Idea - Engine exhaust with geometry - february update

[Mein_Gott]

Hello

Since always Ive been looking for mods that improve 'feel' of realism in KSP, but in terms of visual effects. HotRockets by Nazari based on Sarbian's SmokeScreen is a must have for me, especially with FPSLacker's expanding plume configs - I just want things to look - and sound - just like in videos and photos.

And Ive been thinking, what is there that needs to be done, so that KSP liquid engine effects look even more realistic. So here is my idea, as in topic - engine exhaust fire made of geometry, rather than particles (fire only, smoke of course still particles )

I imagine this requires major effort. And so end my capacities. Im unfamilliar with Unity, thats pretty crucial. Im unskilled with C#, not to mention programming skills to write geometry animation plugin - and that is obvious because exhaust is bell-shape expanding with magnitude depending on distance from the top (engine nozzle).

The idea is trivial - bell mesh mapped with distorted colour gradient, transparency gradient becoming invisible toward bell's "skirt" (you would say alpha, probbably?) and lastly falloff: bell becoming transparent at certain angles of view (90 degrees, for edge, and 0, for nifftyness). Not to mention full emisive. Geometry shown below is approx 500 faces per engine, but im sure it can be cut to 200 without any visual losses.

Are those things even possible to implement in the game? Im layman here. But jet engines would surely benefit from this as well.

I cant possibly demand or expect anyone to undertake the thing as it would be some work to do, but I would be deeply pleased if someone discussed the idea with me.

Thank you for your time

Animation preview: http://a.pomf.se/bbmbic.webm

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Edited February 28, 2015 by Mein_Gott
update - animation

[Dodecadevin]

I have no skill or suggestions to add, but let me just say now that engine plume/flare effects are possible i am DYING to see them implemented. My launches feel so ugly right now. I hope you can get something working

[MockKnizzle]

Even the mockups you've shown here are miles better than the particles we have in-game. I would be all over this mod if it were implemented.

[NathanKell]

This looks very interesting indeed!

[trekkie_]

you're talking about an effect you're using a shader for and possibly other things going on like ray tracing. these may be ok for CAD rendering, but that often doesn't require dozens of frames to be drawn per second.

but there may be some kind of volumetric fires already out there for unity.

http://webgl-fire.appspot.com/html/fire.html

volumetric shader for unity with self illumination

torch shader for unity

http://vimeo.com/85930044

fire particle with UV distortion

really the effect you're looking for is best achieved with shaders and particles.

you can see all the fire effects they have for unity here.

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/search/fire%20particle

but people that make these types of effects typically are selling them for money on the asset store.

if you could make the existing particle effects fit to the bounds of those bell shapes, then you'd get somewhat of the effect you're looking for.

keep in mind we're talking about unity here, not the cryengine.

but technically for some engines the flame doesn't have to really 'move'. a jet engine can be basically no different than a stove burner, just a still blue flame, transparent, with a clear outline and boundary. you could somewhat mimic that effect with an emissive transparent model that also has a point light for illumination. then you'd need to have the model shrink and grow and stretch with throttle, along with the point light dimming with throttle and the brightness of emissive changing with throttle as well. you could even add a transparent texture that adds distortions by the texture itself looping the whole model at X speed. with the right texture moving fast enough you could give off a neat effect that looks like a transparent plume with a clear outline. you could even use a series of fitted copies of the model as layers to create a gradient between the boundaries. it would just be very tedious.

Edited September 15, 2014 by trekkie_

[John FX]

If the shape of the `bell` could change depending on the atmospheric pressure that would be really cool.

[sarbian]

kerbtrek : the main problem is what is doable in pure code in Unity is not the same as what is doable in Unity interface when you make your own game.

The prime example is the Unity Shuriken particle system. It's awesome and full of great stuff that would make our exhaust look far better than anything we can do in stock (or with SmokeScreen) atm. Shuriken let you do volumetric particles and that's way better than the flat snowflake I use in SmokeScreen. But you can't use 95% of Shuriken features from pure code, and it's only configurable from Unity Editor UI

Mein_Gott : Yes, it should be implementable. It would work better with a shader to handle the gradient and animate it a bit too. I am interested to add something like that in SmokeScreen but I m not sure it's a good idea to launch myself in yet an other project...

John FX : it's what some modders already do with SmokeScreen

[Mein_Gott]

Thank you all for kind advices and for words of approval.

Kerbtrek, I was sceptical myself about that angle-of-view shader, I understand there are things meant to be used in a single rendered frame, and things for real-time use in games. So as you said, I will test with other methods. Afterall, my point is to avoid particles completly (few of them look bad, plenty - impact system performance)

Sarbian, naturally animation is crucial, I couldnt imagine this to be just static, pretty coloured shape

John FX, thats exactly what I was thinking, and so there are two plumes in the pictures - for low and high atmo pressure

I will try to reduce shaders complexity, maybe perform animation attempts, and present results to you, if anyone is interested.

Thank you for your concern

Edited September 15, 2014 by Mein_Gott

[Red Iron Crown]

I would love bigger/wider exhaust plumes. Something like this:

[Mein_Gott]

Its just a matter of scaling, but that is the effect Im aiming at

But that case made me think: cluster engines are going to be ugly with this approach, with overlapping semi-transparent plumes

[nli2work]

I think smokeScreen would handle this quite well. it has settings to adjust particle size, emission rate, growth rate, velocity, based on speed, altitude, air pressure, air temperature, etc.

[NecroBones]

If the shape of the `bell` could change depending on the atmospheric pressure that would be really cool.

Oh heck yes! I would love to see dynamic exhaust plumes based on atmospheric pressure, or lack thereof. That would be very drool-worthy.

[sarbian]

As nli2work said SmokeScreen already allow for all those, but nearly no one use them in their mods atm.

ferram4/NathanKell/r4m0n use it for the part they used for the kerbal cup. And the result is quite nice

[nli2work]

As nli2work said SmokeScreen already allow for all those, but nearly no one use them in their mods atm.

ferram4/NathanKell/r4m0n use it for the part they used for the kerbal cup. And the result is quite nice

I do plan on using it soon The long list of settings is a bit daunting to look at at first to be honest.

[Mein_Gott]

So certain time ago I posted the idea. Sorry for the long pause (as the bear said), now Id like to show you how it looks stripped of some transparency effects (angle of viewing direction based, becaused that seemed a little too elaborate for the start).

It is made of 180 squares (360 tris), static color gradient and moving opacity noise, and geometry scaling of course.

http://a.pomf.se/bbmbic.webm

maybe it will inspire someone with modding and coding skills

yes, it can be bigger/faster/expanding, this is just an example

(PS it was meant to vaguely ressemble hydrogen rocket - does it?)

(PPS id love to know how to embed webms, if possible )