Squad needs to get it together.

[Cycoboy]

As the title says squad needs to get it together. This game has been out for WELL over a year and progress is incredibly slow, I remember staying up all day waiting for the space stations update to be released because everyone was so stoked about it. We haven't even gotten to 1.00 we're still at .25 and what did we get from waiting for so long? Contracts that don't make sense, a COUPLE of new parts, and a destructible space center? I mean, I understand that this stuff takes a long time but it's gotten to the point that I've not regretted purchasing the game before it even became very popular. If what you guys need is funding then you guys should be more transparent about what's going on with the game/company and start releasing dlc. Also it seems as if you've guys have off loaded like 80% of the games production to people developing mods which to be quite frank is horrible. A lot of the mods need like 5 other mods to work, then those mods need mods. It seems as if I want to put a mod here, I've got to spend an hour downloading, reading the read me's, and doing what it said only to have issues pop up. All in all everything seems to be a mess right now and I think there needs to be a change of things. Just my 2 cents on it.

[*Aqua*]

Then don't play it. It's as simple as that.

As for development speed:

Do you have any idea how much work there needs to be done? AAA games are produced by 200-500 people over the course of 3 to 5 years. Squad can't compare to them.

[Motokid600]

"Also it seems as if you've guys have off loaded like 80% of the games production to people developing mods which to be quite frank is horrible. A lot of the mods need like 5 other mods to work, then those mods need mods. It seems as if I want to put a mod here, I've got to spend an hour downloading, reading the read me's, and doing what it said only to have issues pop up"

This is.. completely untrue. What would make you draw such fabricated conclusions?

[problemecium]

o_O

First things first: 0.25 does not mean it's 25% done. Perhaps 1.0 will be a mere two versions from now.

Also, I recommend going back and playing 0.7 for a little while to put back in perspective how much progress has actually been made. KSP has already exceeded what a lot of us thought would be the scope of the finished game.

In just the last few updates, we got the long-awaited Career Mode (Science wasn't even a thing until 0.21), a complete revamp of spaceplane parts, a whole new size category of 3.75m parts, asteroid redirections, and maneuver nodes.

-snip-

Edited October 11, 2014 by KasperVld

[Ippo]

Do you have any idea how much work there needs to be done? AAA games are produced by 200-500 people over the course of 3 to 5 years. Squad can't compare to them.

This. While I agree that SQUAD is kinda slow, they are really just a handful of guys doing all the coding and artwork stuff.

It is unfair to compare them to modders, because the modders outnumber the official team easily by 100 times. Obviously they are going to release 100 times faster.

[Thomas988]

KSP has vastly surpassed what MANY space games have done. I only joined the KSP community in 0.20, and how much has changed is mind-blowing. Career mode, countless new parts, contracts, funds, reputation, science, destructible buildings, a whole new KSC, tons of new buildings, new particle effects, 64 bit, asteroids, new tutorials, and so much more, in only six updates. SIX! Squad had listened to what the players want and they have delivered, at the same time creating unthought-of additions that almost everyone agrees is awesome. If this is your honest opinion, then fine, but if you're a troll, please leave our community.

[Cycoboy]

Then don't play it. It's as simple as that.

As for development speed:

Do you have any idea how much work there needs to be done? AAA games are produced by 200-500 people over the course of 3 to 5 years. Squad can't compare to them.

What a lovely response, you know it's true and instead you've already devolved to something like that. I'm clearly not the only one that feels this way about the game, I mean I loved the game and it was a lot of fun but dear lord. I can already name one game off the top of my head that's being updated daily and it's definitely not a AAA title or anything of the sort.

-snip-

Edited October 11, 2014 by KasperVld
Merging two posts

[AmpsterMan]

OP has a right to his opinion on matters; everyone else has a right to agree or disagree with the premisses afterward. What isn't allowed are personal attacks and discussions. If you agree or disagree with the OP, discussion should be focused on the matter at hand; otherwise please keep it civil.

EDIT: For clarity of purpose

Edited October 11, 2014 by AmpsterMan

[Ikaneko]

-snip-

Two or three guys doing code and everything else and you're angry at them being SLOW?!

This game is HUGE and you critisice them for being SLOW!?

Edited October 11, 2014 by KasperVld

[nine_iron]

DAILY UPDATES?

Sounds like a nightmare! Current update rate is fine by me.

[SandyBandy]

This game has been out for WELL over a year and progress is incredibly slow

KSP has been available to the public for over 3 years now. It was free at first, and then got a very low price tag as features and content started to pour in. But that's the thing, this hasn't been like one of the numerous terrible "early access" projects that plague the indie scene today. Only comparable game I know is Minecraft - people bought this game for whatever the current build offered, because the game was full of fun to be had and well worth the price at at the given time.

That said, what constitutes 1.0 to you? As far as I see it, they could just flip 0.25 into 1.0 right now. Sure, we could do with some biomes upgrades for the planets and so on, but nothing major is unfinished to prevent Squad from calling this a full game. Compare that to the numerous early access zombie survival games that don't even have proper zombies implemented a year or two into EA (hello, DayZ) and feature only a skeleton of a fully working game engine.

I paid like what, 6 dollars (?) to play a fun rocket launching tech demo back in the day, and today I have a fun super-detailed space program game with an entire solar system to explore. Today KSP costs a lot more, but you also get a lot more, and it's a cohesive package instead of an "alpha".

I can already name one game off the top of my head that's being updated daily and it's definitely not a AAA title or anything of the sort.

I would love to know what this game is, that receives features and content on a daily basis without a few months of development put into it. Unless of course you're talking about the sort of devs that put out development builds that then take weeks to months until a stable build is out. Because you know, those exist for KSP as well, they just aren't released to the public...

[Sirrobert]

A lot of the mods need like 5 other mods to work, then those mods need mods. It seems as if I want to put a mod here, I've got to spend an hour downloading, reading the read me's, and doing what it said only to have issues pop up.

How exactly is it Squads problem when you don't know how mods work?. KSP has one of the easiest mood systems short of a dedicated mood manager that does everything automatically. You download a file, you copy the gamedata folder, and you paste it in the KSP folder. Boom, you just installed a mod

[Nahvec]

0.22, not 0.21.

[kendoka15]

While the OP has the right to his opinion, that opinion is misinformed.

Mods are very easy to install (how can you not understand drag and drop), almost never come with dependencies and when they do, they're included. (Mod Manager, Firespitter, RSS, etc)

Also, as stated by others, this game has gotten two big updates lately on top of an already feature filled product and all this from a very small team.

[Cycoboy]

KSP has been available to the public for over 3 years now. It was free at first, and then got a very low price tag as features and content started to pour in. But that's the thing, this hasn't been like one of the numerous terrible "early access" projects that plague the indie scene today. Only comparable game I know is Minecraft - people bought this game for whatever the current build offered, because the game was full of fun to be had and well worth the price at at the given time.

That said, what constitutes 1.0 to you? As far as I see it, they could just flip 0.25 into 1.0 right now. Sure, we could do with some biomes upgrades for the planets and so on, but nothing major is unfinished to prevent Squad from calling this a full game. Compare that to the numerous early access zombie survival games that don't even have proper zombies implemented a year or two into EA (hello, DayZ) and feature only a skeleton of a fully working game engine.

I paid like what, 6 dollars (?) to play a fun rocket launching tech demo back in the day, and today I have a fun super-detailed space program game with an entire solar system to explore. Today KSP costs a lot more, but you also get a lot more, and it's a cohesive package instead of an "alpha".

I would love to know what this game is, that receives features and content on a daily basis without a few months of development put into it. Unless of course you're talking about the sort of devs that put out development builds that then take weeks to months until a stable build is out. Because you know, those exist for KSP as well, they just aren't released to the public...

You make very valid points, and I acknowledge that I am making some what brash judgments, but I feel as if squad could be much more transparent in what they plan on releasing. I've got to the blog a few times and I can't ever really find any solid information. But, to answer your question the game in question is Space Engineers.

[PikachuNL]

Oh well, think about it... Both KSP and BF4 have an update every so many months, Squad manages to release an exiting new update, full of new parts and other shiny things that is very stable, almost no bugs, if there are some, they're very small. While EA/DICE manages to get out an update that is fun, but is full of bugs and still, after a year of public release, still not manages to get rid of the bad "netcode". Just for comparision, Squad has a hand full of people, while EA/DICE has around a hundred, if not more employees, plus, Battlefield uses a superior game engine (Frostbite 3 vs. Unity).

[Cycoboy]

Oh well, think about it... Both KSP and BF4 have an update every so many months, Squad manages to release an exiting new update, full of new parts and other shiny things that is very stable, almost no bugs, if there are some, they're very small. While EA/DICE manages to get out an update that is fun, but is full of bugs and still, after a year of public release, still not manages to get rid of the bad "netcode". Just for comparision, Squad has a hand full of people, while EA/DICE has around a hundred, if not more employees, plus, Battlefield uses a superior game engine (Frostbite 3 vs. Unity).

You make a good point, very few bugs which is GREAT but at the same times you says full new parts. I've been around since 2012, and the stock parts that come with the game have changed very little in the past two years. By far the largest update they've ever released wasss .24 or .22 if I'm correct? It's the one where they had a live steam and we kept asking Squad to release it and so they did a couple of hours early. That was probably the best upgrade they've released with the biggest changes and additions to the game. And thathat was before KSP really started to take off. I honestly don't even think my expectations are unreasonably high at this point. They also announced during that live stream a year or two ago that they'd add Volumetric clouds to the game, guess what? It wasn't, instead modders were the ones that went and released it. Like I'm saying if they need funding to expand their staff then they should release DLC or get a Kickstarter to get things moving again.

[SandyBandy]

I feel as if squad could be much more transparent in what they plan on releasing. I've got to the blog a few times and I can't ever really find any solid information.

Eh? 0.25 contents were revealed over a month prior to release, while the official blog has a routine feature called "devnote tuesday" were members of the development team explain in short what they've been working on the past week. Of course not everything is revealed, as devs usually don't want to raise false hopes/hype in case an experimental addition to the game doesn't work out after all, but Squad are well into the "transparent" side of the spectrum when it comes to these things (unlike most developers).

[Motokid600]

Yea and get publisher to butcher everything while there at it..DLC.. really? No, more staff will come with time. What Squad SHOULD do to boost revenue is merchandise. KSP has alot of room for good merchandise. Shirts, hats, figurines, models, mugs, etc.. There's GOOD, honest money to be made there. I for one would totally buy a shirt and a Jeb bobble head...

Edit: Well go figure there is a limited selection if shirts, mugs and even bumper stickers, but that needs to be expanded upon.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Motokid600

[Javster]

KSP has vastly surpassed what MANY space games have done. I only joined the KSP community in 0.20, and how much has changed is mind-blowing. Career mode, countless new parts, contracts, funds, reputation, science, destructible buildings, a whole new KSC, tons of new buildings, new particle effects, 64 bit, asteroids, new tutorials, and so much more, in only six updates. SIX! Squad had listened to what the players want and they have delivered, at the same time creating unthought-of additions that almost everyone agrees is awesome. If this is your honest opinion, then fine, but if you're a troll, please leave our community.

To be fair, 64 bit is very buggy, "countless" is an exaggeration, science is hardly developed, and six updates isn't that little considering the long time between updates.

Very few bugs? No way. No matter which angle you look at it from.

[LethalDose]

While the OP is just straight up wrong on a number of specific points (e.g. most mods have layers of dependencies on other mods), I agree with their general sentiment: Squad has done a crap job with the early release of KSP and relies too heavily on modders to include basic necessities, like dV/TWR values.

IMO, Squad also try to blow smoke to cover it up far too frequently. Just this week, MaxMaps claimed the reason that there's so much more content from mods than stock is because there's currently 200+ people modding, while Squad only has 5 devs. Yeah, some guy who made a banana experiment is comparable to a full-time game dev... Really?

The criticism here is with Squad, not KSP, so telling someone not to play KSP if they don't like the dev is, at best, just rude. Stock KSP is decent, but really needs mods to be "good".

I will acknowledge that Squad has very slightly improved their communication practices in the last year, but it's really only apparent because of how abysmal KerbalKon was handled last year.

Edited October 11, 2014 by LethalDose

[Cycoboy]

Yea and get publisher to butcher everything while there at it..DLC.. really? No, more staff will come with time. What Squad SHOULD do to boost revenue is merchandise. KSP has alot of room for good merchandise. Shirts, hats, figurines, models, mugs, etc.. There's GOOD, honest money to be made there. I for one would totally buy a shirt and a Jeb bobble head...

Edit: Well go figure there is a limited selection if shirts, mugs and even bumper stickers, but that needs to be expanded upon.

These are good points too, and I can only hope squad actually reads through this.

[hawk_za]

hi all

I am a rare occurrence on these forums but trust me when i say i have followed this game for a time since the days of about .18 and i love this game, have loved it, will love it and particularly love what it promises.

The scope of this game has always been huge, and for that i admire the devs, even though sometimes i feel like they get themselves into situations they not quite sure how to get out (resources comes to mind) of but to their credit they have always made a plan to get out of it kudos to them for persistence and ingenuity.

and this brings me to my main point .....fear

with the recent debacle of DF games and space base DF 9 i started to think how long has this game been in development.

and,

well its been quite a while and i know it made money in the initial stages, but i also know allot of content has been added that was never originally planed for

While i am a glass half full kinda guy i am also a realist and fear as i have no real numbers to deal with.

yes i know the devs have released statements saying all is well but so did df games

with the devs cycles seeming to be taking on the longer side than they used to and there statement that the entire design is if this is the last update so be it

so i find myself asking, nay, i imploring the dev team ....please

please

please

DON'T pull a df on us (and I'm not implying you will)

if things are not going well let the community know.

don't cover up till you cant any more.

I'm almost convinced if df had asked for help from their community more games would have been bought for friends and the such, but more importantly it would not have left such a bitter pill for that community to swallow.

I don't mean to fear monger at all but i felt a need to express that which i felt as it has been a long while since i have found a indie game i liked so much and have so much passion for.

you are on a handful of teams that has really rejuvenated and brought positive change to this stagnant games industry

having said that it is reassuring to see the updates coming out with regularity and your continued commitment to this game and its niche needs.

yours in faith and service

Fred

[LethalDose]

DON'T pull a df on us (and I'm not implying you will)

IMO, they already kinda did pull a DF when they dropped [FEATURE REDACTED] a year ago and tried not to say anything about it...

[Justin Kerbice]

Slow development process ? Maybe because Harvester promote the "trial and error" way in coding too "let's try this... oups don't work, and that.. don't work too... think for a few seconds... search internet for a few hours... try this new idea... don't work either..." ... (That's may explain some weird stuff in the code, and the mess with vessel's internal structure.)

It could be a joke but it's even not, as some things in KSP are really bad and quite poorly designed, grossly: everything is code, buildings, buildings' function, contracts, scenarii, tutorials, ...

The best version was maybe 0.23, but ridiculous career mode, kills it, stupid contracts doesn't help in 0.24, and new strategy thing seems to be as poorly designed as previous stuff according to Crzyrndm in sane strategies plug-in.

And every time, there is a bunch of brand new bugs (the big one this time is maybe the targa textures issue).

KSP could have been a lot more better, Squad have a brilliant base to make a great game, but one update after another, they just waste it, slowly but surely...

Is it a loss of enthusiasm ? Too much issues with unity ? Too few crazy idea which cannot be added because of how are the heart of KSP ?

Something seems to have been lost on the way, the vision, the goal, it more looks like "gum and belt repairs" now to try to get as far as possible, but where ?