It seems to have much higher efficiency than I remember. (It's also got an odd thrust scale, but I don't mind that much)

Edited August 27, 2014 by Dal

[WaveFunctionP]

I appreciate the gesture from some of you to defend me and I appreciate your support, but even negative feedback can be useful. I'd rather not see someone ostracized for having a dissenting opinion. This is a discussion and criticism gives me fuel to be better developer.

[INSULINt]

Pretty sure Manley is staying on 23.5 cus of stuff to do with robotics. TBH I'm always surprised when youtubers are able to upgrade ksp mid series.

[WaveFunctionP]

I deleted my whole gamedata folder and then installed my mods one by one. I still get the same effect. I will try a clean install with only Interstellar, Karbonite, MKS, B9 r5 and PartCatalog. In the debug window i see a lot of ArgumentExceptions.

Running 64 bit.

Any other tips?

Edit:

Karbonite -> MKS -> Interstellar works (for some reason not in the reverse order, it crashes at entering VAB).

Adding PartCatalog and restart KSP twice will crash on entering VAB.

I posted a video guide on installation and how to report bugs. I'm not the best speaker, but if you follow the advice I give, it will help me resolve your issue.

[WaveFunctionP]

WaveFunctionP i have an error to report.

When adding a Deuterium/Tritium tank it falls off... I am attaching it to the generator and a battery pack... the rocket doesn't fall apart or break in hald, but the tank falls off...

Is this something you have picked up?

I am using a new save game since my last one fell apart

When you get a chance mate.

Thanks

The Gecko

EDIT : Only with the D/T Cryostat tank, the smaller radial mounted D/T tanks work fine... thoughts?

Please link an output.log. There is a video in the OP that shows you how.

[Woodstar]

I have a quick question, Did you remove the methalox tanks or did I bork something up? I can't seem to find them.

[WaveFunctionP]

If I attach stuff radially on reactors and launch it the ship goes off screen at 5-10km. It's still there if you zoom way out, by that I mean really way out. Any attempt at steering leads to huge G forces.

In main install the combination of FAR and DRE spins it and kills the reactor with Gs, then the view goes back to remaining debris. On clean install with only KSPI it stays like that forever.

Please use the instllation guide that is linked in the OP, and if you still have an issue, use the directions provided to post the information I requested.

[undercoveryankee]

I am a huge fan of the kspi series by manley, and I have even offered to help him transition to .24.2 with a largely unmodified recompile that wont break his save. I received no reply because it looks like he is sticking with an old version for the rest of the series.

I think he said the critical sticking point is Infernal Robotics. IR had its general part renaming and adoption of TweakScale partway through 0.23.5, and with the number of pre-switch IR parts he had in flight, keeping 0.23.5 around for that save was easier than trying to convert all of his IR parts.

[kStrout]

Finally, a version of KSPI that might actually work.

[WaveFunctionP]

A fine release Wave! Looking forward to testing it

Though, I thought we discussed, you were going to title it 'Water is Water' heh...

hehe, yeah, I forgot about that.

[undercoveryankee]

I have a quick question, Did you remove the methalox tanks or did I bork something up? I can't seem to find them.

The methane and aluminium engines are both cut. so I suspect there wasn't enough reason to keep the tank around just as Yet Another Alternative for thermal rockets.

[WaveFunctionP]

The new build is great so far. I'm very appreciative of Wave's work to streamline things.

Has the upgrade mechanic been disabled entirely, however? All my components seem to be using base values, e.g. generators capping out at 50% carnot efficiency. The pieces' names seem to change based on size or some other factor, but the performance seems unchanged except for basic size-scaling.

PS: is the vista ISP minimum the previous maximum? It seems to have much higher efficiency than I remember. (It's also got an odd thrust scale, but I don't mind that much)

Most of the big upgrade mechanics and extra modes have been removed. There are still a few in there. each module implements upgrades differently, so I couldn't just go in a flip a switch even if I wanted to do that. there is still a lot of unused information in the parts files which won't change until I can clean the code up. It is hard going because there are next to no comments on fractals code, and I am not an amazing programmer so it's a tough slog just trying to figure out things are supposed to behave, nevermind how to change it.

[WaveFunctionP]

The methane and aluminium engines are both cut. so I suspect there wasn't enough reason to keep the tank around just as Yet Another Alternative for thermal rockets.

Yes, MethlyOx and AlOx tanks and engines had largely unintegrated gameplay and weak art, so they got the knife.

[Woodstar]

Yes, MethlyOx and AlOx tanks and engines had largely unintegrated gameplay and weak art, so they got the knife.

The Hybrid thermal turbojet still has the option to use MLOX was just wondering, my mun missions are going to be shorter now that i cant mine aluminium or use the AL Hybrid rocket.

EDIT: I SHALL ADAPT!

[Atrius129]

-Mad snips-

A game is about arbitrary rules. Soccer is a game because of it's arbitrary rules. The point of it all is fun, so you have to keep your eye on the ball.

You are the best. Thanks for doing what you do Wave.

[WaveFunctionP]

The Hybrid thermal turbojet still has the option to use MLOX was just wondering, my mun missions are going to be shorter now that i cant mine aluminium or use the AL Hybrid rocket.

EDIT: I SHALL ADAPT!

I was a able to do traditional biome hopping mission early in the tech tree. My minmus mission was able to use a nuclear reactor setup to catch most all of the biomes, and now I'm on the moon. With the buffed early nuclear tech, some different options open up.

I didn't remove methlyox from fuel selection with the idea that I would hand off fuel configuration to addons that specifically as more fuel types like realfuels. That way, "expert" players that want that functionality can have it while the newer player isn't overwhelmed by options.

[Woodstar]

Nice can't wait!

[Bongo_Brother]

I am a huge fan of the kspi series by manley, and I have even offered to help him transition to .24.2 with a largely unmodified recompile that wont break his save. I received no reply because it looks like he is sticking with an old version for the rest of the series.

would it be at all possible for you to release a version like this for the other people who would want to continue their .23 saves?