[0.24.2] More Fuel Types (aka. NEARFuels) - VER 1.3

[bs1110101]

I sorta like the idea of that, but having enough tanks and engines that you have a good selection takes up too much ram. I say make a version where you can use all the parts in any configuration.

[saabstory88]

I sorta like the idea of that, but having enough tanks and engines that you have a good selection takes up too much ram. I say make a version where you can use all the parts in any configuration.

If you are playing near stock, with only KW, and this Mod, you don't need texture compression for the game to run. This still has plenty of variety to do all sorts of challenging missions. I do all of my testing on OSX which I believe (I could be wrong) has the highest unity overhead. If you are getting crashes, I would be useful to know if is a memory leak, or something breaking either in my code, or with others. If you could post you log to the dev thread I maybe be able to help you.

[nebuchadnezzar]

Does this work with modular fuel tanks?

[saabstory88]

Does this work with modular fuel tanks?

Do you mean Firespitter FSfuelSwitch, or Modular Fuels? Modular fuels has been rolled into Real Fuels, and is obsolete.

See: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52780-Modular-Fuel-System-Continued

So no, this does not work with RealFuels, as this is sort of meant to be Real Fuels Lite. Having two would be redundant.

As to the FSFuelSwitch issues... I am working on B9 with regular config switching as an interim, but I will be deploying a .dll, maybe in the next week or two, to do further FSfuelSwitch operations automatically.

[nebuchadnezzar]

Do you mean Firespitter FSfuelSwitch, or Modular Fuels? Modular fuels has been rolled into Real Fuels, and is obsolete.

No, I'm talking about MFT (Modular Fuel Tanks) After some testing is seems that MFT is only showing the default fuels in it's GUI. An updated TANK definition file will fix that though. I can probably get one figured out soon as I really like the idea of your mod but I want the flexibility to hook into the MFT tank system. The only problem with that is it won't also add the ModuleCryotank that you're adding to the tanks.

[saabstory88]

No, I'm talking about MFT (Modular Fuel Tanks) After some testing is seems that MFT is only showing the default fuels in it's GUI. An updated TANK definition file will fix that though. I can probably get one figured out soon as I really like the idea of your mod but I want the flexibility to hook into the MFT tank system. The only problem with that is it won't also add the ModuleCryotank that you're adding to the tanks.

Thank you for brining this to my attention. I am going to work through the B9 pack first, then hopefully I can make this the next priority. There is absolutely a way in Module manager, to run a routine after MFT runs, which searches for all MFT tanks, and adds the Cryogen module. The B9 pack is taking longer than expected, but maybe by the weekend, I can have a fix for this issue.

Again, thank for letting me know, I didn't realize MFT had been forked from RealFuels.

[saabstory88]

No, I'm talking about MFT (Modular Fuel Tanks) After some testing is seems that MFT is only showing the default fuels in it's GUI. An updated TANK definition file will fix that though. I can probably get one figured out soon as I really like the idea of your mod but I want the flexibility to hook into the MFT tank system. The only problem with that is it won't also add the ModuleCryotank that you're adding to the tanks.

The other thing you can do, for the moment, is to use the Procedural Fuel tanks to create whatever tanks your should desire.

[NathanKell]

Again, thank for letting me know, I didn't realize MFT had been forked from RealFuels.

Technically they were *both* forked from Modular Fuel Systems. That's still the name of the shared repo RF and MFT use.

[ozraven]

I believe there's a small bug in the ModuleCryotank code: Once refrigeration is active, it will remain active even if the requested ElectricCharge cannot be fulfilled - which is OK, so that once power is restored it resumes operation, but it doesn't switch over to boiling off fuel.

[saabstory88]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I am still desperately trying to squash the last of the B9 compatibility bugs, but I think this merits an immediate update. I will try to get a version out to fix this soon. Otherwise, I am glad for the constructive feedback!

[saabstory88]

I believe there's a small bug in the ModuleCryotank code: Once refrigeration is active, it will remain active even if the requested ElectricCharge cannot be fulfilled - which is OK, so that once power is restored it resumes operation, but it doesn't switch over to boiling off fuel.

Fixed and updated to Kerbalstuff. Thanks for catching that!

[p1t1o]

Heyho,

I very much like the look of this mod, I use RF at the mo but have been wanting a slightly simplified version, because I generally end up just using the default fuels, sometimes switching to LH2/LOx for the mass/Isp advantages.

The only thing that concerns me is, in MF and RF you can adjust the content of your tanks (say if you want one just to be half-full, for example) - can this functionality be added to nearfuels? (Or does it already exist?)

Cheers!

[saabstory88]

Heyho,

I very much like the look of this mod, I use RF at the mo but have been wanting a slightly simplified version, because I generally end up just using the default fuels, sometimes switching to LH2/LOx for the mass/Isp advantages.

The only thing that concerns me is, in MF and RF you can adjust the content of your tanks (say if you want one just to be half-full, for example) - can this functionality be added to nearfuels? (Or does it already exist?)

Cheers!

This mod uses procedural parts in leu of Modular Fuel Tanks. You can swap out tank contents, and they are fully tweakable! Stock and mod parts, which are not procedural, are still tweakable, but for career purposes, are limited to one kind of fuel.

[TranceaddicT]

saabstory,

I'm using BobCatind Soviet pack (along with about 70+ others including MFT). I have a ready built SoyuzU standing by in my KCT VAB Storage for rescue missions (yeah, I know they aren't timed, but added realism and all....). Before NearFuels, this thing could get to Mun; Stage9 TWR was 1.21 at launch. Now, it can't get off the pad; with S9 TWR at 0.69.

Also, there are now two fuel sets - K/LOx (NF) and LF/LOx - listed for the part.

I know there is something I'm not understanding and am doing incorrectly. Could you enlighten me?

[saabstory88]

saabstory,

I'm using BobCatind Soviet pack (along with about 70+ others including MFT). I have a ready built SoyuzU standing by in my KCT VAB Storage for rescue missions (yeah, I know they aren't timed, but added realism and all....). Before NearFuels, this thing could get to Mun; Stage9 TWR was 1.21 at launch. Now, it can't get off the pad; with S9 TWR at 0.69.

Also, there are now two fuel sets - K/LOx (NF) and LF/LOx - listed for the part.

I know there is something I'm not understanding and am doing incorrectly. Could you enlighten me?

I will attempt to look into this. In the mean time, could you post a screenshot of this fuel type duplication, as well as your log file? This would help me to sort this out much more quickly.

[Stage]

Hey!

Nice to see an alternative to RealFuels!

I've found a small bug: your "Vernor Engine Kerosene" needs LqdMethane instead of Kerosene.

What I'm not sure about: in my game stock-RCS isn't affected by your mod. Maybe a conflict, maybe a problem with the stock RCS module.

I've tinkered a little with your mod to make it compatible with my KSP install wrotesome MM patches, one of those is a working patch for MultiMode engines:

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[MultiModeEngine]]:AFTER[cryostat]{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
        {
            @name = Kerosene
        }
        @PROPELLANT[Oxidizer]
        {
            @name = LiquidO2
         @ratio = 3
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX],1
    {
        @PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
        {
            @name = Kerosene
        }
        @PROPELLANT[Oxidizer]
        {
            @name = LiquidO2
         @ratio = 3
        }
    }
}

I use some mods adding multimode engines where both stages use LFO, that's why both engines have patches for Oxidizer.

Works for B9 engines aswell

@PART[B9_Engine_SABRE_S]:BEFORE[cryostat]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
        {
            @name = LqdMethane
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX],1
    {
        @PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel]
        {
              @name = LqdMethane
        }
        @PROPELLANT[Oxidizer]
        {
            @name = LiquidO2
         @ratio = 4
        }
    }
}

I use the :BEFORE tag so NEARFuels won't change the first engine (My SABRE engines use LqdMethane for compatability reasons).

Some mods use ModuleRCSFX instead of stock ModuleRCS. It would be great if you could made that compatible aswell

Regards,

Stage

[saabstory88]

Hey!

Nice to see an alternative to RealFuels!

I've found a small bug: your "Vernor Engine Kerosene" needs LqdMethane instead of Kerosene.

What I'm not sure about: in my game stock-RCS isn't affected by your mod. Maybe a conflict, maybe a problem with the stock RCS module.

I've tinkered a little with your mod to make it compatible with my KSP install wrotesome MM patches, one of those is a working patch for MultiMode engines:

I use the :BEFORE tag so NEARFuels won't change the first engine (My SABRE engines use LqdMethane for compatability reasons).

Some mods use ModuleRCSFX instead of stock ModuleRCS. It would be great if you could made that compatible aswell

Regards,

Stage

@MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX],1

That was the line I was looking for! Thank you very much sir, I will roll these changes in tonight! I'll take another look at the RCS system, I have noticed that It has broken a few third party RCS modules, but not most of them.

[S1gmoid]

Exactly what I'm looking for! Is it being maintained?

[Cleric2145]

Can I assume NEARFuels stands for "Not Exactly A Real Fuel?" :3

[Felbourn]

I think the original post needs a section to compare and contrast the differences between this and RealFuels and ModularFuels since they all do the same things. Like how NEAR was made to be a lighter weight FAR, is that the idea here? NEARFuels is lighter weight RealFuels?

[saabstory88]

I think the original post needs a section to compare and contrast the differences between this and RealFuels and ModularFuels since they all do the same things. Like how NEAR was made to be a lighter weight FAR, is that the idea here? NEARFuels is lighter weight RealFuels?

Have some time again to continue working on this. Real life has completely taken over for the past month or so (work related). I finally have a free weekend this weekend, so I'm going to try to get back on the horse with this.

[Blowout]

Why are my lower stage engines pulling 4 times as much LOX as they do LH2?

This results in humongous LOX tanks feeding tiny little LH2 tanks... ditto on all the other fuels for that matter...

[saabstory88]

Why are my lower stage engines pulling 4 times as much LOX as they do LH2?

This results in humongous LOX tanks feeding tiny little LH2 tanks... ditto on all the other fuels for that matter...

This is because of the mix ratio of the engines. This is not a bug.

[Starman4308]

Why are my lower stage engines pulling 4 times as much LOX as they do LH2?

This results in humongous LOX tanks feeding tiny little LH2 tanks... ditto on all the other fuels for that matter...

That is because LH2 is a very low-density fuel, at only 0.07 g/mL, compared to 0.8-1.0 g/mL for RP-1 (kerosene). If you look at the Saturn V, the LH2 tanks were gigantic compared to the LOX tanks. It is still very mass-efficient, but the size of the tanks cuts into that a bit, as you need more mass of fuel tank to carry the same mass of propellant.

It's part of why RP-1 (kerosene)/LOX is preferred for most first stages; the much greater density of RP-1 means a smaller volume, which makes for easier engineering, and efficiency does not matter as much for your first stage.

[Blowout]

This is because of the mix ratio of the engines. This is not a bug.

I did see in the config file that engines are drawing 4 times as much LOX as they do LH2, the question... why do they do that?

It makes the tank configurations very unrealistic.

That is because LH2 is a very low-density fuel, at only 0.07 g/mL, compared to 0.8-1.0 g/mL for RP-1 (kerosene). If you look at the Saturn V, the LH2 tanks were gigantic compared to the LOX tanks. It is still very mass-efficient, but the size of the tanks cuts into that a bit, as you need more mass of fuel tank to carry the same mass of propellant.

It's part of why RP-1 (kerosene)/LOX is preferred for most first stages; the much greater density of RP-1 means a smaller volume, which makes for easier engineering, and efficiency does not matter as much for your first stage.

No... that's not what's going on. Read my post again.