Interact with terrain scatters (for SCIENCE!)

[pandaman]

I have terrain scatter turned off, partly to save my processor power a little, but mainly as it just seems wrong to have huge boulders dotted around that aren't actually there.

[lajoswinkler]

But it looks nice and makes you practice precision landing.

[r4pt0r]

I for one wish tehy had collision meshes. would make rovering much more exciting.

[KrazyKrl]

Yes, terrain scatters need collision meshes. Hopefully some time after the U5 update comes out, terrain scatters will get their comeuppance.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Surface sample collection should be in a different pool, depending on the type of terrain scatter, and its biome. I.e. a rock in a crater is not a rock in the flats, and the rock is not part of the crater science pool either.

[sumghai]

Interacting with randomly-generated terrain scatters could tie in very nicely with my old idea for determining the composition of a planet's soil, atmosphere and/or ocean through sample collection and statistical analysis - the more samples collected, the more accurate the composition pie chart would become.

As may have been hinted by Squad in certain places, a resource system featuring sample collection / analysis / return as well as mining / processing / storage has been suggested for an as-yet undetermined future release of KSP. This would be an additional justification / goal for players to send spacecraft to other planets/moons (in addition to flying Jeb and his flag there, of course ) - the ability to do real science.

While the actual implementation is still quite far off in the horizon, I figured I'd start a thread anyway detailing some of my ideas and musings, which could be potentially applicable to both the stock game and mods such as Kethane, Extraplanetary Space Centers and tek Industries Science.

What Squad has WIP'ed so far...

(Note that these may not necessarily represent the what Squad will ultimately implement - I've simply relinked them from the last known reddit thread for your viewing convenience)

• Spacecraft-mounted scanners (Long range directional, Short range omnidirectional)
  
• Drills (for acquiring Solids and Liquids)
  
• Storage containers
  
• Various refiners (1, 2) / chemical processors (Small, Medium and Large)
  
• A tentative list of resources, (prototype) resources map for each planet and a (now-outdated) resources flow chart describing how said resources would be turned into spaceflight consumables such as fuel and life support - it has been speculated by the reddit thread author that Squad is going to simplify the processors to be able to handle a variety of resources (rather than overspecializing by having one dedicated processor per resource).
  

My own musings...

Initial Surveying / Sampling

• At the very beginning of a new savegame, players would immediately be able to view Kerbin's resource map for its surface, oceans and atmosphere, without needing to do any additional prospecting / science (I presume Kerbals would already know their home planet's composition well enough). Conversely, the resource map for other planets would initially be blank.
  
• The scanner array(s) would be used to provide very rough surveys of other planets and moons from orbit - they would probably detect the presence of certain resources and locations where they are generally found, but little about their actual quantity / proportion / purity.
  
• Ground-based robotic or crewed missions would be required to obtain better data through sample collection / statistical analysis missions
  
  • Units of rock, liquid and gas samples would be collected by Kerbals on EVA or dedicated robotic arms
    
    • Rock samples provide data for surface makeup
      
    • Liquid samples provide data for ocean makeup (or additionally, underground crude oil-like substances such as the namesake of the Kethane mod)
      
    • Gas samples provide data for atmospheric makeup
      

    [*]Each sample obtained would contain differing proportions of selected substances found on that planet/moon

    • The rationale for this is that one does not simply have samples purely made up of whatever
      
    • Sample #005 may contain 45% Metaxium / 10% Blutonium / 30% Alium / 14% Kerbon / 1% UNKNOWN SUBSTANCE 06
      
    • Sample #021 may contain 67% Metaxium / 30% Zanotite / 3% UNKNOWN SUBSTANCE 02
      

    [*]The more samples one gathers, the more accurate the final resource map for that planet would be

    [*]"Known" resources are those that are already also found on Kerbin - it is enough to simply identify them and the proportion present in each sample

    [*]"Unknown" or "Rare" resources are those that are not found on Kerbin - a sample return mission is required so that Kerbal scientists back home can properly study it

    • Once sample(s) containing unknown substance(s) is/are successfully returned, new resource names are automatically added to the resource map list
      
    • e.g. UNKNOWN SUBSTANCE 06 will automatically be renamed to Jebedynium, for instance
      

...And how to potentially implement them (from a code perspective)

Initial Surveying / Sampling

• The resources map proportions for each planet and moon are actually predetermined and hard-coded into KSP itself.
  
• A proposed resources.cfg for each savegame would contain:
  
  • An initial seed for the random deposits location/quantity generation (sharing seeds results in identical deposit locations)
    
  • Resource names and proportions available on each planet / moon (initially blank - populated through gameplay)
    
  • Deposit locations / purity (initially blank - populated through gameplay)
    

  [*]When players start with simple orbital scans of various planets and moons, the persistence file is updated to store the names of the resources found on said planet/moon, along with a quantity of 0%

  • This would be displayed in-game as "present" i.e. Kerbon - present
    

  [*]When players collect physical rock/liquid/gas samples:

  • The presence and proportions of resources are NOT stored on a per-sample basis (massive data overhead!)
    
  • Rather, Kerbals on EVA and robot samplers would simply have a incremented "SampleCount" up to their "MaxSampleCapacity"
    

  [*]When these samples are offloaded into analysis parts:

  • The code simply loops through the the number of samples deposited
    
  • For each sample/loop iteration, dummy variables are used to temporary hold resource names and quantities
    
  • The composition of each sample is randomly generated, but strongly determined by the hard-coded proportions for each planet
    
    • e.g. Assume Duna is hard coded to have 75% Metaxium on its surface
      
    • Therefore any given rock sample is more likely to mostly contain Metaxium
      
    • The actual quantity of Metaxium returned as outpost from any particular sample may actually be anywhere between, say 25% to 50%
      

    [*]The results for each sample are averaged out and written back to resources.cfg map, as the "actual" resources map proportion for each planet/moon

    • i.e. only the final running average for the whole planet/moon is stored
      

    [*]The more samples one collects, the closer the savegame's data tends towards the hard-coded ideal values

  [*]Example:

  • At the start of the savegame, nothing is known about the Mun's composition
    
  • Internally in KSP, the Mun may have hardcoded resource proportions of 10% A, 20% B, 30% C and 40% D
    
  • When a player scans the Mun, resources A, B, C and D will be detected but their quantities will be unknown
    
    • i.e. A - present, B - present, C - present, D - present
      

    [*]When a player analyses their first rock sample, the random number generator may assign said sample as having 70% A, 20% B and 10% D

    • Mun Resources map is now updated to A - 70%, B - 20%, C - present, D - 10%
      
    • Obviously this is grossly inaccurate compared to the overall hardcoded figure, but remember that we've only taken one sample
      

    [*]By rock sample #025, the figures might get averaged out to:

    • A - 12%, B - 18%, C - 33%, D - 37%
      
    • Basically, the more samples we take, the closer we tend towards the "ideal" hardcoded proportions
      

Edited June 28, 2015 by sumghai
Removed discussion of ISRU as a simplified version is now part of the stock game

[waterlubber]

Once this framework is implemented, easter eggs and such could have special science and even the Magic Boulder, when it does get re-added (right, Squad?!) will have some interesting stuff, too. It can be a simple coordinate check with the game.

[Feradose]

The whole kerbin systen needs to get nerfed in science. And the whole KSP needs better, more fun-ish science gathering. I dont know still how this science system (temperature from Mun surface... pressure from Eve oceans.. a bit of Jool gas.. here, have your Rapier and RTG.) works, but this science gathering would make the game 100% more livelier on every planet. I love this! Gives my giant science tanks a purpose.

Maybe the scatter should be destroyable too? I would love to just move on them and smash them to bits with the tracks I have.

It wouldnt be that hard, X amount of kinetic energy (not mass, not velocity) applied should make them "sink and disappear" like the building models.

[nikokespprfan]

If you were to make the place that has the certain scatter an area like the survey area's, you could also maybe implement getting science from experiments such as drilling near / sampling said scatter-object etc.

[Whirligig Girl]

Yes please! THis idea is great!

[Tw1]

My favourite thread on this from the past.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/120014-Procedurally-generate-surface-objects-of-scientific-interest

Same basic idea, which I expanded on im tje second post.

The idea was not only having the points of interest, but also using the science instruments to track them down.

This will bring rover trips to life.

This sort of science like this would be always available, available everywhere on each planet, and wouldn't be a one-off thing.

[Rath]

I suggest to have the rate things like 1 per square kilometer maximum

[John FX]

I remember the first time I drove through a rock.

I thought "That`s not right"

I support solid scatters with variations that give moar science too.

[Nemeko]

I think this mod have meshes for scatter objects: 

But i would like interactives rocks to colect (With the KIS module maybe) and convert in cience. I thought if is posible spawn mini asteroids in the surface, if the scatter objects of the planets are not compatible whit this. And there are not drain performance of puting 5 to 10 objects in the surface (i believe)

[TheDestroyer111]

On 8/28/2014 at 7:25 PM, peadar1987 said:

It also makes rovers more of a useful thing, as you can cover more ground more quickly, enhancing your search.

Did you just say something about making rovers useful in career mode for something more than surface base attachment? I am absolutely FOR this idea, this is amazing!