Laser pointer and airliner

[Higgs]

I could tell from how your friend was circling above the situation, rather than getting the **** away. That is indeed the proper response to a veritable threat!

Sure, just as ripping a massive fart during take-off or landing is a terrorist threat. It distracts and disrupts crew and therefore proper aircraft operation, bringing danger to passengers, crew and people on the ground. It should at least be a felony!

Your comment only confirms what I said before: the term terrorism and terrorist act has eroded and become jaded. You really need a certain intent and ideology to qualify any act as terrorism, no matter what gets labeled as terrorism or counter-terrorism nowadays. If anything this practice makes the world more dangerous, because all kinds of shenanigans get pooled with terrorism, muddying the waters and spreading the resources and attention of the relevant agencies ever thinner. Don't get me wrong, the practice of laser lighting aircraft should be discouraged, as should any other interferece with aircraft operation, but it is far from inherent terrorism. Wikipedia still seems to get things right:

comacha you are starting to irritate me. I am going to say this one last time. Lasers = a VIABLE THREAT TO PILOTS. and as such, should at the VERY LEAST BE A FELONY ASSAULT.

[Camacha]

comacha you are starting to irritate me. I am going to say this one last time. Lasers = a VIABLE THREAT TO PILOTS. and as such, should at the VERY LEAST BE A FELONY ASSAULT.

Stating the same thing over and over, just increasingly louder, does not add any value or relevance to it - even if some people are truly convinced it does. That also means my last response still stands and holds true.

As a former pilot I am fairly aware of the nuisance lasers might cause. It really seems to be a nuisance though, as I cannot seem to find any laser related crashes, despite an average of over 10 incidents per day in the US alone. It obviously is a silly thing to do though, as this is pretty much how stranded people get themselves noticed when lost in the jungle or desert, making it incredibly easy to track you down.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Camacha

[Higgs]

there is a fault in your logic Camacha. That fault is: you claim there has been no crash as a result of lasers, and thus make the assumption that it cannot happen. That is a fault in your logic. The fact is, that it COULD happen. Heck, Yellowstone has not erupted in HUMAN HISTORY, but, that does not mean that it will NOT. We have not had a species ending asteroid impact in ALL OF RECORDED HUMAN HISTORY, but, again, that does NOT mean that it is impossible.

The fact remains that the chance DOES exist for this to happen. The fact is, it SHOULD be considered a Felony Assault. PERIOD. I will no longer reply to ANYTHING you have to say.

[z26]

If something that happened 10 times a day during years have yet to make a single crash happen, maybe (the maybe is sarcasm btw) it isn't something you should jail people over.

Dude, just, calm down.

[Camacha]

The fact remains that the chance DOES exist for this to happen. The fact is, it SHOULD be considered a Felony Assault. PERIOD. I will no longer reply to ANYTHING you have to say.

I never challenged the idea that this could happen, it just seems to be unlikely if you look at the numbers. Therefore, treating it as a felony does not seem proportional, as it appears to be more of a nuisance than a real and large threat and the cost to society of locking up people is huge in several ways. Again, I think the practice of pointing laser beams at aircraft should be discouraged as any interference with aircraft operation is not recommended. Flying has enough risks as it is without people intentionally adding to them.

Stating your personal opinion without arguments over and over again does not change the matter, even if done loudly. Consequently, silence might indeed be the best option.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Camacha

[dharak1]

There is also a chance for batteries to be punctured and ignite. Lets outlaw batteries and jail the owners and factory workers who make them. I'm sure that more than 10 Li-po batteries are punctured every day. Have you seen one break open? Sure as heck a lot more power than a laser pointer. I don't think people should be jailed for pointing lasers at planes, maybe a small fine or something but not 10 years in prison. But that's just my opinion.

[Higgs]

If something that happened 10 times a day during years have yet to make a single crash happen, maybe (the maybe is sarcasm btw) it isn't something you should jail people over.

Dude, just, calm down.

you would jail someone if they stabbed someone, or shot someone with a gun. a laser should be no different. anyone who thinks otherwise is perhaps making mockery of the actual risk here. Heck, you jail someone if they discharge a fire arm in the city in anything other than a designated gun range, because of the RISK of shooting someone. a laser strike to a flight crews eyes are no different. You are committing an assault on the flight crew. why do some people think this is not serious? it is utter insanity to think that it not dangerous, or at the least an action that does not warrant severe punishment.

@dharak1, a common office laser pointer is a weak device, but, astronomical lasers <usually visible beam green lasers> are of significant strength and take far far longer to widen and dissipate, and as such carry a heavy amount of energy. MOST astronomical lasers <which are typically the ones used by criminals to shoot at airborne objects> are CLASS III LASER DEVICES, which carry significant risk to the human eye. If you point a laser at an aircraft you should be charged with felony assault, and serve a minimal of a decade in prison and be fined no less than 50,000. You are RISKING HUMAN LIFE, and that SHOULD BE A FELONY.

The risk involved is enough to warrant a felony charge in my book. No light punishment, it should be extreme.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Higgs

[WestAir]

[...] treating it as a felony does not seem proportional, as it appears to be more of a nuisance than a real and large threat [...]

I personally agree. A felony is overkill. I have a hard time seeing anything short of turning off the runway lights on approach as being "hazardous" to my visual approach. The most distracting thing I've ever encountered during night flying is the confusing jungle of city lights when approaching cities like Vegas, San Diego or LA where the runway disappears into the mix.

The truth is that US Aviation is so incredibly and remarkably safe that the last fatal major US carrier to crash was in Queens,NY in 2001: over 13 years ago. We've had foreign carriers and regional airliners crash here, and we've also had that US Airways jet crash in the Hudson with no deaths, but outside of those we're in the safest (period) era (period) ever (period), and in my professional opinion a laser pointer has no chance, at all, of disrupting that trend.

[Camacha]

There is also a chance for batteries to be punctured and ignite. Lets outlaw batteries and jail the owners and factory workers who make them. I'm sure that more than 10 Li-po batteries are punctured every day. Have you seen one break open? Sure as heck a lot more power than a laser pointer. I don't think people should be jailed for pointing lasers at planes, maybe a small fine or something but not 10 years in prison. But that's just my opinion.

The cost of finding these people might be recuperated from then when apprehended, which could amount to a hefty fine.

You are committing an assault on the flight crew. why do some people think this is not serious? it is utter insanity to think that it not dangerous,

Would you be so kind as to explain us this incredible danger? Because you have repeated that it is very dangerous, but forget to substatiate why. Please note that the incident occurence versus accident rate is of relevance - and this seems to suggest the actual danger is fairly low. Not non-existent, as you have pointed out diligently.

You are RISKING HUMAN LIFE, and that SHOULD BE A FELONY.

Looking at the occurence of road accidents I am risking human life in a much more substantial manner when driving a car. Should I be jailed?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Camacha

[Camacha]

The truth is that US Aviation is so incredibly and remarkably safe that the last fatal major US carrier to crash was in Queens,NY in 2001: over 13 years ago. We've had foreign carriers and regional airliners crash here, and we've also had that US Airways jet crash in the Hudson with no deaths, but outside of those we're in the safest (period) era (period) ever (period), and in my professional opinion a laser pointer has no chance, at all, of disrupting that trend.

I suppose the same goes for air travel in Europe, Australia and some other parts of the world. Safety records are a little more shaky in South America and Africa, but in general, you would be wise to live on an aircraft - it is, by now, safer than your own home.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Camacha

[WestAir]

I would be more comfortable on a US Jetliner only because of the horrible politics and bureaucracy involved. This week a coworker of mine decided not to fly because a turn knob on the autopilot panel that toggles the autopilot's altitude selection from 100' foot intervals, to 1000' foot intervals, was stuck in the 1000' foot spot. He could only chose between 1000' foot intervals of autopilot altitude control. Now, he COULD have just flown to a desired altitude in-between thousands (like 4,500) and then selected ALTITUDE HOLD, but instead he chose to have the flight and the 3 flights after that one cancelled, and had MX take apart both autopilots.

The guys in the Operations Control Center were beyond pissed. They tried to get another crew in there too, but the pilot always wins in the US. Nobody: Not the government, not your boss, not the dispatcher: NOBODY can tell a pilot here to fly a plane even if what's broken isn't even important. Had this been Tel Aviv, Air India, or Emrites airline, I guarantee the guys would have flown all 4 legs no questions asked. These subtle differences make US air travel a hassle (can you imagine how many people were delayed from the cancellation?) but so much safer.

This is all just my opinion of course. I'd never cancel a vacation to Dubai just because I have to fly Emrites. If anything I'd be thrilled.

[Nibb31]

Would you be so kind as to explain us this incredible danger? Because you have repeated that it is very dangerous, but forget to substatiate why.

Numerous pilots have been incapacitated by laser beams, causing temporary blindness or degraded visual acuity, forcing them to stop working for several days or weeks and to get medical treatment. The fact that the person is flying a airplane full of passengers isn't the crux of the matter here, it's just a aggravating circumstance.

How is that any different from whacking someone's head with a baseball bat? It is assault, plain and simple. When you hurt someone voluntarily, you are prosecuted. We can't just have people going around lasering, tazing, or pepper-spraying random people just for fun, especially when those people are in charge of the safety of other people.

Looking at the occurence of road accidents I am risking human life in a much more substantial manner when driving a car. Should I be jailed?

No, but if you get on a bus and pepper-spray the driver while he's driving, you certainly should.

[Vanamonde]

We all agree that pointing lasers at anyone's eyes is a bad idea, so there's no need to get into an argument about exactly how bad it is.

[shadowsutekh]

Just one more thing to add on this at least in the United States, do not ever point a laser at an airplane on the ground or in the air, and do not ever point a laser at a police officer. Both of those are fairly serious crimes and can carry fines or up to a 5 year prison sentence.