[WIP][.90][0.43]KSAEA Tech Tree and Game Rebalance

[Pirsig]

Kerbal Space and Atmospheric Exploration Agency Tech Tree and Game Rebalance Dev Thread

What started as a very simple config that moved two probe cores around and gave them some electric charge has turned into a complete reworking of the tech tree and rebalancing of the science system that is finally at a point where someone else might be interested in messing with it. Over time I'd like to add configs for mods to fit into this rebalancing as well, as I enjoy playing with a heavily modded setup. I'd love feedback from those who are interested in using something like this and am open to reworking things based on that.

So what is it?

This is a set of Module Manager configs designed to make the game a bit more challenging and to change the tech tree progress into something more loosely realistic, starting with manned atmospheric flight and small, unkerbaled, suborbital rockets.

I also wanted to match parts to nodes in a more logical way. Many parts have moved from their stock tiers and nodes or stayed in the same tier but have changed nodes. Some nodes also have very few parts or only one when not fleshed out with mods. This wasn't originally intentional, but I decided it made sense. Some breakthroughs in science have very specific implications, some are very broad and far reaching.

I wanted to make use of the extra nodes at the end of the tree as well. If you're not aware, Squad has included nodes at the end of the tree that require 1000 science to research, they do not show in R&D unless there's actually parts assigned to them. Not all of these nodes are used if you have just stock, but they continue to flesh out as more mods are added.

Science has also been rebalanced a bit, but total science values are mostly no longer affected by this mod as Squad added the functionality to change this in game with the difficulty settings introduced in .25. You get a fair amount of science the first time doing an experiment (60% currently) with diminishing returns thereafter, mimicking initial discovery and confirmation of scientific findings. Data amounts have also been reworked. This was based on Science Revisited by CaptRobau, but most of the values have been reworked.

Sensor experiments like the temperature scan, now transmit 100% of their value. This will affect any mod part using these modules as well. On the flip side of this, sample return type experiments like the mystery goo experiment, have had their transmission values lowered even further to force either a proper return mission or use of the lab. To go with this, the lab's boost to transmission value has been increased. The lab also consumes more power during processing though and most sample return experiments will not transmit at quite 100% even after processing.

Two new experiments have also been added. "Low Gravity Environment Experiments" are available on the Mobile Processing Lab and provide science comparable to a seismic or gravity scan. It transmits at only 40% to encourage you to process the experiment in the lab to get 100% transmission value. "Probe Situation Report" has been added to all properly configured probe parts and provides a very small amount of science, even less than crew reports. It does transmit at 100% however, and is meant to be the telemetry and operational data you're ostensibly using to pilot the probe.

All the non shielded solar panels are no longer retractable to help give some differentiation. All solar panels using the default squad module will now also use the curve created by CaptRobau in Science Revisited to follow the inverse-square law.

SAS systems have been rebalanced to be far less powerful than their stock torque values. This is to bring them more in line with the real life use of SAS systems. Currently this is a pretty basic across the board reduction by 75% with a few specific tweaks here and there. For instance, the 2.5m SAS part was hugely overpowered and so has been further reduced.

Certain command parts have been deemed only for atmospheric flight. If you only have stock parts this means only the Mk1 series of cockpits. These parts have had SAS removed entirely. If you're using a life support mod these parts will also not have any innate capacity to store the relevant resources.

This mod also adds several parts that are rescales and in a few cases, repurposing, of stock parts. This is mostly to help fill gaps at the beginning of the tree by adding more .625m parts. Compatibility configs for mods that provide similar parts will come in time and if you're using them instead, the parts created specifically for filling this size gap are all in Parts/0625m Parts and you can feel free to delete them.

Additional Info

I approached this with a philosophy of wanting the mod to play nicely with other mods as much as possible. Everything is done within the confines of the stock Squad defined tech tree, no new nodes have actually been added or values for the nodes changed. While tree placement might be odd for parts in a mod I haven't made configs for, nothing *should* break in any mod because of this one.

I've also tried to put together everything in such a way that it can be easily tailored to your personal needs, separating different aspects of the pack into different configs so they can easily be removed individually. They are also commented to be easily understandable and searchable for your own modification. All comments use the part name displayed in game, allowing you to search for parts both by their actual part name as well as the display name.

I started this without having any idea about Stupid_Chris' Stock ReBalance project, and originally had some of the same things implemented alongside the tech tree rebalance. This included solar panel changes, rebalancing of probe cores, and a few other odds and ends. As I was looking at getting deeper down the rabbit hole into rebalancing many more parts, I found SRB which prompted me to remove most of that stuff from the mod and start working specifically with SRB in mind. I've since decided to back away from that idea and re-implemented many of these original balance changes as well as expanded further.

Because of MM run order, anything SRB does should run after me, so if your using SRB changes to the same properties *should* take precedence over mine. For the same reason, if you want to use SRB, but want my values for say, SAS, you'd need to delete the relevant patches from SRB. The compatibility for SRB provided with this mod ONLY moves SRB's part rescales to appropriate nodes. In the future I might offer a patch to run after SRB and convert conflicting changes back to KSAEA values, but for now the only support I'm willing to commit in this regard is assisting you in which parts of SRB to delete to get KSAEA values.

Why?

Because no other tech tree mod did what I actually wanted and Tree Loader seemed to be a complete mess to me. Sure it functioned, but hitting an outside database, poor maintenance of the plugin, and it's eventual decline into not being actively maintained left a very sour taste in my mouth. I'm grateful for many of the wonderful plugins R4m0n built the foundation for, Tree Loader was a major miss for me though. There's plugins out there now taking tree loader's place and they're fixing some issues, but I'd still have to rely on an unproven mod to stay maintained.

On the other hand it's pretty clear Module Manager isn't going anywhere. It also has the lowest possibility for any sort of conflict with another mod. Basically, the best way to make sure this plays nice with everyone's setup is to use MM configs and type out a lot of stuff manually. Most mod authors already know how to use MM as well and can easily make configs for their mods to follow this rebalance if they wish to do so without having to learn anything extra really.

Taking this approach of not using any plugins outside MM itself does set certain limits. I can't modify EVA kerbals for example, which is why they still transmit surface samples at the stock %. Though I've decided in my head that the extra data is the kerbal's description of the sample . I also can't change the research values for nodes in the tree or add new nodes, but honestly this just causes more room for compatibility issues. In the end, it creates different approaches to a similar problem many of us have with not being satisfied with the current tech/science setup and it's up to you which approach you like best.

What's New?

Alright, so just a quick and dirty update for .90 to cover all the new parts. I also added a small wing and control surface to start for controlling small rockets. I did not mess with any of the new SAS level stuff yet, I'll add that to the SAS rebalance for .5. I also did a couple of quick patches for small mods, MechJeb, RealChute, and SCANsat. I did not mess with science values for SCANsat at all since that has it's own thing based on % scanned and stuff that all makes perfect sense and I felt no need to mess with it. There's also a couple tweaks to existing reaction wheel values and the SKGU.

v .43

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for SCANsat

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Real Chute Parachute Systems

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Mech Jeb

-SKGU Probe Core Electric Charge increased, consumption rate decreased

-MK2 Drone Core SAS torque has been decreased to .75

-Probodobodyne OKTO SAS torque is now equal to that of the Probodobodyne HECS

-The new MK3 Cockpit has had SAS rebalanced and is now governed by the global reduction

-New Aerodynamic parts for small rockets, includes FAR & DR support

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for new stock parts

So, next version should have the new approach to the upper tier construction nodes I was talking about as well as rebalancing for probes. This currently involves changing weight, power consumption, and adding decent amounts of onboard electric charge. I'll also add the new SAS level stuff to the rebalance, and probably break out the reaction wheel stuff to be its own config. The ridiculous capacity of the MK3 passenger section is also something I plan on remedying. I'm also going to add a .version file for KSP AVC and switch to that versioning scheme with 0.5.0.

DOWNLOAD: Dropbox (Latest Version .43)

GitHub Repo can be found here.

Fix for Visual Survey contracts

Module Manager is required for this mod to function and is included in the download. Do not extract it if you have a more recent version.

INSTALLATION

1. Delete any older version of KSAEA or Module Manager.

2. Unzip all contents to your Kerbal Space Program/GameData folder.

NOTE: If you're using this with an in progress save, any part you have already researched will still be available to you, even if it's now moved to a node you've not researched. This has to do with the way the persistence file saves the parts you've unlocked and can be remedied by manually changing the persistence file or starting a new game. Deleting the moved parts, loading your save and causing it to save a new tech tree without those parts, leaving the game, and restoring the parts, should also move things to their proper place.

This rebalance builds on code and concepts from Science Revisited by Captrobau

The Following mods have had compatibility configs written:

Asmi's ECLSS Revived

Deadly Reentry Continued

DMagic Orbital Science

Interstellar Flight Inc. Life Support

Kerbal Attachment System

MechJeb

Procedural Fairings

RealChute Parachute Systems

Remote Tech

SCANsat

Snacks! Kerbal Simplified Life Support

Stock ReBalance

TAC Life Support

Universal Storage

v .43

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for SCANsat

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Real Chute Parachute Systems

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Mech Jeb

-SKGU Probe Core Electric Charge increased, consumption rate decreased

-MK2 Drone Core SAS torque has been decreased to .75

-Probodobodyne OKTO SAS torque is now equal to that of the Probodobodyne HECS

-The new MK3 Cockpit has had SAS rebalanced and is now governed by the global reduction

-New Aerodynamic parts for small rockets, includes FAR & DR support

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for new stock parts

v .42

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for IFILS

-Life Support Rebalancing for IFILS

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for ECLSS

-Life Support Rebalancing for ECLSS

-Life Support Rebalancing for Snacks!

-Life Support Rebalancing for TACLS

-New part, SKGU Probe Core Added

-TacLifeSupportTechTreeRebalance.cfg changed to TACLSTechTreeRebalance.cfg

-Science and Tech Tree Rebalancing for new DMagic Parts

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage ECLSS Pack

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage IFI Life Support Pack

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage Kerbal Attachment System Pack

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage Snacks! Life Support Pack

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage TAC Life Support Pack

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for DMagic Orbital Science Universal Storage parts

-1.25m Launch Escape System heatProduction changed to 400

-All KSAEA parts now have compatibility patches for Deadly Reentry

v .41a

-Science Rebalance for DMagic Orbital Science

v .41

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for DMagic Orbital Science

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Kerbal Attachment System

-SAS has been rebalanced

-Mk1 Cockpit, Mk1 Inline Cockpit, and PPD-12 Cupola Module have had SAS removed

v .40

-Added several part rescales

-Fixed placement and scale for the Aerodynamic Nose Cone

-Revisions to the stock Tech Tree Rebalance

-Space Plane Parts Tech Tree Rebalance

-Revisions to Deadly Reentry tech tree rebalance

-Revisions to Tac Life Support tech tree rebalance

-Revisions to Procedural Fairings tech tree rebalance

v .30

-Added Solar Panel Rebalance

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Tac Life Support

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Remote Tech 2

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Procedural Fairings

-KSAEA Science Experiments rebalanced

-Removed modification to PresMat Barometer's cost

-Removed most balancing of total science from experiments since it's now controllable from in game difficulty

v .20

-Moved over to using MM's new capacity to handle variables

-Revisions to the Stock Science Rebalance

v .11

-Revisions to stock tech tree rebalance

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Deadly Reentry Continued

v .1

-Stock science experiments have had reward and transmissions values reworked

-Mobile Processing Lab MPL-LG-2 has been reworked`

-New experiment "Low Gravity Environment Experiments" added

-New experiment called "Probe Situation Report" added

-Tech tree rebalance for Stock Rebalance

-Tech tree rebalance for all stock parts

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for SCANsat
-Moved the SCAN RADAR Altimetry Sensor to Space Exploration
-Moved the SCAN Been There Done That® to Advanced Science Tech
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Real Chute Parachute Systems
-Moved the RealChute Cone Chute to Advanced Landing and increased research cost to 7500
-Moved the RealChute Radial Chute to Advanced Landing
-Moved the RealChute Stack Chute to Composites
-Moved the RealChute Double Chute to Aerospace Tech
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Mech Jeb
-Moved the Rover Autopilot upgrade to Specialized Control
-Moved the Ascent Guidance upgrade to Advanced Flight Control
-Moved the Docking Guidance upgrade to Specialized Control
-SKGU Probe Core Electric Charge increased, consumption rate decreased
-maxAmount increased to 100
-rate decreased to 0.1
-MK2 Drone Core SAS torque has been decreased to .75
-Probodobodyne OKTO SAS torque is now equal to that of the Probodobodyne HECS
-The new MK3 Cockpit has had SAS rebalanced and is now governed by the global reduction
-Roll Torque is now equal to Pitch and Yaw Torque
-New Aerodynamic parts for small rockets, includes FAR & DR support
-Structural Wing Type E added, rescale of structuralWing4
-Elevon 6 added, rescale of elevon4
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for new stock parts
-Moved the Mk3 Cockpit to Electronics
-Moved the Mk3 Passenger Module to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Mk3 Cargo Bay CRG-25 to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Cargo Bay CRG-50 to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Cargo Bay CRG-100 to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the C7 Brand Adapter - 2.5m to 1.25m to Specialized Construction
-Moved the C7 Brand Adapter Slanted - 2.5m to 1.25m to Specialized Construction
-Moved the 2.5m to Mk2 Adapter to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk3 to Mk2 Adapter to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 to 2.5m Adapter to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 to 2.5m Adapter Slanted to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 to 3.75m Adapter to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Monopropellant Tank to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Liquid Fuel Fuselage Short to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Liquid Fuel Fuselage to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Liquid Fuel Fuselage Long to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Rocket Fuel Fuselage Short to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Rocket Fuel Fuselage to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Rocket Fuel Fuselage Long to Advanced Metalworks

v .42
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for IFILS
-Moved the IFI Life Support Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the IFI Life Support Tank to Advanced MetalWorks
-Life Support Rebalancing for IFILS
-Removed IFILS life support resources from the Mk1 Cockpit
-Removed IFILS life support resources from the Mk1 Inline Cockpit
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for ECLSS
-Moved the ECLSS Oxygen Small Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the ECLSS Dioxide Small Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the ECLSS Oxygen Big Tank to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the ECLSS Oxygen Big Tank to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the ECLSS Oxygen Regenerator to Specialized Electrics
-Life Support Rebalancing for ECLSS
-Removed ECLSS life support resources from the Mk1 Cockpit
-Removed ECLSS life support resources from the Mk1 Inline Cockpit
-Life Support Rebalancing for Snacks!
-Removed Snacks life support resources from the Mk1 Cockpit
-Removed Snacks life support resources from the Mk1 Inline Cockpit
-Removed Snacks life support resources from the EAS-1 External Command Seat
-Removed Snacks life support resources from the Probododyne RoveMate
-Life Support Rebalancing for TACLS
-Removed TACLS life support resources from the Mk1 Cockpit
-Removed TACLS life support resources from the Mk1 Inline Cockpit
-Removed TACLS life support resources from the EAS-1 External Command Seat
-Removed TACLS MFT/RF compatible life support resources from the Mk1 Cockpit
-Removed TACLS MFT/RF compatible life support resources from the Mk1 Inline Cockpit
-New part, SKGU Probe Core Added
-Heavy, high power consumption probe core with no SAS
-Researched in the starting node
-TacLifeSupportTechTreeRebalance.cfg changed to TACLSTechTreeRebalance.cfg
-Science and Tech Tree Rebalancing for new DMagic Parts
-New experiments (Albedo/X-Ray) follow the global multiplier for BaseValue
-New experiments (Albedo/X-Ray) are now governed by the global value for transmitting "sensor" experiments
-Moved the Micro Goo Containment Pod to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Dynamic Albedo of Neutrons to Field Science
-Fixed error with Solar Particle Analysis transmission value, Solar Particle Analysis should now have globalSampleXmitDataScalar correctly applied
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage
-Moved the Universal Storage Quadcore to General Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Hexacore to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Octocore to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Universal Storage Safety Decoupler (small) to General Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Safety Decoupler (Large) to Composites
-Moved the Universal Storage Science Bay to General Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Alkaline Fuel Cell to Advanced Electrics
-Moved the Universal Storage Elektron to Electronics
-Moved the Universal Storage Hydrogen Block to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Oxygen Block to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Water Tank to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Radial Oxygen Tank to Advanced Construction
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage ECLSS Pack
-Moved the Universal Storage Carbon Dioxide Block to Specialized Construction
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage IFI Life Support Pack
-Moved the Universal Storage IFI Lifesupport to Specialized Construction
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage Kerbal Attachment System Pack
-Moved the Universal Storage KAS Container to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage EVA-X to Field Science
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage Snacks! Life Support Pack
-Moved the Universal Storage Snackbox to Specialized Construction
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Universal Storage TAC Life Support Pack
-Moved the Universal Storage Water Purifier to Specialized Electrics
-Moved the Universal Storage Carbon Dioxide Block to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Food Bag to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Waste Tank to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Universal Storage Greywater Tank to Specialized Construction
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for DMagic Orbital Science Universal Storage parts
-Moved the Univ. Storage - Mystery Goo Containment to Precision Engineering
-Moved the Univ. Storage - SC-9001 Science Jr. to Composites
-Moved the Univ. Storage - Magnetometer Boom to General Construction
-Moved the Univ. Storage - RPWS Antenna to Precision Engineering
-Moved the US - Orbital Telescope to Meta-Materials
-Moved the US - Solar Particle Collector to Advanced Science Tech
-Moved the Univ. Storage - Atmospheric Sensor to Electronics
-Moved the Univ. Storage - PresMat / 2Hot to General Construction
-1.25m Launch Escape System heatProduction changed to 400
-All KSAEA parts now have compatability patches for Deadly Reentry
-Patches are at the end of each part's config
-MX-A Adapter maxTemp adjusted to 1250 when DR is present
-MX-100 Fuel Tank maxTemp adjusted to 1450 when DR is present
-MX-50 Fuel Tank maxTemp adjusted to 1450 when DR is present
-MX-25 Fuel Tank maxTemp adjusted to 1450 when DR is present
-MX-12 Fuel Tank maxTemp adjusted to 1450 when DR is present
-MX Nose Cone maxTemp adjusted to 1450; full coating, 25% reflective heat shield added when DR is present
-MX-S55 "Firecracker" 0.625m Solid Fuel Booster maxTemp adjusted to 1400; heatProduction adjusted to 175 when DR is present
-MX-S105 "Mini-BACC" 0.625 Solid Fuel Booster maxTemp adjusted to 1500; heatProduction adjusted to 225 when DR is present
-SKGU Probe Core maxTemp adjusted to 1100 when DR is present
-Smaller Gear Bay maxTemp adjusted to 1800; full coating, 25% reflective heat shield added when DR is present
-MX-LC Launch Stability System maxTemp adjusted to 2500 when DR is present
-1.25m Launch Escape System maxTemp adjusted to 1900; heatProduction adjusted to 275 when DR is present

v .41a
-Science Rebalance for DMagic Orbital Science
-All experiments now follow the global multiplier for BaseValue, currently 60%
-All experiments except Solar Particle Analysis are now governed by global value for transmitting "sensor" experiments, currently 100%
-Solar Particle Analysis is now governed by the global value for transmitting "sample return" experiments, currently 15%
-DM Versions of stock science experiments are now governed by their respective global transmit value

v .41
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for DMagic Orbital Science
-Moved the Magnetometer Boom to start
-Moved the Surface Ablation Laser Light Imager to Electronics
-Moved the ExoKerbol Core Drill to Science Tech
-Moved the Orbital Telescope to Precision Engineering
-Moved the Multi-Spectral Imaging Platform to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the Anomalous Signal Sensor to Advanced Science Tech
-Moved the RPWS Antenna to Space Exploration
-Moved the Solar Particle Collector to Advanced Science Tech
-Moved the Soil Moisture Sensor to Experimental Science
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Kerbal Attachment System
-Increased research cost for the Container Type A to 1200
-Moved the Container Type B to Specialzed Construction and increased research cost to 1200
-Increased research cost for the Container Bay Type A/B to 1000
-Moved the Radial Connector Port to Advanced MetalWorks and increased research cost to 9500
-Moved the Stack Connector Port (0.5m) to Specialized Construction and increased research cost to 2200
-Increased research cost for the Anchor to 1200
-Moved the Grappling Hook to Advanced MetalWorks and increases research cost to 13000
-Moved the Electro-Magnet to Experimental Electrics and increased research cost to 17000
-Moved the Hook Support to Experimental Electrics and increased research cost to 11000
-Moved the Pipe end point to Meta-Materials and increased research cost to 9500
-Increased research cost for the Ground pylon to 750
-Moved the Strut end point to Composites and increased research cost to 12500
-Moved the Horizontal stack winch (0.5m) to Actuators and increased research cost to 5500
-Moved the Vertical stack winch (0.5m) to Actuators and increased research cost to 5500
-Moved the Horizontal radial winch (0.5m) to Nanolathing and increased research cost to 14500
-Moved the Vertical radial winch (0.5m) to Nanolathing and increased research cost to 14500
-SAS has been rebalanced
-All stock parts with SAS have received a base reduction of 75%
-Some parts have had this number further altered to change the original balance of SAS among command pods
-Mk1 Cockpit, Mk1 Inline Cockpit, and PPD-12 Cupola Module have had SAS removed

v .40
-Added several part rescales
-Added Smaller Gear Bay
-Added 1.25m Launch Escape System
-Added 0.625m "MX" Parts System
-MX-A Adapter
-adapter for 0.625m to 1.25m parts
-MX Nose Cone
-MX-LC Launch Stability System
-smaller, weaker launch clamp
-Doesn't display correctly on first load in VAB, but functions correctly
-MX-12 "Pancake" Fuel Tank
-MX-25 Fuel Tank
-MX-50 Fuel Tank
-MX-100 Fuel Tank
-MX-S55 Solid Fuel Booster
-MX-S105 SOlid Fuel Booster
-Fixed placement and scale for the Aerodynamic Nose Cone
-Revisions to the stock Tech Tree Rebalance
-Moved the Command Pod Mk1 to Space Exploration
-Moved the Mk1 Inline Cockpit to Start
-Moved the Mk1-2 Command Pod to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the Mk2 Cockpit to Aerospace Tech
-Moved the Mk2 Inline Cockpit to Aerospace Tech
-Moved the Mk3 Cockpit to Electronics
-Moved the PPD-10 Hitchiker Storage Container to Specialzed Construction
-Moved the MK2 Crew Cabin to Aerospace Tech
-Moved the MK2 Drone Core to Automation
-Moved the Advanced Inline Stabilizer to Specialized Control
-Moved the Structural Intake to nanolathing
-Moved the Engine Nacelle to Hypersonic Flight
-Moved the Mk2 Clamp-O-Tron to Nanolathing
-Moved the Z-1k Rechargeable Battery Bank to Large Electrics
-Moved the Z-4k Rechargeable Battery Bank to Large Electrics
-Moved the Telus Mobility Enhancer to Actuators
-Moved the Gigantor XL Solar Array to Specialized Electrics
-Moved the Launch Escape System to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the Mk2 Cargo Bay CRG-04 to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 Cargo Bay CRG-08 to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Oscar-B Fuel Tank to Start
-Moved the FL-T100 Fuel Tank to General Construction
-Moved the FL-T200 Fuel Tank to General Construction
-Moved the FL-T400 Fuel Tank to General Construction
-Moved the FL-T800 Fuel Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Kerbodyne S3-3600 Tank to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Kerbodyne S3-7200 Tank to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Kerbodyne S3-14400 Tank to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Stratis-V Roundified Monopropellant Tank to General Construction
-Moved the FL-R1 RCS Fuel Tank to Specialized Construction
-Moved the FL-R10 RCS Fuel Tank to General Construction
-Moved the FL-R25 RCS Fuel Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Mk2 Liquid Fuel Fuselage Short to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 LF+O Fuselage Short to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 Monopropellant Tank to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 Liquid Fuel Fuselage to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 LF+O Fuselage to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 Bicoupler to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk3 to Mk2 Adapter to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Mk3 Fuselage to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the TurboJet Engine to Supersonic Flight
-Moved the Vernor Engine to Advanced Flight Control
-Moved the O-10 MonoPropellant Engine to Advanced Rocketry
-Moved the LV-1 Liquid Fuel Engine to Start
-Moved the LV-1R Liquid Fuel Engine to Basic Rocketry
-Moved LV-T30 Liquid Fuel Engine to Heavy Rocketry
-Moved LV-T45 Liquid Fuel Engine to Heavy Rocketry
-Moved the Rockomax 24-77 to Advanced Rocketry
-Moved the Rockomax 48-7s to General Rocketry
-Moved the Rockomax Mark 55 Radial Mount Liquid Engine to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Rockomax "Skipper" Liquid Engine to Heavier Rocketry
-Moved the LFB KR-1x2 to Very Heavy Rocketry
-Moved the S3 KS-25x4 Engine Cluster to Experimental Rocketry
-Moved the RT-10 Solid Fuel Booster to Advanced Rocketry
-Moved the Rockomax BACC Solid Fuel Booster to Heavy Rocketry
-Moved the S1 SRB-KD25k to Heavier Rocketry
-Moved the Place-Anywhere 7 Linear RCS Port Engine to Flight Control
-Moved the Standard Canard to Supersonic Flight
-Moved the Advanced Canard to Advanced Aerodynamics
-Moved the AV-T1 Winglet to Stability
-Moved the AV-R8 Winglet to Stability
-Moved the Swept Wings to Supersonic Flight
-Moved the Standard Nosecone to Composites
-Moved the Protective Rocket Nosecone Mk7 to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the Wing Connector Type A to Heavy Aerodynamics
-Moved the Wing Connector Type B to Heavy Aerodynamics
-Moved the Wing Connector Type C to Advanced Aerodynamics
-Moved the Wing Connector Type D to Start
-Moved the Wing Connector Type E to Start
-Moved the Small Delta Wing to Aerodynamics
-Moved the Delta Wing to Heavy Aerodynamics
-Moved the Structural Wing Type A to Heavy Aerodynamics
-Moved the Structural Wing Type B to Heavy Aerodynamics
-Moved the Structural Wing Type C to Supersonic Flight
-Moved the Structural Wing Type D to Start
-Moved the Swept Wing Type A to Supersonic Flight
-Moved the Swept Wing Type B to Heavy Aerodynamics
-Moved the Wing Strake to High Altitude Flight
-Moved the Elevon 2 to Flight Control
-Moved the Elevon 3 to Flight Control
-Moved the Elevon 4 to Start
-Moved the Elevon 5 to Specialized Control
-Moved the Mk2 to 1.25m Adapter to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Kerbodyne ADTP-2-3 to Meta-Materials
-Moved the Mk2 to 1.25m Adapter Long to Meta-Materials
-Moved the TT18-A Launch Stability Enhancer to General Construction
-Moved the TR-2V Stack Decoupler to Basic Rocketry
-Moved the TR-18A Stack Decoupler to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Rockomax Brand Decoupler to Specialized Construction
-Moved the TR-38-D to Meta-Materials
-Revisions to Deadly Reentry tech tree rebalance
-Moved the 1.25m Heatshield to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Heat Sheild for Mk 1-2 Pod to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the 3.75m Heatshield to Meta-Materials
-Moved the 6.25m Inflatable Heatshield to Aerospace Tech
-Moved the UP13 Decoupler Advanced Construction
-Moved the UP20 Decoupler (2M) Specialized Construction
-Moved the UP25 Decoupler to Specialized Construction
-Moved the UP30 Decoupler (3M) Composites
-Moved the UP40 Decoupler (4M) Meta-Materials
-Revisions to Tac Life Support tech tree rebalance
-Moved the 3m Life Support HexCans to Advanced Metalworks
-Moved the 0.625m Life Support Containers to Advanced Construction
-Moved the 1.25m Life Support Containers to Specialzed Construction
-Moved the 2.5m Life Support Containers to Meta-Materials
-Revisions to Procedural Fairings tech tree rebalance
-Moved the Thrust Plate Multi-Adapter to Basic Rocketry
-Moved the Interstage Fairing Adapter to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Egg-Shaped Fuselage Fairing to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Conic Fuselage Fairing to Advanced Construction
-Fairing size progression reworked
-starts with 0.5m to 1.0m
-Aerodynamics upgrades to 1.5m
-Advanced Aerodynamics upgrades to 3.0m
-Heavy Aerodynamics upgrades to 5.0m
-Experimental Aerodynamics upgrades to 8.0m
-Thrust plate size progression reworked
-starts with 0.5m to 1.0m
-General Construction unpgrades to 1.5m
-Specialized Construction upgrades to 3.0m
-Meta-Materials upgrades to 6.0m

v .30
-Added Solar Panel Rebalance
-All solar panels using Squads default module now use Capt Robau's power curve (If SRB is not installed)
-OX-4W 2x3 Photovoltaic Panels are no longer retractable (If SRB is not installed)
-OX-4L 1x6 Photovoltaic Panels are no longer retractable (If SRB is not installed)
-Gigantor XL Solar Array is no longer retractable
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Tac Life Support
-Moved the .75m Life Support HexCans to Precision Engineering
-Moved the 1.5m Life Support HexCans to Specialized Construction
-Moved the 3m Life Support HexCans to Meta-Materials
-Moved the 1.25m Life Support Containers to Advanced Construction
-Moved the 2.5m Life Support Containers to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the TACLS Water Purifier to Advanced Electrics
-Moved the TACLS Water Purifier, Large to Advanced Electrics
-Moved both sizes of the TACLS Sabatier Recyler to Specialized Electrics
-Moved both sizes of the TACLS Carbon Extractor to Specialized Electrics
-Moved the TACLS Air Filter to Aerospace Tech
-Prevents TACLS from moving OX-STAT Photovoltaic Panels placement in tech tree
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Remote Tech 2
-Moved the Reflectron DP-10 to Start
-Moved the Communotron 32 to Field Science
-Moved the CommTech EXP-VR-2T to Advanced Science Tech
-Moved the Reflectron SS-5, Reflectron KR-7 to Space Exploration
-Moved the Reflectron LL-5, Reflectron KR-14 to Electronics
-Moved the Reflectron GX-128 to Experimental Science Tech
-Moved the CommTech-1 to Meta Materials (Only when RT2 is installed)
-Moved the Communotron-88 to Advanced Exploration (Only when RT2 is installed)
-Moved the Communotron 16 to Science Tech (Only when RT2 is installed)
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Procedural Fairings
-Moved the Fairing Base to General Construction
-Moved the Interstage Fairing Adapter to General Construction
-Moved the Fairing Base Ring to General Construction
-Moved the Egg-Shaped Fuselage Fairing to General Construction
-Moved the Conic Fuselage Fairing to General Construction
-Moved the Egg-Shaped Fairing to General Construction
-Moved the Conic Fairing to General Construction
-Moved size upgrades for fairing bases
-Aerodynamic Systems upgrade moved to Specialized Construction
-Heavy Aerodynamics upgrade moved to Meta-Materials
-Experimental Aerodynamics upgrade moved to Nanolathing
-Moved size upgrades for thruster plates
-Very Heavy Rocketry upgrade moved to Meta-Materials
-Experimental Rocketry Upgrade moved to Nanolathing
-KSAEA Science Experiments rebalanced
-Experiments added by KSAEA are now controlled by the global balance variables
-Probe Situation Report total science decreased
-Low Gravity Environment Experiments total science decreased
-Removed modification to PresMat Barometer's cost
-Removed most balancing of total science from experiments since it's now controllable from in game difficulty
-SurfaceSample experiment is still worth less than stock.

v .20
-Moved over to using MM's new capacity to handle variables
-KSAEAVars.cfg houses global variables for the mod to make balancing easier
-Total science and the initial worth of an experiment are both adjustable this way
-xmitDataScalar is adjustable this way and has been split into two categories
-sensor experiments are experiments like temperature scans, etc
-sample return experiments are experiments like mystery goo observation
-Revisions to the Stock Science Rebalance
-Crew Reports
-total science decreased
-EVA Reports
-total science decreased
-Mystery Goo Observation
-total science decreased
-transmission increased to 15%
-Surface Sample
-total science decreased
-data size increased
-transmission increased to 15%
-Materials Study
-total science decreased
-Temperature Scan
-total science increased
-Atmospheric Pressure Scan
-total science decreased
-Seismic Scan
-total science decreased
-Gravity Scan
-total science decreased
-Atmosphere Analysis
-total science decreased

v .11
-Revisions to stock tech tree rebalance
-Moved the Mk1-2 Command Pod from Advanced Exploration to Space Exploration
-Moved the Mk1 Lander Can from Space Exploration to Landing
-Moved the MK2 Lander Can from Advanced Exploration to Advanced Landing
-Moved the Launch Escape System from Advanced Exploration to Space Exploratoin
-Moved the RoveMax Model S2 from Space Exploration to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the Probodobodyne RoveMate from Space Exploration to Advaned Exploration
-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Deadly Reentry Continued
-Moved the 0.625m Heatshield to Survivability
-Moved the 1.25m Heatshield to Survivability
-Moved the Heat Shield for Mk 1-2 Pod to spaceExploration
-Moved the 3.75m Heatshield to Composites
-Moved the UP13 Decoupler to Survivability
-Moved the UP20 Decoupler (2M) to General Construction
-Moved the UP25 Decoupler to Advanced Construction
-Moved the UP30 Deocupler (3M) to Specialized Construction
-Moved the UP40 Decoupler (4M) to Advanced Metalworks

v .1
-Stock science experiments have had reward and transmissions values reworked
-all experiments give 60% of available science the first time with diminishing returns thereafter
-Crew Reports
-biome specific everywhere except high orbit
-EVA Reports
-only biome specific while landed or splashed
-total science decreased
-Mystery Goo Observation
-total science decreased
-data size increased
-tranmits at 10%
-Surface Sample
-total science decreased
-data size increased
-transmits at 10% when initiated by anything except a kerbal on EVA
-Materials Study
-total science increased
-data size increased
-transmits at 20%
-Temperature Scan
-total science decreased
-can be performed anywhere
-transmits at 100%
-Atmospheric Pressure Scan
-biome specific while flying low and landed
-total science decreased
-transmits at 100%
-Seismic Scan
-total science decreased
-data size decreased
-transmits at 100%
-Gravity Scan
-total science decreased
-data size decreased
-transmits at 100%
-Atmosphere Analysis
-data size decreased
-transmits at 100%
-Mobile Processing Lab MPL-LG-2 has been reworked
-mass increased
-kerbal capacity increased
-science transmission boost increased
-power consumption during processing increased
-New experiment "Low Gravity Environment Experiments" added
-Science comparable to gravity/seismic scan
-is performed by the Mobile Processing Lab
-Transmits at 100%
-New experiment called "Probe Situation Report" added
-low science amount
-transmits at 100%
-can be performed by any properly configured probe core part
-Tech tree rebalance for Stock Rebalance
-Launch Escape Tower (0.625) moved to survivability
-Tech tree rebalance for all stock parts
-COMMAND PODS AND PROBES
-Moved the Mk1 Cockpit to start
-Moved the Command Pod Mk1 to Survivability
-Moved the Mk2 Cockpit to Survivability
-Moved the Mk1-2 Command Pod to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the PPD-10 Hitchiker Storage Container to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the Mk1 Lander Can to Space Exploration
-Moved the Mk2 Lander-can to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the PPD-12 Cupola Module to Composites
-Moved the Stayputnik Mk. 1 to Survivability
-Moved the Probodobodyne HECS to Science Tech
-Moved the Porbodobodyne OKTO to Science Tech
-Moved the Probodobodyne QBE to Unmanned Tech
-Moved the Probodobodyne OKTO2 to Precision Engineering
-Moved the Advanced S.A.S Module, Large to Large Control
-UTILITY
-Moved the XM-G50 Radial Air Intake to start
-Moved the Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Clamp-O-Tron Shielded Docking Port to Actuators
-Moved the Clamp-O-Tron Jr. to Precision Engineering
-Moved the Inline Clamp-O-Tron to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Small Gear Bay to start
-Moved the LT-1 Landing Struts to Landing
-Moved the Z-100 Rechargeable Battery Pack to start
-moved the Z-200 Rechargeable Battery Pack to Science Tech
-Moved the Z-400 Rechargeable Battery to Electrics
-Moved the Telus Mobility Enhancer to Space Exploration
-Moved the Mk16 Parachute to Survivability
-Moved the Mk16-XL Parachute to Advanced Landing
-Moved the Pegasus I Mobility Enhancer to start
-Moved the Telus-LV Bay Mobility Enhancer to Actuators
-Moved the PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator to Advanced Electrics
-Moved the SP-W 2x3 Photovoltaic Panels to Composites
-Moved the SP-L 1x6 Photovoltaic Panels to Composites
-Moved the Launch Escape System to Advanced Exploration
-Moved the RoveMax Model S2 to Space Exploration
-SCIENCE
-Moved the Thermometer to start
-Moved the Barometer to start and reduced its cost
-Moved the Science Jr to Actuators
-Moved the Mobile Processing Lab MPL-LG-2 to Field Science
-Moved the Mystery Goo Containment Unit to Science Tech
-Moved the Double-C Seismic Accelerometer to Science Tech
-Moved the Sensor Array Computing Nose Cone to Electronics
-Moved the Communotron 88-88 to Meta-Materials
-PROPULSION
-Moved the FL-T200 Fuel Tank to Basic Rocketry
-Moved the FL-T800 Fuel Tank to General Construction
-Moved the Rockomax x200-32 Fuel Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Rockomax x200-16 Fuel Tank to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Rockomax Jumbo-64 Fuel Tank to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Kerbodyne S3-3600 Tank to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Kerbodyne S3-7200 Tank to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Kerbodyne S3-14400 Tank to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank to Specialized Construction
-Moved the FL-R1 RCS Fuel Tank to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Mk1 Fuselage - Jet Fuel to start
-Moved the Mk2 Fuselage to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Mk2 to size 1 Adapter to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Basic Jet Engine to start
-Moved LV-T30 Liquid Engine to Basic Rocketry
-Moved the LV-909 Liquid Fuel Engine to General Rocketry
-Moved the Rockomax 48-7s to Advanced Rocketry
-Moved the Sepratron I to start
-Moved the R.A.P.I.E.R. Engine to Experimental Rocketry
-AERODYNAMICS
-Moved the AV-T1 Winglet to start
-Moved the AV-R8 Winglet to start
-Moved the Tail Fin to start
-Moved the Delta-Deluxe Winglet to Flight Control
-Moved the Aerodynamic Nose Cone to start
-Moved the NCS Adapter to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Delta Wing to Advanced Aerodynamics
-STRUCTURAL
-Moved the Structural Fuselage to start
-Moved the Kerbodyne ADTP-2-3 to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Cubic Octagonal Strut to General Construction
-Moved the Octagonal Strut to General Construction
-Moved the TVR-200 Stack Bi-Coupler to General Construction
-Moved the TVR-2160C Mk2 Stack Quad-Coupler to Advanced Construction
-Moved the TVR-200L Stack Bi-Adapter to specialized Construction
-Moved the TVR-300L Stack Tri-Adapter to Specialized Construction
-Moved the TVR-400L Stack Quad-Adapter to Specialized Construction
-Moved the TT18-A Launch Stability Enhancer to Stability
-Moved the TT-38K Radial Decoupler to General Construction
-Moved the TR-38-D to Composites
-Moved the FL-A10 Adapter to Advanced Construction
-Moved the Small Hardpoint to Specialized Construction
-Moved the Structural Pylon to Composites
-Moved the TR-2C Stack Separator to Composites
-Moved the TR-18D Stack Separator to Composites
-Moved the TR-XL Stack Separator to Composites
-Moved the Rockomax HubMax Multi-Point Connector to Advanced MetalWorks
-Moved the Probodobodyne RoveMate to Space Exploration

v .43

License: CC BY NC SA

Edited January 3, 2015 by Pirsig
Fix for contract issue

[Pirsig]

So I spent some time playing with the Module Managers new implementation for variables, got it figured out, and got the science rebalance set up using variables now for much easier balancing. Individual experiments can still be easily tuned, but there's now global values to control total science, initial science, and transmission %, which was split into two categories. One for sensor type experiments like the temperature scan, and one for sample return type experiments like mystery goo observation. This means that it will be super easy from now on to raise or lower these overall values, yay easy balancing! Thanks Sarbian.

As a result of this change most experiments have had their total science decreased even further, which I don't think is an issue after finding out that the stock game has around 75k available science excluding asteroids. Even if all the extra squad provided tiers are used there's only 20kish science needed. This leads me to think there's still plenty of room to come down even more, while still leaving plenty of extra science for mods that use it like Kerbal Construction Time. The two new experiments have not had any values changed yet, I'll probably rebalance them to be in line with stock numbers in the EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION and then use a separate config to govern them under the same globals as the rest of the science experiments.

For now though, without further adieu I give you .20: Dropbox

Edited September 22, 2014 by Pirsig

[thorfinn]

Hi, is this .25 compatible?

[Pirsig]

So I totally feel like an idiot for not paying attention to what was coming in KSP .25, which added difficulty sliders for a bunch of stuff including total science from experiments. However, it's super awesome that they've done this so it's all good. Because of that I've removed almost all of my rebalancing of total science values. Surface Samples are still worth a bit less than stock. Other than that I was using MM to accomplish the same thing that setting the science reward slider does now, with a value of 80%. All the rest of the science changes such as transmit values and the like are still in place.

I've also decided to back off the idea of designing the mod with Stock ReBalance in mind as it ends up doing a whole lot more than I maybe want. That's my fault for jumping on the bandwagon with it before really messing with it too heavily. I've decided to re-implement some of the stuff present in my original versions of this mod that does a few similar things, but on their own are much more simplistic than SRB. For now that only includes changes to solar panels, all non shielded versions can no longer be retracted and all solar panels using the default module will follow the inverse-square law. In the future this will include some changes for probes (onboard electric charge) and antennas (transmission values) to have a sense of progression. I'll also be implementing these changes into other mods as necessary when I do compatibility for them. I don't have any intention of messing with mass rebalancing of weights, part costs, drag or other such things like SRB does.

Because of MM run order, anything SRB does should run after this mod, so if your using SRB changes to the same properties *should* take precedence over mine. As it's not currently updated for .25 yet and I probably won't be running it myself any longer, I'd love some feedback on whether this actually ends up being the case or if I need to come up with a special patch or set of instructions for use in conjunction with SRB. For the same reasons, if you want to use SRB, but want my values for antenna progression and such you'll need to delete the relevant patches from SRB. When SRB updates to .25 I'll probably take a look at it and make a patch to handle this instead.

Finally I've also added support for some more mods: TAC Life Support, Remote Tech, and Procedural Fairings. I'm not fully happy with the placement of the final size upgrade for the fairings or the oxygen intake from TACLS, so expect that to probably change in the future.

Abridged changes for v .30

-Added Solar Panel Rebalance

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Tac Life Support

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Remote Tech

-Tech Tree Rebalancing for Procedural Fairings

-KSAEA Science Experiments rebalanced

-Removed modification to PresMat Barometer's cost

-Removed most balancing of total science from experiments since it's now controllable from in game difficulty

[thorfinn]

...don't worry man, i was just interested in having a sane tech tree and a Mobile Lab that is worth something

I intended to use this with SRB and Porcedural Fairings, and I'll let you know when I try... which will take a few days at least, I have a blasted report to finish. Thanks

[theonegalen]

Just curious, were you planning to make configs for more mods like KW, Firespitter, etc?

I'm currently using the tree with those sorts of mods and so I'm just going along hoping everything makes some kind of sense.

[Pirsig]

Just curious, were you planning to make configs for more mods like KW, Firespitter, etc?

I'm currently using the tree with those sorts of mods and so I'm just going along hoping everything makes some kind of sense.

Yes, that's totally the plan, to just keep writing configs for more mods over time either as I play with them myself or people request them. I want to get some more gameplay oriented stuff done first though before going at some of the large parts packs. For example Karbonite is probably next on the list after i figure out what to do with the new space plane parts. Once I get a few more of those done I'll probably hit a part pack or two, they just obviously take a bit longer to get done.

[Shania_L]

Hey I'm liking the look of this, you seem to be coming at the techtree in a similar fashion to me (and with a similar mod catalog).

I'm currently still using the mod-orientated techtree on 0.24.2 until a few more of my favourite mods are available in 0.25, but with the (seeming) death of treeloader in 0.25 I am not sure how that will hold up. If you can get a few of the most common parts packs included in this then I am sure you will have a host of interested customers, me included

I have been using an old version of the stock-rebalance, but seeing recent events I do not expect it to be made 0.25 compatible any time soon, it included a lot of 'quality of life' tweaks that were very nice to have (description changes, node position adjustments etc) did you have these kinds of things included in your patches?

[theonegalen]

Yes, that's totally the plan, to just keep writing configs for more mods over time either as I play with them myself or people request them. I want to get some more gameplay oriented stuff done first though before going at some of the large parts packs. For example Karbonite is probably next on the list after i figure out what to do with the new space plane parts. Once I get a few more of those done I'll probably hit a part pack or two, they just obviously take a bit longer to get done.

Awesome, thanks!

[andqui]

This looks very interesting- I would be really excited if somebody made a tree rebalance/rearrangement to make it a bit more realistic/challenging/logical that supports mods (unlike Better than Starting Manned, which is otherwise great). If you don't mind, here is me brainstorming about what the ideal kerbal-scale tech tree would look like, in what I see would be doable without slipping into maintainable insantity (which is what seems to happen with rebalancing packs that incorporate lots of different always-changing mods).

1. Probes should come before manned flight. This this this this this. As it stands now, there's no glorious moment of triumph in the early game when you finally manage to get your tiny, pathetic, little beeping box of a satellite that will run out out of power 30 minutes into orbit. Instead, it's just a mark one command pod, couple of fuel tanks and an engine, and you can get manned orbit on your 2nd-3rd mission no problem.

2. Make SAS less powerful and move RCS to first stage of tech tree. SAS and torque wheels have some big limitations IRL, and RCS doesn't get used nearly enough early in the tech tree (partly because you can't get them early on in the first place)

3. Solar panels less overpowered, inverse square law, which I see you are already doing.

4. Smaller engines should unlock before the bigger engines. As it is with the default tree, you get the big LV-engines, and it's only when you get to the miniaturization node that you get engines that don't massively overpower the orbital stage of a one-pod space craft. Unlike building transistors and processors, miniaturization is not the difficult part about building rocket engines, so they really shouldn't be a few tiers down in the tree.

5. Remote-tech integration, with a few configs that put antenna stations scattered around Kerbin so you can launch those early satellites before you manage to get your heavy manned missions in orbit.

Those are the big-5, that start to bother me when playing career mode with the stock tree. There are probably other bits of illogical silliness that could be fixed (aircraft coming after rockets, no launch clamps at the beginning, etc), but I would think it important to keep things sane at first.

[Pirsig]

Hey I'm liking the look of this, you seem to be coming at the techtree in a similar fashion to me (and with a similar mod catalog).

I'm currently still using the mod-orientated techtree on 0.24.2 until a few more of my favourite mods are available in 0.25, but with the (seeming) death of treeloader in 0.25 I am not sure how that will hold up. If you can get a few of the most common parts packs included in this then I am sure you will have a host of interested customers, me included

Thanks. As I was saying, the giant parts packs take a lot longer to go through but I definitely will get there. KW, FASA, AIES, Novapunch, and B9 are all things I intend to eventually get to, feel free to ask for more in the future.

I have been using an old version of the stock-rebalance, but seeing recent events I do not expect it to be made 0.25 compatible any time soon, it included a lot of 'quality of life' tweaks that were very nice to have (description changes, node position adjustments etc) did you have these kinds of things included in your patches?

In regards to SRB, I want to say some of the node fixes and stuff were fixed by squad finally in stock? I'm not positive on that, but I thought that was the case. Either way that's the kind of stuff that I feel is outside of the scope of what I'm trying to do, as nice as some of those things might be. I also don't have any intention of doing engine rebalancing, drag stuff(I always play with FAR anyway), nor all the mass removal and such.

1. Probes should come before manned flight. This this this this this. As it stands now, there's no glorious moment of triumph in the early game when you finally manage to get your tiny, pathetic, little beeping box of a satellite that will run out out of power 30 minutes into orbit. Instead, it's just a mark one command pod, couple of fuel tanks and an engine, and you can get manned orbit on your 2nd-3rd mission no problem.

The idea for now is this tree will always include manned atmospheric flight as the beginning of the tree. That being said, I would like to shift things around a bit to make this happen sort of. The flow will ideally be manned atmospheric flight > unmanned space flight > manned space flight. You can cheat and use the cockpits for planes on rockets instead, but that's on you. This also made me think just now about possibly removing the life support reserves from those cockpits if your using a supported life support mod. The limited spread at the beginning of the tree does make all of this a bit more difficult to achieve however, but I'm more inclined now to move manned space flight up a bit since people can use the in game difficulty to skip ahead now if they want by just starting with some extra science.

2. Make SAS less powerful and move RCS to first stage of tech tree. SAS and torque wheels have some big limitations IRL, and RCS doesn't get used nearly enough early in the tech tree (partly because you can't get them early on in the first place)

With spaceflight getting pushed further up the tree RCS is closer it to it now, and I think is worth looking at further in this regard. It probably won't ever be at start if that's what you mean though. As for SAS, I agree and that's probably in the cards somewhere in the future. Might remove altogether from the early flight cockpits also.

4. Smaller engines should unlock before the bigger engines. As it is with the default tree, you get the big LV-engines, and it's only when you get to the miniaturization node that you get engines that don't massively overpower the orbital stage of a one-pod space craft. Unlike building transistors and processors, miniaturization is not the difficult part about building rocket engines, so they really shouldn't be a few tiers down in the tree.

You're totally right and the first rockets were quite small and I had tried to do a bit of this at first and now don't really remember why I decided against it so I'll look at this again.

5. Remote-tech integration, with a few configs that put antenna stations scattered around Kerbin so you can launch those early satellites before you manage to get your heavy manned missions in orbit.

I believe Kerbin Side is capable of supporting this. If you scroll down to the Other Mods Support section there's a link to a post on how to add the Kerbin Side sites as ground stations in RT. At a glance it looks like the config stuff there is just adding locations as ground stations to RT, so you can use it without Kerbin Side and could also change the coords to be whatever you want.

[somnambulist]

This also made me think just now about possibly removing the life support reserves from those cockpits if your using a supported life support mod.

With TAC this should be possible by just removing the O2 from the cockpits. I think Taranis has it setup where you don't need O2 below a certain altitude on Kerbin or Laythe. If not it is possible to convert intake air to oxygen with tac's converter module.

You're totally right and the first rockets were quite small and I had tried to do a bit of this at first and now don't really remember why I decided against it so I'll look at this again.

You could add a hard dependency on RLA Stockalike and push the .625m parts to the start of the tree. Start with manned atmospheric flight and .625m solid rockets, then proceed to .625 liquid rockets followed by 1.25m, etc.

[andqui]

The idea for now is this tree will always include manned atmospheric flight as the beginning of the tree. That being said, I would like to shift things around a bit to make this happen sort of. The flow will ideally be manned atmospheric flight > unmanned space flight > manned space flight. You can cheat and use the cockpits for planes on rockets instead, but that's on you. This also made me think just now about possibly removing the life support reserves from those cockpits if your using a supported life support mod. The limited spread at the beginning of the tree does make all of this a bit more difficult to achieve however, but I'm more inclined now to move manned space flight up a bit since people can use the in game difficulty to skip ahead now if they want by just starting with some extra science.

Sure, that makes sense, I had my space flight blinkers on, atmospheric flight makes sense to preceed any type of space flight. That would probably involve moving wings, bodies, landing gear, and such earlier in the tech tree.

With spaceflight getting pushed further up the tree RCS is closer it to it now, and I think is worth looking at further in this regard. It probably won't ever be at start if that's what you mean though. As for SAS, I agree and that's probably in the cards somewhere in the future. Might remove altogether from the early flight cockpits also.

Sure, it doesn't have to be at the start. The most important thing is that SAS remains a niche technology, useful for certain applications such as station keeping and holding attitude, but not very useful for frequent maneuvering.

[thorfinn]

I think that 1 and 4 should go together: since the most realistic way of limiting our capabilities is limiting payload, and the size 1 engines are sized for the Mk1 pod, I have thought more than once about a mod that would start with size 0 engines only.

Actually I think that the only things missing from the stock set that would be required for that are size 0 SRBs, and maybe a less OP version of the 48-7S as the starting liquid fuel engine. I think I remember that there is a way to create scaled clones of existing assets just by .cfgs? Then maybe just a scaled down BACC with modified stats could be the size 0 SRB... oh, and scaled down 2-3-4 way adapters.

Size 1 tanks would be fine at the start, though. Just with the size 0 engines and a bit of creativity one could achieve manned orbit anyway. Then the first LFO engine could be the 909, and then you get the LV-T series.

On the other hand, I agree that SAS should be downgraded, like Stock Rebalance does, but no more: the underlying reason for SAS is that nobody likes being stranded because you ran out RCS fuel for rotational maneuvers

Or, well, maybe someone does like it (the TAC LS crowd, I suppose) but it tends to be veeeery unfunny.

Edited October 15, 2014 by thorfinn

[Pirsig]

You could add a hard dependency on RLA Stockalike and push the .625m parts to the start of the tree. Start with manned atmospheric flight and .625m solid rockets, then proceed to .625 liquid rockets followed by 1.25m, etc.

I really want to avoid dependencies outside of Module Manager.

I think that 1 and 4 should go together: since the most realistic way of limiting our capabilities is limiting payload, and the size 1 engines are sized for the Mk1 pod, I have thought more than once about a mod that would start with size 0 engines only.

Actually I think that the only things missing from the stock set that would be required for that are size 0 SRBs, and maybe a less OP version of the 48-7S as the starting liquid fuel engine. I think I remember that there is a way to create scaled clones of existing assets just by .cfgs? Then maybe just a scaled down BACC with modified stats could be the size 0 SRB... oh, and scaled down 2-3-4 way adapters.

Size 1 tanks would be fine at the start, though. Just with the size 0 engines and a bit of creativity one could achieve manned orbit anyway. Then the first LFO engine could be the 909, and then you get the LV-T series.

Already ahead of you, next update will have some resized parts to fill out the 0.625m size. Also already shifting some of the smaller engines further up the tree.

On the other hand, I agree that SAS should be downgraded, like Stock Rebalance does, but no more: the underlying reason for SAS is that nobody likes being stranded because you ran out RCS fuel for rotational maneuvers

Or, well, maybe someone does like it (the TAC LS crowd, I suppose) but it tends to be veeeery unfunny.

Hey now, I'm part of that TACLS crowd . In all seriousness though, most pods will still have some degree of internal SAS. The reason to remove it from the two MK1 cockpits is they're 'supposed' to be for atmospheric flight only so you shoudn't need SAS with it. There're separate SAS parts if you still want to use them to go into space later.

[thorfinn]

Agree on all counts then

Sorry for the TAC LS thing I tried it but just find it a bit too complicated for its own good...

[kpstjeev]

Neat tech tree!

Regarding resize, any plans to add support for tweakscale, similar to fairings?

[Niemand303]

Nice thingy! Gonna use it for my next Twitch series. Will there be any KW/Station Science/etc support?

[Pirsig]

Sorry for the TAC LS thing I tried it but just find it a bit too complicated for its own good...

Haha, I was initially wary of it too and then started using Ioncross LS (which someone has forked and started working on again) in .19 I think? Couldn't go back to no LS mod after that. You might try messing with kerbal snacks I believe it's called. My understanding is it's a nice, simple, one resource LS. Good way to get your feet wet.

Neat tech tree!

Regarding resize, any plans to add support for tweakscale, similar to fairings?

Having not actually looked at how tweakscale works I can't say for sure at the moment. Either way it's a bit off yet, but yes it is on my mind.

Nice thingy! Gonna use it for my next Twitch series. Will there be any KW/Station Science/etc support?

Thanks, though I'd honestly recommend you perhaps wait a bit before employing it for something continuous. Especially when it comes to the version out now since .4 will be moving things around a fair bit at the start of the tree. Yes, KW is another parts pack that I"m aware of and is on my radar for eventual compatibility. Station science may be a possibility, I've never personally played with it though and I would definitely consider it a far down the road thing.

[theonegalen]

Ok, I'm working on a cfg for Firespitter. So far I've moved the biplane into the starting node and the P-51 parts into the second node. The Sabre parts will probably go into the first Aerodynamics node. It might be a little too easy to get everything you need for the Mustang in one go, so I'm considering spreading out the parts through the Tier 2/3 nodes.

Then again, maybe I should just wait until your .4 release to mess with all of this.

Also, integrating all of this firespitter stuff makes me wonder if it might be a good idea to move the BasicJetEngine and other aero parts back to their original spot, if FS is added. I assume there's a way to do that with ModuleManager.

Edited October 19, 2014 by theonegalen

[JeffreyCor]

This is really looking great and I love the non dependency nature of it!

Theonegalen, if you do make a Firespitter config so planes start with props that sounds sounds perfect! i think there is something with a IF[ ] option in MM for entries taking effect if other mods are installed but not sure so jets are moved back if FS is installed

[Pirsig]

Hey, just wanted to pop in and apologize for lack of a word from me for a little bit. Been a busy couple of weeks and I also had three teeth pulled so I've been a little preoccupied. That being said, most of the stuff for the next release has already been done so now that I've got a bit of time to mess with it again I should have something out soon. Ideally I'd like to get it up sometime tonight (wednesday), but if that doesn't happen it'll most likely be Sunday.

Ok, I'm working on a cfg for Firespitter. So far I've moved the biplane into the starting node and the P-51 parts into the second node. The Sabre parts will probably go into the first Aerodynamics node. It might be a little too easy to get everything you need for the Mustang in one go, so I'm considering spreading out the parts through the Tier 2/3 nodes.

Then again, maybe I should just wait until your .4 release to mess with all of this.

Also, integrating all of this firespitter stuff makes me wonder if it might be a good idea to move the BasicJetEngine and other aero parts back to their original spot, if FS is added. I assume there's a way to do that with ModuleManager.

Awesome, I appreciate the initiative and wouldn't mind using your final version (with credit of course) if you're ok with that. I haven't personally played with firespitter in the past, I just knew it fit into what I wanted to do with this so i'm super open and appreciative of help on that front. Also, .4 will move the manned pods up a bit further thus giving more room to spread the initial tier parts.

As for the jet engine, it was totally my plan already to have a new spot for that when Firespitter is installed. There's no IF[] conditional in MM (Unless it was added over the last couple weeks), but it is really easy to get the same functionality of an IF statement for something like this because there is dependency checking through NEEDS[]. Basically you just add NEEDS[!Firespitter] to the original jet engine patch, this will cause the patch not to occur if Firespitter is present.

Now as I'm typing this I think about how many people have just Firespitter.dll because it's a dependency for something else and this becomes not as easy a problem to solve. The patch would also no longer occur even if the person just has the .dll because of it's use in another mod so moving it might not actually possible, we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there. If Firespitter has some separate main folder or .dll that ONLY Firespitter has, then we can use that for the NEEDS[] check instead and problem solved.

[JeffreyCor]

I just looked though Firespitter and the only DLL in the mod is firespitter.dll

[Pirsig]

Alright, sorry folks, a day later than I said, totally my bad. I ended up shuffling things around a bit more than originally anticipated but I feel like things are starting to settle in to a pretty decent spot. A whole bunch of stuff has moved around again to give a bit more room at the start of the tree before you're jetting off to the moon and integrate the new space plane parts.

I've also added in some part rescales to help make up for the lack of some smaller parts without forcing any sort of dependencies. One note on the launch clamp included with these rescales, it displays incorrectly the first time when loaded to into the VAB, but will function correctly and displays correctly on all subsequent loads. If anyone knows what's causing this and/or how to fix it, please let me know.

v .4

-Added several part rescales

-Fixed placement and scale for the Aerodynamic Nose Cone

-Revisions to the stock Tech Tree Rebalance

-Space Plane Parts Tech Tree Rebalance

-Revisions to Deadly Reentry tech tree rebalance

-Revisions to Tac Life Support tech tree rebalance

-Revisions to Procedural Fairings tech tree rebalance

Download v .40

Delete any previous version of KSAEA and I would also recommend starting a new game since so many parts have moved.

[Pirsig]

Also, the easiest solution I see to the firespitter problem is to just make the compatibility config for it a separate download. That way only those actually running full firespitter end up using it, and no one who doesn't know any better gets their stuff messed up.