[0.24.2] Interstellar Lite - Tweakscale Integration [v0.12.3][Sept 7]

[INSULINt]

Confinement power was one of those things Wave simplified out.

Good to know!

Not quickly, but some waste heat is drawn down while the thermal turbojets (or rockets, or whatever) are running. as for animations, it might just be that you have some corruption left over from a previous version. there was a animation bug in Lite.12.1 or 2.

Hmm. Might try a reinstall of intersteller. I'm pretty sure its 12.3, but I'm not 100%.......

define efficient? ISP is a measure of reactant in to velocity out. if your "reactant" is free environmental air and a very small amount of uranium/deuterium/anti-hydrogen, then ISP of the limited resources carried on the vessel is neigh infinite. near the surface, you'll lose dV to gravity and drag over time, so a high thrust engine might be more efficient then a low thrust engine because you spend less fuel pushing air and working against gravity. Real rockets, incidentally, don't burn more fuel in atmosphere, they just have lower thrust, which is probably why squad chose an ISP curve, because it's easier to design around.

Efficient as in fuel consumption. I'm assuming that the thermal rockets use more fuel at < 70km up than in a vacume, and I'm more or less curious as to how much less past about 40km. I've been more or less brute forceing my current design into orbit, aka not using the jets to get enough speed before 35k (>_>) just to see how easy it is to get into orbit. Even if i am doing it the hard way LOL

[WaveFunctionP]

Hi Wave

Please Bro, whatever you do, don't let KSPI-lite die... I can't go through another massive mod change and this mod has been the core of my space program with its microwave power system and the hugely increased playability that is offered here as opposed to the original version of KSPI.

So big thanks and keep up the awesome work!

Regards

The Gecko

Sorry not being as active lately. I have other project that I also work on, but interstellar is core mod for KSP to me, and as such, so long as I am playing KSP will likely find things to muck around with.

For now am letting fractal get the bulk of his ideas implimented for his version, let the version numbers catch up so that that are not confusing. It will be a big undertaking to converge the code back with fractal's branch. That is the goal, although I plan to work where I can to get more customization into base kspi so that most changed do not need to be code based. Resource compatibility will need to be addressed. It's a sticky subject, but I am sure that with work it can be addressed.

Don't expect big things very soon. .25 will likely be just enough to keep your saves working while I find time to resolve the many tiny issues that will come up.

If I do my job properly, you guys will converge with KSPI's code base completely seamlessly, assuming kspi doesn't do any part breaking changes.

[Tau137]

Keep it up, WaveFunctionP! KSPI is an essential mod for me as well, and I greatly appreciate your work on mod upkeep while FractalUK was away. KSPI-Lite... lose some, gain some, but it is THE version I am currently running (just cannot quite get back to complexity of the original), although severely customized for reactor power settings (more in line with the classic version, sans upgrades) and resource costs (I am bored with Squad's repetitive career tasks, interplanetary mining industry is a lot better way of earning cash).

[VaporTrail]

NASA IXS class warship by Steve_D: Based on the NASA warp capable concept vessel.

Didn't you mean: "warpship" in there?

Sorry, I'm on a sick nit pick kick.

[AetherGoddess]

If I do my job properly, you guys will converge with KSPI's code base completely seamlessly, assuming kspi doesn't do any part breaking changes.

i'm glad you have returned; you were certainly missed. this is the only part i feel a bit unsure about. despite all my complaining, i like what you've changed, and i'm not all that excited about what fractal has chosen to spend his time on; i was hoping you'd keep this pack as a more focused version, folding in Fractal's concepts and vagaries as they fit into the gameplay model you had in mind, but keeping a focus on usability, playability and experiences.

and we can talk about the gameplay value of charged particles and confinement energy later

[Drew Kerman]

Didn't you mean: "warpship" in there?

That's all I ever see when I read the title to that thread, and it throws me for a loop every time. "NASA developed a warship??"

[INSULINt]

i'm glad you have returned; you were certainly missed.

+1

In the meantime, I did this (totally cupcake inspired, duh ):

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Apparently the sp+ wings that I used as anchor points for the outriggers crashed into the launchpad. At 3km up. Sigh

[Sgfried]

Did a quick search through the forum and didn't see anything about this, but When I hover over either of the two reactors in the parts list they begin expanding (I believe indefinitely) they reset when clicking on any menu tab. No idea what to look for to make this not happen (not a big deal but kind of annoying)

Have been loving this mod since Fractal disappeared, and I don't expect I'll ever go back. Keep up the great work

[Tebryn]

Did a quick search through the forum and didn't see anything about this, but When I hover over either of the two reactors in the parts list they begin expanding (I believe indefinitely) they reset when clicking on any menu tab. No idea what to look for to make this not happen (not a big deal but kind of annoying)

Have been loving this mod since Fractal disappeared, and I don't expect I'll ever go back. Keep up the great work

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91867-0-24-2-Interstellar-Lite-Tweakscale-Integration-v0-12-3-Sept-7?p=1425873&viewfull=1#post1425873

[Sgfried]

Thank you very much Tebryn. Did not realize it was the same issue. turned out I had 4 of those files in there

[Tebryn]

np, there are other things that can cause it, but that's the most common.

[rdwulfe]

I seem to be having problems getting Thermal Turbojets to enable LFO mode. Is there a trick to it?

EDIT:

Ah, is it "Basic Nuclear Fusion" that allows you to use UFO? I kinda wish that KSPI_Lite used icons for upgrades in the tech tree, like MechJeb does... Yep. That's what does it. Fixed.

Edited October 5, 2014 by rdwulfe

[JackCY]

we need a counter: "it has been FIVE posts since the difference question was answered." i'm afraid it would hover around zero too often.

Damn you wave, for making something that works and making it stable. all of the interesting conversations are happening at fractals thread because of all the bees in the reactor code. someone find a bug so we can all complain about how much it's hurting our sense of realism and immersion.

If it is a common question then explain it clearly and fully in the OP. Why the lite version exists, in what areas it is better in what it is worse.

For example:

KSPI: more complex, more parts, more bugs, harder to play, updated often and new features added

KSPL: less complex, less parts, fixed bugs but added some new, easier to play, updated rarely and mostly keeping it as is - not adding new things from KSPI

PLUS COMPATIBILITY, that's a big one and not addressed yet, how well does KSPL work with other popular mods compared to KSPI.

Does it work with B9 Aerospace? FAR? ... KSPI seems to have some issues with that.

[AetherGoddess]

If it is a common question then explain it clearly and fully in the OP. Why the lite version exists, in what areas it is better in what it is worse.

For example:

KSPI: more complex, more parts, more bugs, harder to play, updated often and new features added

KSPL: less complex, less parts, fixed bugs but added some new, easier to play, updated rarely and mostly keeping it as is - not adding new things from KSPI

PLUS COMPATIBILITY, that's a big one and not addressed yet, how well does KSPL work with other popular mods compared to KSPI.

Does it work with B9 Aerospace? FAR? ... KSPI seems to have some issues with that.

Until very recently, Wave was away on other business, but, if you inspect the Original post, you will see exactly what you are asking to be added. i quoted as much myself:

[Edited Liberally]

Interstellar Lite is a derivative of the KSP Interstellar, originally developed by Fractal UK. This version was developed, in part, by me, WaveFunctionP, not FractalUK. Do not blame him for broken stuff. (Assuming you can find him. )

Tweakscale Integration

Most parts will scale from .625m to 5m! The appropriate values are automatically adjusted for the new size. The mod includes a modified version of tweakscale which only includes configs for Interstellar and stock parts. If you have other parts you want to tweak, you will need to download the full version of tweakscale from the mod's author.

Part Pruning

Many parts were removed. The intent is to bring them back when/if they have a strong role. Many models have been removed as part of the tweakscale integration, they may find their way back eventually given a interesting use.

Part Rebalance

Scaling was out of control. Parts now have much more stock like behavior to fit within the confines of the kerbal sized universe. The focus was a on fun and interesting choices.

Bigger reactors have more thrust, smaller have more ISP. Higher tier reactors can be better, because of higher energy density, but have rarer resources. (Resource revamp is not done yet. Costs are placeholder.)

Radiators were buffed, especially radial radiators.

Huge and Inline versions were removed due to weak art.

Radiators now glow according to waste heat accumulation. (Thank Mellon85.)

Feature Pruning

Many upgrade mechanics were removed to reduce scaling and confusion. Most extra modes were removed from parts to reduce confusion as well.

This is affects reactors, radiators and generators as thier upgrades were simple stat inflation.

Only interesting upgrades/modes were kept like thermal turbojet's lfo mode or plasma's quantum vacuum mode.

Resource Compatibility

Many resources have changed to improve compatibility. The mod supports CommunityResourcePack. Expect much more tight integration with resource/life support/logistic mods in the future. This was the first step. The VAB has tweakable fuel resources with preliminary costs. (Not all that balanced.)

Polish!, Polish!, Polish!

A great deal of focus was spent on player messaging. Many tooltips, descriptions and buttons are improved over stock KSPI. Many of the weaker models were removed or replaced with better art. Many bug fixes.

On Compatability: B9 and FAR both work admirably with KSPi_LITE. i personally have both, and i have never run into any incompatibilities. Additionally, KSPi_LITE. uses the Community Resource Pack, meaning it can coexist (and even co-operate) with with Karbonite, MKS, ART, ScanSAT, NFT, Near Fuels, etc etc etc. For reference, i also use RemoteTech, SP+, Cacteye, universal storage, TVPP, KJR, Station Science, and most of Rover's and TriggerTech's constellations, with parts coexisting and cooperating on the same vessel.

One thing that has not been address that you bring up is the WHY. the proximate cause is that Wave stepped in to cover during the .24 upgrade cycle while Fractal was away on other business, and decided to release a comprehensive version for the benefit of everyone who was stuck running Fractal's .23.5 last release with third party patches. fractal as since returned, the the two mods have drifted apart in vision and features, with Wave's focusing on game play experience over minutiae, and fractal continuing on his previous path. We're all hoping there will be a cross pollination. some of the improvements that Wave has thrown in make a HUGE difference in usability, esp the compatibility, tweakscale, and usability, that could be back-ported to Fractal's version, where as Fractal's work on visual effects and new engines could expand gameplay options.

[smart013]

We're all hoping there will be a cross pollination. some of the improvements that Wave has thrown in make a HUGE difference in usability, esp the compatibility, tweakscale, and usability, that could be back-ported to Fractal's version, where as Fractal's work on visual effects and new engines could expand gameplay options.

Since youre reducing fractals "good bits" on shiny effects and nice new engines count me out of this "we're all hoping". This is your bias / agenda, not mine. The real KSPI and fractals philosohies are much more than that, and in my opinion still superior in most parts to lite. Your mileage may differ of course. But if i understood Wave right in his last postings afters fractals comeback both forks will be reunited in coming version numbers anyway. My guess is that his handling of ressource integration with the mod community will find its way in future KSPI versions, maybe some tweakscale support, but the bulk of changes with emphasis on gameplay over physics will go and find itself a new / old haven in waves private fork of KSPI as before.

And imho thats great

Edited October 5, 2014 by smart013

[futrtrubl]

If a deploy-able microwave transceiver is directly node attached to a generator that generator may use it as a thermal power source instead of an attached reactor. This is because it has a MicrowavePowerReceiver module that implements IThermalSource. Unfortunately only the thermal receiver actually produces thermal power. I presume this also goes for other parts. It should do a check for MicrowavePowerReceiver isThermalReceiver = true.

Edward

Edited October 6, 2014 by futrtrubl

[AetherGoddess]

Since youre reducing fractals "good bits" on shiny effects and nice new engines count me out of this "we're all hoping". [...]

Ya, i'll admit to bias. i struggled pretty hard on that bit. i just don't have a lot of passion for another reactor fueled engine (we already have four, two of which are arguably duplicated already; you'll have to convince me the ARCJet/plasma thruster and Thermal Rocket/Thermal turbo distinctions are meaningful), and i'm thoroughly uninterested in watching my kerbals die from radiation poisoning, so i had to drag the bottom for what i got. I don't want to disparage all of the work that Fractal has put in, because the KSPi only exists because of his vision, passion and work, but he's putting a lot of effort into things that aren't fun, interesting or, in some cases, even visible to the player. at least one case is actively player hostile: the removal of fuel from the reactors means that i have to add parts to store fuel when in most cases, i would have functionally never exhausted the default supply. i have three KSPi_LITE bases with reactors, and i haven't even cracked the external supply on any of them since the first one went up over 2 in-game years back.

i wanted to check my presuppositions, because dogma has a tendency to crop up when divisions like this start up, so i went through Fractal's Change Log and compared it to Waves since the split; there wasn't much delta, probably because good ideas are good ideas, regardless of where they start. the remainder basically broke down to a couple of systems that got a rewrite that is indistinguishable from before the rewrite, some new UIs to control settings that don't need to be controlled, stomping on Rover and ScanSAT, Plus VFX and Magnetic nozzles in the next version.

In the meantime, Lite has most of that already (excepting the telescope, wave just gave up on that one, and i could never make it work in .11/.23.5 anyways) and i have a mining operation that is using karbonite, ART, ScanSAT and KSPi to mine rock, karbonite, water, and uranium, and is producing LF, OX, MonoProp, and plenty of power for asteroid refueling bases.

i hope it doesn't come to this, but if a true split is in the cards, I'll take tweakscale, CRP friendly resources, and less-than-actively-hostile game modes.

[planetsabc]

umm fractal is back you can find his 0.24 and 0.25 versions here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-24-2-KSP-Interstellar-(KSP-0-24-2-Support-25-09)-Version-0-12-2

[daxington]

Just wanted to put in another cheer for Wave. I think you've done some pretty great things in Lite, and if nothing else, my poor computer thanks you for the lower part count in the mod. Really looking forward to the "convergence" of Lite and Int, since I'd love to get the science parts working properly with the stock science system (if that can be managed), but mostly I really appreciate what you've done with fuels.

Plus my career save is on Lite, so I'm stuck with you for the duration :P

But seriously, great work Looking forward to the .25 release as well (but no hurry for me, since I'm waiting on a bunch of other mods too)

[AetherGoddess]

Just wanted to put in another cheer for Wave. [...]Plus my career save is on Lite, so I'm stuck with you for the duration :P

But seriously, great work Looking forward to the .25 release as well (but no hurry for me, since I'm waiting on a bunch of other mods too)

I'm in the same boat. i have a giant career in .24/Lite that i'm waiting for updates before i get back into it. (i'm hiding a .24.2 version somewhere on my desktop, for "research" purposes). ya, KSPi 0.13 is out, but i'm really waiting for Lite. even if i could convert the career, i'm not really interested in the new features in KSPi, and i'd really hate to sacrifice the usability and polish of Lite for a bunch of complexity i'm not interested in. i also play with FAR with aerodynamic failures turned off and RemoteTech with signal Delay off, so i guess i just have a low threshold for gotcha gameplay.

[WaveFunctionP]

Just wanted to put in another cheer for Wave. I think you've done some pretty great things in Lite, and if nothing else, my poor computer thanks you for the lower part count in the mod. Really looking forward to the "convergence" of Lite and Int, since I'd love to get the science parts working properly with the stock science system (if that can be managed), but mostly I really appreciate what you've done with fuels.

Plus my career save is on Lite, so I'm stuck with you for the duration :P

But seriously, great work Looking forward to the .25 release as well (but no hurry for me, since I'm waiting on a bunch of other mods too)

I'll try to have something done by the weekend. No promises, but check back then.

I'm not even entirely sure what would be broken.

[Fractal_UK]

I'm not even entirely sure what would be broken.

Most likely all you need to do to restore functioning is replace any instances of

ResearchAndDevelopment.Instance.Science += [value]

with

ResearchAndDevelopment.Instance.AddScience([value], TransactionReasons.[ReasonOfChoice]);

they stopped ResearchAndDevelopment.Science from being publically setable.

[WaveFunctionP]

Most likely all you need to do to restore functioning is replace any instances of

ResearchAndDevelopment.Instance.Science += [value]

with

ResearchAndDevelopment.Instance.AddScience([value], TransactionReasons.[ReasonOfChoice]);

they stopped ResearchAndDevelopment.Science from being publically setable.

Thanks, I'm seeing the treeloader issue. I may need to wait to merge with your branch's changes before I have .25 compatibility. Or hope and pray r4mon shows back up.

edit: Wait, is the treeloader.dll loading or not?

Edited October 8, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[Fractal_UK]

Thanks, I'm seeing the treeloader issue. I may need to wait to merge with your branch's changes before I have .25 compatibility. Or hope and pray r4mon shows back up.

edit: Wait, is the treeloader.dll loading or not?

Treeloader is definitely loading but I think it is throwing an exception when it attempts to actually update the tree nodes.

[rdwulfe]

Keep up the good work, guys! You both do amazing work. I love how Wavefunction's version has Tweekscale integration, it makes things a touch less complicated in my install, I have to admit. I'm currently working with Fractal's Interstellar, and I admit I'm struggling.