Lost 90,000 kerbal money hiw can I make more easily?

[LABHOUSE]

Ok a few of my crafts crashed so that's why I lost that much I cannot get much science as I cannot get above 200,000 in a sub orbital only up to the fourth tier all done up to there but not much more. I cannot gain much money from the cost of recovering science from space near kerbin and the cost of getting there even with a suborbital path is more than the reward even when I recover everything. I am high in the tech tree and do not want to restart.

Edited September 1, 2014 by LABHOUSE

[Taki117]

Your best bet is to look at what contracts you can accept and take some of the part test ones. Also, you should probably think about redesigning your ships if you are having issues getting into orbit, though I am impressed that you got all of tier 4 complete with only sub orbital hops.

[TrooperCooper]

I play with to many mods to give balance-sensitive advice. But... something tells me that when you say you are "high in the tech tree" and are unable to make a profit from orbital and sub-orbital contracts, your designs must be seriously flawed. Maybe post some pictures with profit-orientated designs for part-testing contracts, including dV stats and staging (Kerbal Engineer ftw) so others can take a look.

[Renegrade]

Ok a few of my crafts crashed so that's why I lost that much I cannot get much science as I cannot get above 200,000 in a sub orbital only up to the fourth tier all done up to there but not much more. I cannot gain much money from the cost of recovering science from space near kerbin and the cost of getting there even with a suborbital path is more than the reward even when I recover everything. I am high in the tech tree and do not want to restart.

Well, here's some suggestions:

- If you have any part testing contracts, look for ones that are 'landed at Kerbin'. You can do these on the launchpad. Just remove any fuel and stage all the parts and recover afterwards. Free money and science.

- Build a ship with two RT-10s for engines, like below. Set the top one to 33% power, and the bottom to 60% power by right clicking them in the VAB and setting thrust limiter to those percentages. Remove monopropellant from the Mk1 pod with right click interface. It will be able to reach space (upwards of 212k) for only 2460 space bucks.

Going further than that will require a more..extensive tutorial.

For more science, make sure you're getting all you can:

- EVA reports are very biome-specific. Water is a different biome from Shores which is different from Grassland etc.

- Crew reports for all altitudes (altitudes: landed, flying 0-18km, flying high 18-70km, near in space 70-250km, high above kerbin 250km+)

- Goo pods (all altitudes)

- Science Jrs (all altitudes)

The landing pad, runway and the Kerbal Space Center have their own ground samples and EVA reports.

Once you have solar panels and thermometers, you can make a permanent satellite to collect that science for unlimited space bucks. The science does NOT have to be new science to count for the contract, you can transmit 0 science reports to complete it.

[LABHOUSE]

But I don't get any science at all. And I have gotten into orbit I just can't for 20,000 money I gained some.

[DeMatt]

But I don't get any science at all. And I have gotten into orbit I just can't for 20,000 money I gained some.

Three points:

1. Solid Rocket Boosters. They're cheap, both as a part and as the fuel they burn. Learn to love 'em.
   
2. Not every mission has to bring back science. It's okay to fly a few missions that earn money rather than science.
   
3. Quicksave (F5), Quickload (F9), Revert to Launch, and Revert to VAB. Quicksave before a maneuver, quickload if you flubbed it. Revert to Launch if your launch wasn't good enough, Revert to VAB if it's the design and not the piloting. Ironman mode is for when you actually know what you're doing; in the meantime, say "nope, that was a simulation!" and ignore the crashing.
   

[juanml82]

But I don't get any science at all. And I have gotten into orbit I just can't for 20,000 money I gained some.

There is a mod called science library which will let you know what science you can get in your current biome.

There are a bunch of biomes around the launchpad: the launchpad, the runway, the grasslands, shores and water. Just making a "plane" consisting in a pod and whatever science modules you have and loading it in the runway will give you some science:

Crew report on the runway

EVA report on the runway

Surface sample on the runway

Mistery goo on the runway

Materials lab on the runway

Granted, it won't be much, but it gives you the general idea and, depending on your research points, it may be just enough to unlock more parts. Parts contracts also provide some science.

[Wanderfound]

Quick ways to get √ at the start:

1) Many contracts offer advances that pay as soon as you accept them. Accept, ignore, spend.

2) Ground testing contracts. Stayputnik, girder section, test part, 100% recovery. Test rockets unfuelled.

3) Splashdown testing contracts. Stayputnik, parachute, test part, RT-10 with thrust limited and 90% of the fuel removed. Pop off the launchpad into the ocean just off KSC, test.

Easy ways to get √ once you're established:

1) Leave a Kerbal on the Mun. Every time a "plant flag" contract appears, step outside and add to your flag forest.

2) Leave a satellite in orbit with a probe core, battery, solar panel, radio and thermometer. Every time a "transmit science from orbit" contract appears, send in a temperature scan.

3) Leave a satellite in orbit with a dozen cheap detachable reentry pods built into it (Mk1 capsule, drone core, battery, RCS tank and thrusters, parachute). Whenever a "rescue Kerbal from orbit" contract appears, send one of the pods to go get him.

Completely missing the point of the √ system option:

1) Alt-F12, then hold down Alt for five seconds. Set current √ level to whatever you feel like.

-

And, as others have mentioned, SRBs are a lot cheaper than liquid rockets. Use them heavily in the early game.

Once you get the hang of them, SSTO spaceplanes blow everything else out of the water in economy terms (e.g.: fuel to orbit for less than √1 per unit), but that's for the advanced class.

[LABHOUSE]

Now I'm afraid to decouple anything.

Don't want to loose cash.

[SpaceXray]

1. Go to the saves folder and proceed to your save folder

2. Open the persistence file with notepad

3. Ctrl+F and search for "funds"

4. Change value to 99999999

5. ????

6. Profit

[capi3101]

Folks here have given you good advice - parts testing at launch and parts testing at splashdown is easy money. There are a few others as well (such as the cheatsy methods some folks are suggesting - use those or not at your own discretion).

Here's a question: what is your exact status in game (by which I mean how much money do you have to play with at the moment, and which techs have you unlocked? You said fourth tier techs...are you counting Starting Tech as Tier 1 or Tier 0?)

[LABHOUSE]

Folks here have given you good advice - parts testing at launch and parts testing at splashdown is easy money. There are a few others as well (such as the cheatsy methods some folks are suggesting - use those or not at your own discretion).

Here's a question: what is your exact status in game (by which I mean how much money do you have to play with at the moment, and which techs have you unlocked? You said fourth tier techs...are you counting Starting Tech as Tier 1 or Tier 0?)

Tier one I now have 24,000 money and also have a thermometer and basic jet engine unlocked.

[goldenpsp]

Don't want to loose cash.

Loctite can help with that

[Wanderfound]

Tier one I now have 24,000 money and also have a thermometer and basic jet engine unlocked.

In which case, you can get all the science you could want for virtually nothing. Build a basic jet plane, stick a thermometer and some goo pods on it and fly all over Kerbin collecting data from the different biomes. Also handy for performing atmospheric test contracts.

So long as you don't crash it and get it back to the KSC runway before recovery, the only expense will be a tiny fuel bill.

[Simes]

Also, don't forget to take surface samples and do crew and EVA reports.

[bartekkru99]

I'm using those contracts to make science. 48 science for activating an engine on the ground. WTF?!!!

[Wanderfound]

A lot of the part testing contracts pay very poorly in √ but make it up in science. A lot of the exploration contracts pay very well in √, but return little science.

This seems backwards, but it does make a kind of sense. If you're flying to Duna, you don't need science: you'll get plenty from running experiments while you're there. But you do need √; going to Duna is expensive. Grounded part testing contracts don't pay much, but they cost √0 to run; 100% recovery from the launchpad. OTOH, there isn't that much science available around KSC, so anyone stuck there doing ground tests could probably use the boost.

As well as providing a quick science boost for struggling newbies, I think the part testing contracts were also set up as they are in order to get around the "I'm two science points short of the next node, and I've already done all the easy Kerbin research; do I really have to fly to the Mun again just for that?". If I'm just a few points short of a science node, I'll go do a few grounded part tests and then ignore them in favour of more challenging aerial stuff until the issue comes up again.

As with √, once you know what you're doing it's so easy to acquire science that it isn't really much of a challenge (e.g. see Scott Manley's "First Contract in Two Missions" thing). This was already true before contracts were introduced, and you don't even need elite Manley-grade skills to take advantage of it. Just stick a refuellable lander on a lab / fuel depot orbiting the Mun, and it's trivially easy to pop down to every biome in just a few flights.

But that gets a bit tedious once you've done it a few dozen times; having a way to easily sidestep the need to chase science points while still getting to play with contracts is a good thing to me. Nerfing the science rewards on the test contracts won't make it more challenging for experienced players, it'll just make it more grindy.

[LABHOUSE]

Ok a few contracts later (four) I had 433,000 space bucks and one crash later 330,000 I did some part testing and a kun rocket after I got some science with a single stage to 300,000 m to get cash back.

[Stealth2668]

Now I'm afraid to decouple anything.

Don't want to loose cash.

I use StageRecovery mod so that I recover $ from dropped stages that land safely.

[juanml82]

In which case, you can get all the science you could want for virtually nothing. Build a basic jet plane, stick a thermometer and some goo pods on it and fly all over Kerbin collecting data from the different biomes. Also handy for performing atmospheric test contracts.

So long as you don't crash it and get it back to the KSC runway before recovery, the only expense will be a tiny fuel bill.

A lot of the part testing contracts pay very poorly in √ but make it up in science. A lot of the exploration contracts pay very well in √, but return little science.

This seems backwards, but it does make a kind of sense. If you're flying to Duna, you don't need science: you'll get plenty from running experiments while you're there. But you do need √; going to Duna is expensive. Grounded part testing contracts don't pay much, but they cost √0 to run; 100% recovery from the launchpad. OTOH, there isn't that much science available around KSC, so anyone stuck there doing ground tests could probably use the boost.

As well as providing a quick science boost for struggling newbies, I think the part testing contracts were also set up as they are in order to get around the "I'm two science points short of the next node, and I've already done all the easy Kerbin research; do I really have to fly to the Mun again just for that?". If I'm just a few points short of a science node, I'll go do a few grounded part tests and then ignore them in favour of more challenging aerial stuff until the issue comes up again.

As with √, once you know what you're doing it's so easy to acquire science that it isn't really much of a challenge (e.g. see Scott Manley's "First Contract in Two Missions" thing). This was already true before contracts were introduced, and you don't even need elite Manley-grade skills to take advantage of it. Just stick a refuellable lander on a lab / fuel depot orbiting the Mun, and it's trivially easy to pop down to every biome in just a few flights.

But that gets a bit tedious once you've done it a few dozen times; having a way to easily sidestep the need to chase science points while still getting to play with contracts is a good thing to me. Nerfing the science rewards on the test contracts won't make it more challenging for experienced players, it'll just make it more grindy.

Wanderfound, you're a very experienced player. What you describe is easy for you. It's not necessarily easy for people starting in the game:

Build a basic jet plane

Fly all over Kerbin and return to land to KSC

Build a spacestation with a mobile lab and put it around the Mun

Build a lander, hop through the biomes successfully landing on the Mun, return to Mun orbit, RV and dock with the station, clean the experiments. Rinse and repeat.

Send a tanker to refuel the station. Make sure one kerbal returns to Kerbin with the science accumulated.

[Alshain]

My "easy mode" is to put a sattelite with a thermometer in polar orbit of every planet/moon I visit and when possible, station a Kerbal there too. You can earn plenty of funds just by doing the "science from orbit" and "plant a flag on" type missions. Make sure the craft has an antenna.

[Wanderfound]

Wanderfound, you're a very experienced player. What you describe is easy for you. It's not necessarily easy for people starting in the game:

Build a basic jet plane

Fly all over Kerbin and return to land to KSC

Build a spacestation with a mobile lab and put it around the Mun

Build a lander, hop through the biomes successfully landing on the Mun, return to Mun orbit, RV and dock with the station, clean the experiments. Rinse and repeat.

Send a tanker to refuel the station. Make sure one kerbal returns to Kerbin with the science accumulated.

Which is why I qualified it with "once you know what you're doing". And this is why I always pop in to object when people criticise some of the contracts (ground tests, etc) for being "too easy". They were set up that way on purpose; the low-difficulty contracts are there to give struggling newbies a boost.

For those just learning: don't be too ambitious too early. Learn to enjoy repeated failure. Test things out on a small scale before investing in something epic. Consider using Sandbox mode for "simulations". Set up the Abort action group to kill engines, pop parachutes and decouple your capsule. Use the abort option before the rocket hits the ground. Try to build cost-efficiently. SRBs are your friend, especially when combined with thrust-limiting tweakables. Think laterally: defuel your test rockets, drive rovers into the ocean for splashdown tests, plant flags near the runway for navigation beacons, etc.

I usually don't bother returning with data, BTW. Transmission is less efficient, but it's good enough most of the time.

I know that KSP is a lot more difficult when you're starting; I left more than my share of impact craters and stranded Kerbonauts on the Mun while I was learning. My early attempts at rendezvous and docking could have been used as slapstick comedy. My first "successful" Mun landing saw the legs flex just enough to destroy the engine. The second "success" toppled over sideways just as I was about to go EVA. The "rescue" mission sent to get those guys somehow ended up out of fuel in a Kerbol orbit.

My first space station had all of its docking ports mounted backwards. I once set up for a rendezvous around Duna with perfectly matched orbits...going in opposite directions. When I first started playing with perma-death on, it took me several campaigns before I managed to keep Jeb alive for more than a couple of missions (FAR + DR + early-tier tech + attempting to reenter in large, unaerodynamic Mun landers for the recovery value = good unplanned disassembly screenshots).

The "Nintendo hard" factor is a major part of the appeal of the game; it's challenging enough to provide a real sense of accomplishment once you do get things done. My Facebook contained nothing but "I finally made it to orbit!" type posts for months. But, magically, Squad has managed to do this without turning it into an exercise in grindy frustration.

Yay Squad.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Liowen]

One thing to do is when you launch a probe mission to a planet/moon make sure it has a comms device and solar panels, if you get the contracts asking for "data from X" or "data from above X" you can send it even if it is worth 0 science. Also take things like Duna and Ike missions together, they seem not to have a time limit and also have high advances. My current career mode I have 1.3 million funds, and that is after launching three 200k+ fund pieces for my space station. Also if you are doing testing I do no more than 3 that are in the same range (height or distance), and try to launch them with missions that will be going in that general direction.

I have two right now that need a Mun escape and my plan is to do them with my Minmus mission, I also have a 4 part contract to go to Minmus so it all works out to add those experimental pieces to that craft. Set a craft with a command pod and a probe in orbit for rescue missions when you have extra funds kicking around, my plan is to have a pod at the station at all times to go grab rescues and shuttle up new crew to the station (since they have to return to Kerbin after rescue). I thought about a hitchhiker can but realized that the rescue missions have a date hat terminates the contract, so I will do lander can docked to my station to go pick them up.

[LABHOUSE]

Everyone thinks I'm a noob... I'm just a noob to carreer. Can someone close this please no more posts.

Edited September 1, 2014 by LABHOUSE

[capi3101]

Glad to hear you were able to pull things out, LABHOUSE; just wanted to throw that out there before an admin locked the thread.