Story Mode at 0.90?

[fairytalefox]

Some people think KSP is like Minecraft. Minecraft has what they call "adventure mode", and there is a lot of adventure maps on the Internet. Maybe something like this...

[Nahim]

Well there is another thread somewere in this forum that is already discussing the convenience of a compectitive AI player. Like in a Space race for money and reputation...

[Norpo]

To the tl;dr crowd: the short version is at the bottom of the post.

I could see improved scenario modes being implemented easily, as everything SQUAD needs is there. They could also have a bit of a story element to make it more of a story element (as you suggested)

There's already scenarios (like the mun return, Station One etc.) that are mostly neglected, and contracts. If you combined the two, a scenario with a custom contract, then it could make for some very interesting challenges.

Of course, you'd also need a way to disable some features (e.g the VAB, or maybe NOT deactivating the VAB in some scenarios, etc. depending on the scenario)

An example scenario could be, say, a Tylo lander is landed and can get into orbit. However, it would be a very low orbit. To escape jool, and get back to kerbin, you'll need to go to the Tylo refueling depot, and then use that fuel to get to the Laythe refueling depot etc. The ultimate goal would be to return to Kerbin.

example:

The Duna Mothership Mark IV is in Low Duna Orbit. Jebediah Kerman, and his crew, are inside. However, it is completely out of fuel. The Ike Lander however, had a TON of spare fuel inside. However, as it seems to always go, the Ike Lander is on ike. You must return it to the mothership, and refuel it. The Ike Lander is unmanned, so you can discard it after using it to refuel the mothership. Your contract is to return Jebediah, Bill, and Bob Kerman back to Kerbin's land, and recover them. Should any of the kerbals die, the contract is failed.

If they choose to go REALLY overboard with it, they could add things such as ordering (Go to laythe, THEN return to kerbin), or even scoring (Your score is based on time, fuel left etc.)

As it stands, these scenarios can already be made, but with contracts, an additional layering could be added.

TL;DR: Story mode could really be a set of scenarios with set goals, using contracts.

[elkar]

Why not a story mode based on realistic goals and newspaper reports? You know... goverment would start space program and... you mde first orbit run, then there would be nice newspaper report about it, then frist EVA... interview with Jeb and so on...

So you would feel like it's story, history in making.

Edited October 24, 2014 by elkar

[KerikBalm]

I feel like some of the contracts could be "story mode" in a fashion similar to storyline missions in GTA.

Sure... you can go put out fires, or drive people around in a taxi, or do some other side branch missions, but there is a set of more or less linear storyline missions as well.

Right now we have random contracts...

and we have fixed contracts that are offered based on progress - which already begins to form a storyline for your spaceprogram

(Lanch a vessel, 5000m altitude, orbit, then Mun, then minmus, then eve and duna and ike... and so on)

Altitude records (Add speed acheivement too? 1,500 m/s for example, not just the 5,000 meters then orbit)

Orbit

Explore Mun/Minmus

(side contract/mission, search for unusual features? ie mun arches, monoliths?)

Acheive orbital rendedvous

Explore Duna...

Fine print style predetermined missions... like establishing surface habitats on duna/laythe and fuel depots.

Locate surface anomolies, bring a science lab near them... etc.

The problem is the conclusion of the story.... I don't find Nova's old plan to have a good ending (teleported dead planet way off in the far reaches of the kerbin system? meh...

I would add 1 easter egg as a destination... like... vallhenge or something, and call it complete.

maybe you find vallhenge, and it tells you to search a specific continent of laythe... and you can find pyramid/henge ruins and a kerbal face there...

I'd say make duna the dead planet of the precursors (add a pyramid complex near the face?), and laythe a failed colony.

Find their last outpost -> the end

[Skylid]

Why not a story mode based on realistic goals and newspaper reports? You know... goverment would start space program and... you mde first orbit run, then there would be nice newspaper report about it, then frist EVA... interview with Jeb and so on...

So you would feel like it's story, history in making.

I like this, and then to help push you forward there could be a a small article saying

Lately, the crazy astronomer Kalileo Kerman has discovered a red dot in the sky, and panicked thinking that aliens were firing distant lasers at kerbin.. The astronomers at the now famous KSC have checked and have found that there really is a planet, and the he was not(so much) of a crazy old git after all.

[Nahim]

To the tl;dr crowd: the short version is at the bottom of the post.

I could see improved scenario modes being implemented easily, as everything SQUAD needs is there. They could also have a bit of a story element to make it more of a story element (as you suggested)

There's already scenarios (like the mun return, Station One etc.) that are mostly neglected, and contracts. If you combined the two, a scenario with a custom contract, then it could make for some very interesting challenges.

Of course, you'd also need a way to disable some features (e.g the VAB, or maybe NOT deactivating the VAB in some scenarios, etc. depending on the scenario)

An example scenario could be, say, a Tylo lander is landed and can get into orbit. However, it would be a very low orbit. To escape jool, and get back to kerbin, you'll need to go to the Tylo refueling depot, and then use that fuel to get to the Laythe refueling depot etc. The ultimate goal would be to return to Kerbin.

example:

The Duna Mothership Mark IV is in Low Duna Orbit. Jebediah Kerman, and his crew, are inside. However, it is completely out of fuel. The Ike Lander however, had a TON of spare fuel inside. However, as it seems to always go, the Ike Lander is on ike. You must return it to the mothership, and refuel it. The Ike Lander is unmanned, so you can discard it after using it to refuel the mothership. Your contract is to return Jebediah, Bill, and Bob Kerman back to Kerbin's land, and recover them. Should any of the kerbals die, the contract is failed.

If they choose to go REALLY overboard with it, they could add things such as ordering (Go to laythe, THEN return to kerbin), or even scoring (Your score is based on time, fuel left etc.)

As it stands, these scenarios can already be made, but with contracts, an additional layering could be added.

TL;DR: Story mode could really be a set of scenarios with set goals, using contracts.

That's make perfect sense! This could be made by mods?

[Norpo]

That's make perfect sense! This could be made by mods?

(see above post for what he's quoting: my previous post)

You can actually already make your own scenarios, in the saves file in the kerbal space program folder, theres a folder called scenarios.

Scenarios are just persistent files, so I imagine all you have to do to make one is simply drop a persistent file into the scenarios folder. I may be wrong though. The only thing missing would be prebuilt-vessels, and I think scenarios work like this:

Note, I may be wrong on this:

1. When you go to the scenarios tab, it shows the PERSISTENT (save) files.

2. When you play a scenario, it makes the save folder. This allows you to pick up your progress. The save folder contains the scenario persistent, and in every other way is just a new save file, as though you created a new save normally. The only thing different is that the persistent it starts out with isn't blank, it contains vessels, etc. prebuilt.

3. If you quit, you can reset a scenario (Deleting the folder). If you don't, when you play it again, it just uses the folder as a reference.

All it takes to make a fan-made scenario right now, I believe, is a persistent file, and you could place ships etc. in orbit around wherever you want using HyperEdit, or just manually if need be.

The only thing missing to make custom scenarios with "goals" is the actual goal system, everything else is there. Of course, you could just suggest a goal, there doesn't need to be an official scoring, this IS Kerbal Space Program, after all.

Installing a custom scenario is really as easy as simply dropping a file into a folder, just like downloading a mod, so it's not as though it's obscenely hard to do it at all. I could see people making scenario packs, or other things as well. I just haven't seen them, though i'm sure there are some around.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Norpo
small typo and if I don't fix it i'll go insane

[Roastduck]

I think any story mode should be contingent upon contracts and the tech tree. Let's say you unlock a few things, and you complete a contract and put up a station that consists only of a makeshift docking hub, a command pod, solar panels, and an antenna. Then you unlock the hitchhiker, and the game is like, "Hey, you have this station that seems kinda cramped. you should add on some larger living quarters." So you do, and the game rewards you in some way (maybe a higher rate of new recruits in the astronaut complex?). Then you unlock the mobile science lab, and the game is like "Hey, why don't you add this on so we can do some science?" So you do, and the game rewards you in some way (maybe slightly reduced science costs in R&D?)

[Tw1]

That was originally a plan from NovaSilisko who use to be a developer. I would really like to see that story implemented in the game.

Personally, I am happy it didn't- while lots of great games are based on the investigating ancient aliens, KSP does not need to be.

I wouldn't mind some story like elements, like newspapers and stuff reporting on your progress, or maybe providing 'speculation' that might push you on to more things, a full plot would be too far, for a few reasons:

1) A story ends somewhere.

Even a complex, pick your own ending story will reach a point where there's no more plot programmed. The end. Muck about aimlessly.

I'd rather see KSP be one of those never ending games like simcity- you may reach a point where you are no longer voyaging further outwards, but there still is more to do at places you've already been.

E.g. Maybe your base on Dres keeps attracting space tourists. Perhaps redesigning your fleet of space transporters would let you fulfil the contracts more cheaply?

2) A story shoe horns the player into doing things.

For example, what if the next plot coupon requires an Eve visit, and you spend time to try for Duna?

I'd prefer the fleshed out game to make many different approaches feasible.

E.g: Perhaps you've just landed on the Mun, and want to keep landing there.

Or perhaps you get so much funds after the Mun landing, you're ready to try reach Jool.

Rather than an exact plot to follow, story-like elements could point out the options, rather than give you a required path. Newspapers could speculate: "What will the KSP do next?"

3) Too much detail prevents the imagination coming up with things of its own.

A little info, a little characterisation is a framework upon which the imagination can build. Too much, and it switches off, limiting the experience.

There is only so much that the developers can put in. If KSP by providing just enough to get you to think, you can form your own impressions about what's going on.

4) A basic problem many games I've played where the player can move freely, yet there is a set sequence of actions to undertake, is that some things you do 'count' and others are just 'mucking about'.

Any landing that's not needed by the game to move on the story will feel less important, even if logically, there would be something to gain by doing so. Even if that thing to gain is just knowledge of what's there.

[razark]

Personally, I am happy it didn't- while lots of great games are based on the investigating ancient aliens, KSP does not need to be.

I wouldn't mind some story like elements, like newspapers and stuff reporting on your progress, or maybe providing 'speculation' that might push you on to more things, a full plot would be too far, for a few reasons:

1) A story ends somewhere.

2) A story shoe horns the player into doing things.

3) Too much detail prevents the imagination coming up with things of its own.

4) A basic problem many games I've played where the player can move freely, yet there is a set sequence of actions to undertake, is that some things you do 'count' and others are just 'mucking about'.

Some very good points here.

I've been thinking about how a story/plot mode would work for this game, and I've been unable to find one. If the devs did find a way to work it in, I hope it would be dynamic. I'd hate to see the game get stuck with a "Keep trying to do A until you succeed, then keep trying to do B, and then C" progression. I think such a linear story would get stale after the first couple of times. Even a branching tree of "if A, then B, else C" would get old, even if not as quickly.

I'd love to see an entire virtual system in action. Start off with some small start-up space programs that you can compete or collaborate with, and build a dynamic story from that. If I choose to sit and do nothing, the Kerbals continue doing what they do, another space program lands on the Mun, or builds a station, or a base on Duna. Since the game has a framework for tracking player progress already, the pace of other space programs could be based off what the player does. Classic '60s style Mun race with another program? Ok. The game notices that you've orbited the Mun within X meters of the surface, and the other program turns its focus to Minmus, or building a station. Maybe they'd go all-in and throw a less than optimal lander to beat you there; if they fail, they could contract you for a rescue mission.

[Brotoro]

My Kerbal Backstory:

Long ago, a small band of nomad kerbals roaming the eastern grasslands of Kafrica came upon a monolith. All previous bands of kerbals had been too afraid to touch the mysterious object...but this band had a BadS in its ranks. And Jebediah touched the monolith, and strange ideas filled his head. And while Jebediah went off on a bit of a tangent and started chasing around Bob and Bill with the femur bone of an antelope, Tsiolkovsky Kerman dug into the ground below the floating monolith and discovered a chest. In the chest he found the arcane knowledge of the Ancients, which he struggled to understand. The holy rocket equation. How to refine aerospace-grade alloys. The alchemy of rocket propellants. The mysteries of the celestial orbs. How-to books on building large concrete structures. There was also some mention of obscure concepts like the 'wheel,' 'electronic controls,' and 'off-world refueling hoses' that were very confusing at first, but he was sure they'd get around to figuring them out eventually if they could only get enough SCIENCE knowledge. There were also bits of arcane technology, such as the four amulets that could keep a kerbal alive indefinitely, and even allow them to regenerate after horrendous explosions.

And so Tsiolkovsky Kerman, the little known Chief Designer, spearheaded the massive project to build an infrastructure for exploring the heavens.

KSP is their story.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Brotoro

[Pecan]

Squad willing I am still intending to write an Interactive Fiction (aka: text adventure game) based on KSP so keep story-line ideas coming ^^. The original version I wrote to test the idea got quite a long way but that was prior to 0.24 and, well, so much is being added to flesh-out the career mode that the 'feel' of KSP has to reflect that and I'm waiting for 'feature complete'.

[Nahim]

Did you say IF? I scratch a little of choicescript. If you sistem are something simple i could try to help. (Im a lover not a programer)

In fact if i understood the secret arts of programing, i tryed to remake the tablegame "Buzz Aldril Race Into Space" in an 8bit Kerbal frame. That would be a amazing addictive game.

[Pecan]

Thank you Nahim. I use Inform 7 for IF because it's the easiest compiler I've ever found to work with. Unlike most it has a very convincing 'natural language' structure - unfortunately that's English and harder than a formal language to translate to work in other languages. Nice for me, since I'm English but not necessarily so nice for the rest of you. If you can work with Inform it has the power and flexibility for a lot of general computing purposes too, as long as they are text only.

This is the deltaV calculation in Inform, for instance:

"Equation - Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation

dV = (IspG)(log(Mt/Me))

where dV is a real number, Isp is a number, G is a real number, Mt is a real number and Me is a real number."

And how to use it later (changing figures as required):

"let dV be given by Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation where Isp is 370, G is 9.81, Mt is 4.4 and Me is 2.4;"

Normally though you don't do much maths in IF. Inform is best at descriptions and directions:

VAB is east of Mk1 Monument. The description of VAB is "A very tall Building where vertical-launch Vehicles are Assembled. That's probably why they call it the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB)."

As it happens I played Race Into Space last night, for a bit of nostalgia. The best thing about it is all the authetic video clips and sound files. You can get the original online at some abandonware sites, I think, or there is an attempt to rebuild the original here.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Pecan

[Caelib]

IMO, the game doesn't need "Story Mode" because that is the beauty of what we already have: you create your own story.

[Jarin]

I wouldn't mind a bit more structure to career mode, personally (though stock integration of that contracts mod will be nice). Not sure how a full blown "story mode" would work, though. Maybe story events that actually pop up as alerts instead of just random stuff in the contracts list. I mean... doesn't it strike anyone else as odd that you can just... ignore those random stranded kerbals? And how the heck did they get up there in the first place*? Maybe change how the game handles the "core" contracts (the non-expiring ones). I never did like how you had to go back to the contracts list to accept each one of those; especially early on, when you might accidentally end up completing several of them in one mission and miss the bonuses.

*Now imagining a "playboy spaceman" mission "deliver Richdude Kerman to a 120/120 orbit in a vehicle with at least 2000dv remaining" and then having to rescue him later after he runs out of fuel and strands himself somewhere. Bonus points for returning the drained vehicle too.

[Chewy]

I could see a story mode working well if it wasn't too rigid... Maybe if it had major milestones being required to unlock certain building upgrades or certain nodes of the tech tree.

I could see the space program starting in Jeb's shed with limited headroom, so you could only build a rocket a couple meters high, and his small 1-room office where he could accept simple contracts.

Would make it interesting if you had to upgrade your VAB (Jeb's shed) before you could reach space or reach orbit (because the constraints of the VAB and tech tree prevent building a rocket capable of more ambitious missions. Then once you complete a couple successful launches, more building upgrades become possible.

[KSK]

I could see a story mode working well if it wasn't too rigid... Maybe if it had major milestones being required to unlock certain building upgrades or certain nodes of the tech tree.

I could see the space program starting in Jeb's shed with limited headroom, so you could only build a rocket a couple meters high, and his small 1-room office where he could accept simple contracts.

Would make it interesting if you had to upgrade your VAB (Jeb's shed) before you could reach space or reach orbit (because the constraints of the VAB and tech tree prevent building a rocket capable of more ambitious missions. Then once you complete a couple successful launches, more building upgrades become possible.

I suspect the next patch is going to make you very happy then...

[Chewy]

I suspect the next patch is going to make you very happy then...

I hope so... I just think any "story mode" rather than being a collection of arbitrary tasks should tie achievement to progression. You start out putting pieces together out of the junkyard and eventually end up turning it into a world class facility. For example, you perform a flyby of minmus and it triggers an invester that wants to help you build a small observatory that will allow you to track planets outside of kerbin's SOI. Before the upgrade, the tracking station was the K-Mart brand telescope on Jeb's back porch, and it turns into something capable of tracking Eve and Duna. Further upgrades allow tracking of other planets and eventually asteroids, but they should only be allowed to be upgraded if you achieve certain objectives (and not just having enough funds, rep, or science, though those can be part of it). There are many types of things that could trigger milestone events... It could be events like landing on moons or other planets or rendezvousing two ships, or setting up a station at a certain location... It could be achieving a certain amount of rep or science, or it could be completing a set number of the normal contracts.

I also wouldn't mind if after you fully upgrade all your buildings and unlock the whole tech tree, if there would be further achievements/challenges that give more rep and funds for especially difficult tasks, like hauling around class E asteroids and returning from Eve. Sort of a master spaceman's checklist.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Chewy

[Dizzle]

I've been thinking that it could have a story in the same way the XCOM - Enemy Unknown has one. It could be structured a certain way, even including cutscenes, but in such a way that events in the story unfold as you do certain things, so that it still makes sense.

[FrankM]

There could be several stories in the form of contracts. Example, the Mun Community goal is to build some infrastructures on Mun and will suggest things to do by offering contracts to the player with that in mind. Another agency could focus on building a communication network. Another one to build up a Space station somewhere, etc.

The stories can be simple, just a few contracts, or full fledge one's. You're not forced to choose them since they are only contracts. Several mods could easily add new stories, and if the player is curious he will complete them just to see where it will lead to.

[sS-TALON-Ss]

I am sorry, but story mode would RUIN this game. This is supposed to be sand box and carrier. and I barely saw alpha sandbox game introducing a storymode. It would be awsome, but squad doesn't have that much people to work of cinematics. BUT IT WOULD BE AWESOME IF YOU SEE MUN LANDING ON CINEMATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nahim]

It would be awsome, but squad doesn't have that much people to work of cinematics. BUT IT WOULD BE AWESOME IF YOU SEE MUN LANDING ON CINEMATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, SQUAD did you hear that? Its time to contract Nassault for you developer's team!

[Starwhip]

I agree, SQUAD did you hear that? Its time to contract Nassault for you developer's team!

...

But Nassault's already SQUAD staff...