I finally decided to play on Career Mode for the first time in a long while...

[MarvinKitFox]

... Hard-to-acquire science.

Sounds like a fun mod! Where did you download it, as the stock system makes science so ludicrously over-common that it becomes pointless.

Good grief, the Manley Scott managed to max out the tech tree in two launches.

I'm not that good, it takes me 4, possibly 5.

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Translation:

Its not that hard, if you plan well and read up a bit about where to go get science in the first place.

Translation of Translation:

Get pilot reports for each of: low air, high air, high space.

Get pilot reports for surface, and for low space, with a separate report available for each and every biome.

Ditto for every other sensor you can lay your hands on. Temperature, Air pressure, Goo, Science jr, etc.

There is a LOT of science out there.

Translation of translation of translation.

First mission: Capsule-only on launchpad. Get report. climb out, dont drop. Get eva report. Store report, climb down. Get eva on ground, get surface sample.

Second mission: exact same on runway. Also walk off runway, get eva and surface for space center. now do a bunny-hop of 100m, parachute down.

By this point, you have spent zero funds, and have enough science to reach orbit. (but not reenter just yet)

[Monthar]

Launchpad, runway, KSC, shores, water, grasslands. All Biomes within walking distance. Get as much from those as you can for a free science boost.

'Landed' test contracts can also be a very cheap and easy source of science. Remove all fuel from the engine, activate it on the launchpad and recover for a full refund.

You don't even need to remove the fuel, just set the throttle to 0.

Edit:

Here's my Newbie Orbiter design. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ga9249lbnrem4bo/Newbie%20Orbitor.craft?dl=0

This ship file can be used with a brand new career in a pure stock install. It has a total of 20 parts and to help with controlling the ship during launch the SRBs have their throttle limited to 60%. With this design I was able to achieve and circularize an equatorial orbit of about 75km with more than enough delta-v for the de-orbit burn. I did successfully splashdown with this ship. The command module did brake off when it fell over in the water, but nothing was destroyed. It doesn't have an antenna, because I wasn't planning to transmit anything back.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Monthar

[Tex_NL]

You don't even need to remove the fuel, just set the throttle to 0.

That's a bit useless when testing solid boosters.

But you're correct. To be more precise you don't even need to add a fuel tank.

[Monthar]

For SRB's just flip them over and put them on the top of the command module. Then when you fire them they're thrusting your command module into the ground. You can even recover the vessel while they're still firing to get back most of the money (depending on how quickly you hit the recover button) for the solid fuel too. So just hover the mouse over the recover button and hit the space bar to fire them off and immediately click the recover button. I just tested this.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Sounds like a fun mod! Where did you download it, as the stock system makes science so ludicrously over-common that it becomes pointless.

Good grief, the Manley Scott managed to max out the tech tree in two launches.

I'm not that good, it takes me 4, possibly 5.

Read my user title. I'm a KSP noob, so it should be expected that I would be bad at something easy.

Translation:

Its not that hard, if you plan well and read up a bit about where to go get science in the first place.

Translation of Translation:

Get pilot reports for each of: low air, high air, high space.

Get pilot reports for surface, and for low space, with a separate report available for each and every biome.

Ditto for every other sensor you can lay your hands on. Temperature, Air pressure, Goo, Science jr, etc.

There is a LOT of science out there.

... *facepalms* I remembered about doing that with Surface Samples and EVA/Crew reports, but forgot about the Goo and Science Jr.! Thanks for reminding me.

Translation of translation of translation.

First mission: Capsule-only on launchpad. Get report. climb out, dont drop. Get eva report. Store report, climb down. Get eva on ground, get surface sample.

Second mission: exact same on runway. Also walk off runway, get eva and surface for space center. now do a bunny-hop of 100m, parachute down.

By this point, you have spent zero funds, and have enough science to reach orbit. (but not reenter just yet)

Ah, being on the Capsule ladder counts as the Kerbal being on low air? Huh.

Anyway, thanks.

You don't even need to remove the fuel, just set the throttle to 0.

Edit:

Here's my Newbie Orbiter design. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ga9249lbnrem4bo/Newbie%20Orbitor.craft?dl=0

This ship file can be used with a brand new career in a pure stock install. It has a total of 20 parts and to help with controlling the ship during launch the SRBs have their throttle limited to 60%. With this design I was able to achieve and circularize an equatorial orbit of about 75km with more than enough delta-v for the de-orbit burn. I did successfully splashdown with this ship. The command module did brake off when it fell over in the water, but nothing was destroyed. It doesn't have an antenna, because I wasn't planning to transmit anything back.

Thanks! I hope I can handle it.

That's a bit useless when testing solid boosters.

But you're correct. To be more precise you don't even need to add a fuel tank.

...this is defying the current bounds of Kerbal sanity(which is alterady pretty wide). Oh well, I guess I'll just have to assume that Kerbals want to see if the engine blows up when active.

For SRB's just flip them over and put them on the top of the command module. Then when you fire them they're thrusting your command module into the ground. You can even recover the vessel while they're still firing to get back most of the money (depending on how quickly you hit the recover button) for the solid fuel too. So just hover the mouse over the recover button and hit the space bar to fire them off and immediately click the recover button. I just tested this.

I did something similar, but kept them radially attached and added very little fuel to them. Although, since there were four of them, I think I wasted more fuel than I expected, considering how each of them had 85 units.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Commissioner Tadpole

[Eric S]

Ah, being on the Capsule ladder counts as the Kerbal being on low air? Huh.

As does doing the EVA report while the kerbal is jumping. It apparently doesn't take ANY altitude, just not be standing on the ground.

[Superfluous J]

Once you've "barely gotten to orbit" the very next goal IS Mun.

Here is a ship I built with only 5 tech nodes unlocked. 187 science unlocked the only tier 2 node (with goo containers), the bottom node on tier 3, the bottom node on tier 4, and the middle node on tier 5. Then I went to Gilly.

If you copy this ship, you should have no problem orbiting Mun and landing on Minmus (not to mention going to Gilly). Orbit Mun and Minmus polar and get all the EVA reports over biomes you can.

I suggest installing ScienceAlert. It's no shame to be bored jumping out of your ship every 3 seconds to see if you're in a new biome.

Gilpollo 1, start of launch

EDIT:

As you're new, I suggest you watch the whole thing, and maybe even Kerpollo 1 as well. It shows a lot of tricks on how to get early science.

Edited September 14, 2014 by 5thHorseman

[Commissioner Tadpole]

As does doing the EVA report while the kerbal is jumping. It apparently doesn't take ANY altitude, just not be standing on the ground.

I tried to make the EVA report while he was jumping, but the timing had to be very precise, and precision is one of my many weaknesses.

Once you've "barely gotten to orbit" the very next goal IS Mun.

Here is a ship I built with only 5 tech nodes unlocked. 187 science unlocked the only tier 2 node (with goo containers), the bottom node on tier 3, the bottom node on tier 4, and the middle node on tier 5. Then I went to Gilly.

If you copy this ship, you should have no problem orbiting Mun and landing on Minmus (not to mention going to Gilly). Orbit Mun and Minmus polar and get all the EVA reports over biomes you can.

I suggest installing ScienceAlert. It's no shame to be bored jumping out of your ship every 3 seconds to see if you're in a new biome.

Gilpollo 1, start of launch

EDIT:

As you're new, I suggest you watch the whole thing, and maybe even Kerpollo 1 as well. It shows a lot of tricks on how to get early science.

Unfortunately I cannot watch videos because my internet is pretty bad. In fact, it's odd how I can access several forums but not videos even at 144p.

[Eric S]

I tried to make the EVA report while he was jumping, but the timing had to be very precise, and precision is one of my many weaknesses.

It helps to pull up the menu before you jump, and it still isn't trivial on higher-G planets. Works great on Minmus, and not bad on the Mun, however.

[Superfluous J]

Unfortunately I cannot watch videos because my internet is pretty bad. In fact, it's odd how I can access several forums but not videos even at 144p.

I know how that goes. I spend a lot of time tethered to a cell phone in an area with poor cell reception.

Here's a screen grab of the ship on the launch pad, showing the staging and Kerbal Engineer stats (in atmo) of the ship's dV. You should be able to make a ship very close to if not exactly like this one.

It has so may Jr's and Goos because I wanted to get all the possible science from LKO to landed on Gilly, including Sun and Eve orbits. Once I took the readings I hopped out, removed them, then disconnected them from the ship when I could do so and keep symmetry around my engines.

[Frank327]

Ok, so a few quick tips to make nice spaceships on low tech:

1. Use winglets for steering during takeoff all the way to the upper atmosphere. That way you don't need reaction wheels.

2. Keep your payload small, one science jr. and two goo canisters is good enough for your first moon landing.

3. Don't vertically stack the same engines. The advantage you get is really minimal.

4. Use those radial decouplers often. They're the most important ingredient for getting lots of dV. One nice trick for a lander is to have the landing gear and science stuff on the sides and ditch those (after collecting the data with EVA) when you return to kerbin.

5. You don't need solar panels for munar missions, 4 batteries should be enough.

6. If in doubt, add boosters.

7. Realize how good the lv 909 is. If you have 4 tons of fuel and minimal extra stuff including an lv909, you can get from low kerbin orbit to landing on either mun or minmus and getting back to kerbin.

8. Don't go too fast in the first 10km. If you've got a TWR of higher than 2 you need to be able to throttle back to save fuel. You can see when you're going faster than is efficient when there's clouds shooting alongide your rocket.

I know you were doing several of these already, but other people might also look here for advice so I just included the most important stuff.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Frank327

[Commissioner Tadpole]

I know how that goes. I spend a lot of time tethered to a cell phone in an area with poor cell reception.

Here's a screen grab of the ship on the launch pad, showing the staging and Kerbal Engineer stats (in atmo) of the ship's dV. You should be able to make a ship very close to if not exactly like this one.

http://pulpaudio.com/ksp/gilpollo.png

It has so may Jr's and Goos because I wanted to get all the possible science from LKO to landed on Gilly, including Sun and Eve orbits. Once I took the readings I hopped out, removed them, then disconnected them from the ship when I could do so and keep symmetry around my engines.

Thanks! Sounds like it will be a challenging ride, though - but hey, we learn from challenges!

Ok, so a few quick tips to make nice spaceships on low tech:

1. Use winglets for steering during takeoff all the way to the upper atmosphere. That way you don't need reaction wheels.

2. Keep your payload small, one science jr. and two goo canisters is good enough for your first moon landing.

3. Don't vertically stack the same engines. The advantage you get is really minimal.

4. Use those radial decouplers often. They're the most important ingredient for getting lots of dV. One nice trick for a lander is to have the landing gear and science stuff on the sides and ditch those (after collecting the data with EVA) when you return to kerbin.

5. You don't need solar panels for munar missions, 4 batteries should be enough.

6. If in doubt, add boosters.

7. Realize how good the lv 909 is. If you have 4 tons of fuel and minimal extra stuff including an lv909, you can get from low kerbin orbit to landing on either mun or minmus and getting back to kerbin.

8. Don't go too fast in the first 10km. If you've got a TWR of higher than 2 you need to be able to throttle back to save fuel. You can see when you're going faster than is efficient when there's clouds shooting alongide your rocket.

I know you were doing several of these already, but other people might also look here for advice so I just included the most important stuff.

Thanks for the tips, I'll make good use of them. Have some rep, as well.

[O-Doc]

When I posted I didn't realise how much of a n00b you are given that you've got alot of activity on these forums. The reason you are having trouble controlling your rocket is because in the lower tier science the only real control you get over your rocket is through gimballing engines. The low tier gimballed engine is the LV-T45. Do not use the LV-T30 because it has no gimballing. If you are looking for a very cheap 2nd tier rocket design I can list the parts for you.

Stage 1:

6 BACC solid boosters with thrust limiters set to 47%*

1 LV-T45 w/ 3 FL-T400 tanks

1 stack decoupler

*if you want you can mount these on modular girder segments

Stage 2:

1 LV-T45 w/ 5 FL-T400 tanks

1 stack decoupler

Cost: 14K

This lifter will get 6 tons into orbit which is enough for multiple biome exploration of Mun or Minmus. It will easily carry a Mun lander which can return to Kerbin for n00b navigators.

Remember, gimbals are the primary means of control and steering rockets. Reaction wheels are more for orbital maneuvers and fins are for crazy large, overpowered contraptions. The first fins you get don't steer your rocket either so there's really no point having them early.

Also, don't worry about "controlling" your rocket during the first 10km. Just point straight up and use solid rocket boosters as your primary thrust because they are very cheap to run off the launchpad. You start your turn around 10km or, after you have dropped your solids.

[tsotha]

I pretty much ignore the launchpad and runway. If you do the SRB overheat method to stage before you get decouplers, you can send your very first rocket into orbit. I just started a career and so far I've done three flights:

1. Orbital rocket. I stacked five of the starting fuel tanks (T-200? Something like that. The wiki is down right now.) over the starting liquid engine and put three SRBs under that. As an SRB is almost done fire the next one and the first will overhead and explode without damaging your rocket. Yeah, it's kind of cheesy. If your launch profile is efficient enough you'll have just enough fuel to get to orbit and back. Do a crew report and EVA when you're suborbital and in orbit.

2. Mun Lander. I got enough science on the first rocket to unlock the LV-T45 engine and the LV-909 engine plus decouplers, which is enough to build a Mun lander - nothing fancy, just goes there and back. I had a lot of trouble with this one without solar cells (because the 909 doesn't generate power) until I found out batteries are "physicsless", so put on a dozen batteries and you won't have any power problems. Put 50 on. They don't have any drawback but cost.

3. Science harvester to Minmus. I sent a lander to Minmus with eleven Science Jrs, eleven goo containers, and a thermometer. The gravity is low enough there that I can hit every biome plus low and high orbit (crew report, EVA, Science Jr, goo container, plus the thermometer if you're landed), which is enough to finish out all the science except part of the last row.

A mission to Duna should finish out the rest of the tree.

If you don't do the SRB overheat thing on the first flight you probably need to go to space with your first shot, which is enough to get decouplers for orbit on your second. Or you can scrounge around the launchpad.

Edited September 19, 2014 by tsotha

[Superfluous J]

If you don't do the SRB overheat thing on the first flight you probably need to go to space with your first shot, which is enough to get decouplers for orbit on your second. Or you can scrounge around the launchpad.

Actually you can get into orbit with 12 fuel tanks and the engine from the starting node. I leave off the parachute and instead put 3 of the trusses that the game calls struts around the POD (not the fuel tank). I can get that into (polar, even) orbit with enough fuel left over to deorbit and burn to a stop before hitting the ground. You may lose the engine and a few fuel tanks, but when what's left topples over the trusses will protect the capsule like a rollcage.

[regex]

You can have my early flights to the North Pole when you pry my dead, frost-bitten, polar-bear gnawed fingers from them.

That's not at all what I'm talking about, but thanks for replying!

[tsotha]

Actually you can get into orbit with 12 fuel tanks and the engine from the starting node. I leave off the parachute and instead put 3 of the trusses that the game calls struts around the POD (not the fuel tank). I can get that into (polar, even) orbit with enough fuel left over to deorbit and burn to a stop before hitting the ground. You may lose the engine and a few fuel tanks, but when what's left topples over the trusses will protect the capsule like a rollcage.

By "truss" I take it you mean the "modular girder segment"? I would have thought something with 12 fuel tanks wouldn't respond to SAS very well, but I tried it and it's surprisingly maneuverable. The landing seems kind of hard to time correctly.

[Superfluous J]

By "truss" I take it you mean the "modular girder segment"?

Oh you're right. They incorrectly call it a girder, not a strut. In my defense, they call other trusses struts. They even call one a cubic octagonal strut even though it's not a cube or an octagon.

Or a strut.

But anyway. Yeah. That's the truss I was talking about.

Edited September 19, 2014 by 5thHorseman