Steam Workshop

[mike9606]

I was just wondering about it, as there is a steam user (Zombo) who seems to really want it and doesn't seem to care that it is the do-not suggest list because multiplayer was on it. Really I just want to know the community's opinion on what is happened in the thread. If you have steam, you should be able to find the thread in the steam KSP discussion board.

Edited October 4, 2014 by mike9606

[tetryds]

The WNTS list does not mean every feature on it will/will not be in the game, just that it has been discussed too much and SQUAD is aware of it.

So it's not a blacklist, it is just a list, even though several of those features have been denied, a bunch are planned.

But they are not meant to be suggested for a reason.

The multiplayer feature was a very unique event, it was not denied but simply put aside in favor of the game itself until someone actually made it and showed that it actually works (better than any expectation).

About the Steam Workshop, I don't really see it as being useful at all, since we already have Curse and KerbalStuff (and any other file sharing system).

Edited October 4, 2014 by tetryds

[mike9606]

The WNTS list does not mean every feature on it will/will not be in the game, just that it has been discussed too much and SQUAD is aware of it.

So it's not a blacklist, it is just a list, even though several of those features have been denied, a bunch are planned.

But they are not meant to be suggested for a reason.

The multiplayer feature was a very unique event, it was not denied but simply put aside in favor of the game itself until someone actually made it and showed that it actually works (better than any expectation).

About the Steam Workshop, I don't really see it as being useful at all, since we already have Curse and KerbalStuff (and any other file sharing system).

Yeah, it just seems zombo doesn't like having to update each mod manually, as it takes him an hour with his 40 mods, but skyrim has workshop so the 200 he has on it don't take much time at all. He also feels SQUAD owes the steam users steam workshop, as he is saying that a mod manager was promised for spaceport 2.

[pxi]

It's a fairly involved process updating mods. I generally wait a week after a new release to let mods update, and do it all in one go. Often that's the only time I update my mods.

Personally I'd like to see workshop support added at some point. There are already a myriad of options for distributing mods, adding another one into the mix really only facilitates those that want to use that method. The only downside is mod authors not wanting, or being unable to distribute their mods via workshop, but that's not much different from not wanting to host via curse.

I don't think it's something Squad owes us as such however.

[KasperVld]

The problem with Steam Workshop is that a large portion of the userbase doesn't use Steam. In fact it's the same as Squad saying they'll use PhysX or CUDA GPU acceleration for NVidia GPUs to calculate physics more efficiently so that people who have NVidia cards could build 2000-3000 part stations. It destroys the (mostly) level playing field that KSP offers to users of all systems. The only platform differentiation I can think of that exists right now is the fact that OSX doesn't have a 64 bit executable yet. I know Squad commented that's on the roadmap at some point though.

Anyway, back to Steam Workshop: I think it would become a mess. Modders would be endlessly harassed to put their add-ons on the Workshop even if they don't want to, and I can tell you some will not want to. And what happens people who have a store version of the game? So then the modder also has to upload to Curseforge and Kerbal Stuff, and keep track of all the versions of his add-on that are going around. In fact on the flip side some add-ons may only become available on Steam workshop. I don't really think it'd be a good thing for the modders or the non-Steam users to implement Steam Workshop.

[Tex_NL]

A NON-Steam mod manager would be a much better idea as it would be available to both steam users as non-steam users.

I am one of those people that doesn't use steam. I don't have it, I don't want it. And unless anybody can provide a really, REALLY good reason to do otherwise I'll avoid it like the plague.

[Renegrade]

I am one of those people that doesn't use steam. I don't have it, I don't want it. And unless anybody can provide a really, REALLY good reason to do otherwise I'll avoid it like the plague.

I've used and own both versions of KSP - the .zip file KSP is far better than the Steam stuff. The non-Steam distribution of KSP is the one area where Squad stands WAY above almost all over developers. Standalone, movable, DLL-hell-free, Registry-hell-free install seems to be a lost, mystical art these days. (the Steam edition is pretty much the same, only Steam itself is most definitely not)

I'd generally like to keep my mods non-Steam too, as they currently embody that same spirit as the .zip KSP install...

[r4pt0r]

I use steam to update my skyrim mods effortlessly, and to abuse the frequent sales. the workshop is really great since i will never install a third party mod manager for any game.

I love steam, but i can see users not wanting to be forced to use it (I will never install origin*ea spyware* on my pc).

Anyway, back to Steam Workshop: I think it would become a mess. Modders would be endlessly harassed to put their add-ons on the Workshop even if they don't want to, and I can tell you some will not want to. And what happens people who have a store version of the game? So then the modder also has to upload to Curseforge and Kerbal Stuff, and keep track of all the versions of his add-on that are going around. In fact on the flip side some add-ons may only become available on Steam workshop. I don't really think it'd be a good thing for the modders or the non-Steam users to implement Steam Workshop.

The same was said about curse, and i believe that the switch to curse made some modders abandon modding ksp altogether. some modders use kerbal stuff exclusively and wont touch curse.

how can you do that and then say that you don't want to do exactly what you did with curse?

allow me to demonstrate:

Anyway, back to Curse: I think it would become a mess. Modders would be endlessly harassed to put their add-ons on the Curse even if they don't want to, and I can tell you some will not want to. So then the modder has to upload to Curseforge and Kerbal Stuff, and keep track of all the versions of his add-on that are going around. In fact on the flip side some add-ons may only become available on Curse. I don't really think it'd be a good thing for the modders or the players users to implement Curse.

on an unrelated note, those steam sales are great. even if you dont use steam for ksp id suggest getting it to take advantage of those

Edited October 4, 2014 by r4pt0r

[sal_vager]

I definitely support a non-Steam addon manager, preferably one that is able to fetch addons for you from the appropriate sources so they are always up-to-date, it'd need a list of known/supported addons for this.

It'd then be possible to make addon collections for the manager, for example if you want improved realism in KSP you could select the realism collection and it'd only install the addons from that list, with individual addons being de-selectable should you wish to omit any.

Other features such as addon removal should be a given, the whole thing should be a painless to use as possible and work for all players, whether they use Steam, the store copy and on all supported platforms

[Tex_NL]

The same was said about curse, and i believe that the switch to curse made some modders abandon modding ksp altogether. some modders use kerbal stuff exclusively and wont touch curse.

how can you do that and then say that you don't want to do exactly what you did with curse?

For one thing; it doesn't require any software install or account to DOWNLOAD from Curse. It does for Steam.

[r4pt0r]

Yeah, it just seems zombo doesn't like having to update each mod manually, as it takes him an hour with his 40 mods, but skyrim has workshop so the 200 he has on it don't take much time at all. He also feels SQUAD owes the steam users steam workshop, as he is saying that a mod manager was promised for spaceport 2.

For one thing; it doesn't require any software install or account to DOWNLOAD from Curse. It does for Steam.

according to the OP the reason for workshop implementation is for the effortless mod updating. mod managers usually require a download so your counterpoint is moot, unless you can point out a modmanager that doesnt require download.

[Tex_NL]

OK, yes, the mod manager would have to be downloaded and installed. But that still doesn't require me to sign up or register anywhere.

[r4pt0r]

OK, yes, the mod manager would have to be downloaded and installed. But that still doesn't require me to sign up or register anywhere.

name a modmanager that doesnt require sign up or registration?

the nexus(for elder scrolls games and such) requires that stuff, and I don't know of any other modmanagers.

Edited October 4, 2014 by r4pt0r

[sal_vager]

Pretty sure someone could make one that doesn't require it...

[Tex_NL]

name a modmanager that doesnt require sign up or registration?

Freelancer Mod Manager 1.5

Yes, Freelancer is old but it still has an active community and there are hundreds of mod. I've played Freelancer a LOT and have always used FMM. It's small, it's free and does NOT require any registration.

[Thourion]

While i can uderstand the needs of some people, as far as im concerned, i dont even need a "depot" site or .dll or whatever for my KSP.

Every link for the mods i download comes after reading about it in this forums mod releases thread.

This is were the mods are getting discussed, most of the bugs are mentioned, and most of the info particular to that mod, appear. I have no need for a "steam workshop", nor any other automatic, or even mod listing, update thingy going on.

If i want a mod, its only because it has a thread here, and i can read about it.

Also i can think back, a few cases, where the updated version of a mod, broke others, or even was broken itself. So no thanks, i like all manual mode.

If i want an informational tool that an update to a mod exists, thank God theres AVC plugin, who most moders (at least for the big complicated ones) seem to include in their work.

Last, but not least, again for my case, the "Manual" mode helps me keep any "inside changes" i do to the mod, without having to worry about keeping them in another location.

And yeah tbh, cmon, its a simple case of geting the .zip file, unzip it somewhere, and copy-paste / replace or merge. How hard or time consuming can that be?

[Athlonic]

For one thing; it doesn't require any software install or account to DOWNLOAD from Curse. It does for Steam.

Funny thing here.

It annoys me a lot to have to register and download manager software here and there.

Yet I have 320+ games on my Steam account.

If Steam didn't exist, how many accounts would I had to create and on how many different sites would I had to register to download stuff from ?

Once you got Steam you are one click away to install/uninstall games, chatting with friends/community, joining friends in MP, installing/uninstalling Mods when Workshop is supported.

Steam is definitely the easiest way to manage games on PC.

Now everyone is free to like Steam or not of course, but the above is the truth.

Also some says Steam is evil, Steam is DRM ... really ? Let me LOL at this. ^^

The only downside I see from Steam is : it makes you buy tons of games @-80% during the Steam sales, which you will probably never play

[Thourion]

Are we talking about KSP mods here? Or are we gonna talk about 320 different games with 320*X mods you are using for them?

EDIT: And just let me rephrase that a bit, i dont want to sound hostile or whatever.

Are we talking about KSP mods installation and updates through Steam Workshop? Or are we talking about Steam in general? Cos if its the latter then i dont think this thread even belongs in this section of the forum.

EDIT2: "Got busted by sal_vager" *Ruuuunnns awayyyy screaming: AAAAARGHH!!! I wont do it agaiiiiin!!!!!

Edited October 4, 2014 by Thourion

[sal_vager]

There's no need to be like that Thourion, of course there will be discussion of other mod managers, comparisons have to be drawn from somewhere.

I think this thread is a little off topic for GD now though, it should really be in Addon Affairs.

Moving

[Spartwo]

Too many people don't use steam to play KSP, the best option would be an in-built system which works the same way through spa... oh, right:(

[sal_vager]

Too many people don't use steam to play KSP, the best option would be an in-built system which works the same way through spa... oh, right:(

Hmm, maybe I'll keep this in my patch a bit longer, but I do ask that people don't drag this off of the subject of mod management for KSP.

[SelectHalfling0]

The WNTS list does not mean every feature on it will/will not be in the game, just that it has been discussed too much and SQUAD is aware of it.

So it's not a blacklist, it is just a list, even though several of those features have been denied, a bunch are planned.

But they are not meant to be suggested for a reason.

The multiplayer feature was a very unique event, it was not denied but simply put aside in favor of the game itself until someone actually made it and showed that it actually works (better than any expectation).

About the Steam Workshop, I don't really see it as being useful at all, since we already have Curse and KerbalStuff (and any other file sharing system).

Hmm... Never thought about it that way. Thanks for the info!

I would like to say some features (like in-game) achievements would be a nice touch. They could even connect it to forum accounts.

[r4pt0r]

Oh by far the best option would be a built in utility. Imagine opening up ksp, getting to the main screen and seeing a popup *chatterer has been updated*, then before you click start game you click the mods button and quick download a new airbag mod your friend mentioned earlier. *download of "rex's airbags .26"complete* pops up as you click start game....

but alas, tis a dream.

[VirtualCLD]

I do have Steam and I have used the Steam Workshop a little bit, however the games I tend to mod the most are Bethesda games such as the Elder Scroll series and the later Fallout series. I have found that some people's concerns with Workshop are true with ES and Fallout. For example, the popular mod manager: Nexus Mod Manager, support more mods than Steam Workshop, because most mod creators don't want to maintain their mod on both (for whatever reason that may be).

What I wonder about is: Nexus Mod Manager or Fallout Mod Manager or Oblivion Mod Manager or Freelancer Mod Manager are all community made mod managers. What is stopping an ambitious person from writing a standalone Kerbal Mod Manager that works with both versions of KSP. I know with Nexus/Fallout/Oblivion MM, there is always a way to take a mod that wasn't made for the MM and convert it over by the end user to make it compatible / managed by the MM. I know a fan made KSP MM might not support auto-update, but it would make it a little easier to look through your mods and see which ones need updating and install updates.

Edited October 4, 2014 by VirtualCLD

[Tex_NL]

I am 100% sure that if somebody would a proper mod manager the modding community will adapt and incorporate it in their future releases.

The same thing happened with Blizzy's toolbar. At first it was just a gimmick but now more and more mods rely on it. If it happened before it will happen again.