How do you handle mining and resource transport? And does a mod exist for that?

[MisterBennock]

Hello people,

I just recently took up Karbonite and started toying with it and I was wondering how you manage your mining affairs?

What I want to say is, do you mine the stuff and keep it on site to distill or deliver to orbital shuttles to transport them further or do you only use it on site anyways? And if you transport, do you store in orbital fuel stations or do you use other means?

Because I just was thinking whether it was possible to make untweakable stuff (I know, Karbonite is tweakable, but what are cfg files for?) "storable" at the KSC or other bases (if you have them). My idea was going like this: You have no resources of let's say Karbonite (or Kethane or whatever you use) at your space center, so when building vessels you can't fill tanks with it. But you can then mine it, fill tanks with it, bring them back to the space center and from then on have this amount to use during building.

I haven't put much thought in this as of right now, it was just a spontaneous idea. Maybe you even instantly tell me why it's stupid. Well, then, that's all from me now.

P.S.: I don't even know whether this is the right place to post this thread, if it's not the case please tell me where it would be more fitting.

"Up and at dem!"

[juanml82]

Well, you don't need to change cfg files for that. Put a Karbonite converter/storage/whathaveyou rover near the launchpad (and another near the runway). Prepare a way to "dock" it to ships at the launchpad to refuel them (KAS pipes, the claw or docking ports at standardized heights).

Now, when you build your rockets, deplete them from fuel. Place them in the launchpad/runway, switch to your refueling truck and load them with fuel.

The problem is that neither karbonite nor kethane can convert to rocket fuel*, so those are out.

I'm not exactly sure how this works from a fun gameplay perspective, though, but it's doable. You might want to edit kethane or karbonite to make sure you have either of them at the launchpad just in case, otherwise it's a game over. I'm not sure how that's done. Kethane saves the grid definition in the savefile, but I'm not sure how to edit it so the hexagon containing the KSC has Kethane. I guess for karbonite you need to paint the location of the KSC in white?

EDIT: I meant solid rocket fuel

Edited September 22, 2014 by juanml82

[Alshain]

Karbonite and Kethane both convert to liquid fuel and oxidizer, so not sure what you mean by that.

The way I do Kethane is I have a mining ship that has just a drill and Kethane tanks and of course fuel and solar, etc. I then drill it and bring it back to an orbital station that processes it into fuel using converters. However, you can't do this with Karbonite. Karbonite is much heavier, it has a density of 12.5 kg/l where Liquid fuel and Oxidizer are both 5 kg/l and Kethane is 2 kg/l. So you can see that is not going to be feasible with Karbonite as you probably won't be able to get a net gain on fuel hauling it from the surface. Instead with Karbonite you have to build a surface base and haul it after conversion to fuel, when it's only 5 kg/l.

The advantage is you get base building if you like that sort of thing, the disadvantage is your locked into that one landing spot and must hit it every single time. With Kethane, you just have to land where there is Kethane.

[RoverDude]

Karbonite and Kethane both convert to liquid fuel and oxidizer, so not sure what you mean by that.

The way I do Kethane is I have a mining ship that has just a drill and Kethane tanks and of course fuel and solar, etc. I then drill it and bring it back to an orbital station that processes it into fuel using converters. However, you can't do this with Karbonite. Karbonite is much heavier, it has a density of 12.5 kg/l where Liquid fuel and Oxidizer are both 5 kg/l and Kethane is 2 kg/l. So you can see that is not going to be feasible with Karbonite as you probably won't be able to get a net gain on fuel hauling it from the surface. Instead with Karbonite you have to build a surface base and haul it after conversion to fuel, when it's only 5 kg/l.

The advantage is you get base building if you like that sort of thing, the disadvantage is your locked into that one landing spot and must hit it every single time. With Kethane, you just have to land where there is Kethane.

For folks that make hoppers, the usual pattern is to have the drill and one of the converters on board. Land, convert (or use Karbonite engines), move the final product to your orbital station. So less about base building and more about where you want to put a 2-ton part (though we have some smaller ones coming out in 1.25m and 0.625m form factors). So really, there's no need for only having one landing spot. And Karbonite does run out given it's concentration based not deposit based.

But RE your original idea, Karbonite works and has a pretty nice engine assortment to go with it in (radial and stack jets, engines in 0.625 1.25 and 2.5, and the sweet propfans everyone seems to love). Kethane also works though I can't recall it's engine assortment. And both mods of course have converters built in.

(Edit for completeness)

An even more common pattern is to use a tiny Karbonite drill, the smaller Karbelectric generators, and one or more of the engines (even electric props if you're in an atmosphere) to make self sufficient ships, like this one (the engine even turns part of the exhaust into monoprop)

Edited September 22, 2014 by RoverDude

[juanml82]

Karbonite and Kethane both convert to liquid fuel and oxidizer, so not sure what you mean by that.

I meant solid rocket fuel

[RoverDude]

Pretty easy to add that one in tbh. Actually, that would make for some really interesting designs where you had an uncontrollable but mass-efficient burn for a high powered orbital launch.

Yeah... I actually like that idea

[MisterBennock]

I see what you mean, though the "setting up tanks and such" would pose a problem to me, as there is still the possibility that it gets somehow messed up by bugs and strange physics. If something breaks, explodes, disintegrates or atomizes, I want it to be my responsibility and/or deliberation .

Also, on second thought, I guess it was a silly idea, concerning the mining and transport and all else.

[Axelord FTW]

I remember a long time ago that a player had set himself some very strict rules for a new game.

Basically a few SRBs and a total limit to fuel in liters (like one Rockomax Jumbo64 worth) to start with. No rollbacks.

He then had to manage a whole space program by finding kethane deposits (with hardly being able to reach space to begin with), extracting it, transporting it back to the KSC to fuel up full blown rockets with. His go was all stock so all fuel transfers had to be done via docking.

He eventually got bored and abandoned the enterprise but by that time he had landed on the Mun and Minmus.

My current Kethane base on Minmus has one extractor lander with two small drills, one 2.5m kethane tank and a 2.5m lander can (mk2) all in one. The converter lander is the same but with the 2.5m converter instead of the kethane tank. From there, a simple shuttle run to and fro orbit. My long range ships only need the Delta/v to reach minmus orbit.

I use KAS for fuel transfer now (I once used hard docking (without MJ) to stack up the extractor, the converter and the fuel shuttle) so it's much easier on my nerves. This being the third career I run on 24.2 (one stock, one with mods, latest also with FAR) I intend to remove Kethane from my next career and try out Karbonite and see how that goes.

Going back to the part about the Kethane Career this guy got going years back, I'd definitely like to have stock career modes that would force progress through play rather than research (think Reusable Career from S. Manley.). Just reading after his adventures was great and I can only imagine how much fun it would be. It's sort of a shame that resource development took the backstage at Squad. Otherwise, we could have Careers based on something else than Science.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Axelord FTW
typo, clarification