Simple but Enhanced Trimmer

[GabeTeuton]

Hi guys... probably you saw me post similar things in many autopilots threads here and there... the issue to resolve is simple and as follows=

The stock trim system sucks... it's useful but sucks when you need to make precision adjustments...

Situation=

I'm trying to fly a balanced, simple airplane for a long distance, without changing my altitude much... Real airplanes have 2 different systems to deal with this issue, either to set trim, in smaller aircrafts, or autopilots, mostly in bigger aircrafts, but sometimes boths, which as far as i know autotrims the aircraft...

I did tried a lot of mods to try and resolve the problem with not luck whatsoever, including=

-MechJeb

-kOS

-ksp advanced flybywire

-KerbalPlaneAP

-VertVel1.14 + DavonTCsystemsMod

- MechJeb just wobbles all around with torque ON, therefore doesn't maintain anything, torque OFF and it doesn't do anything.- (also tried the FAR dll which currently is outdated)

- kOS looks amazing but the basic commands and controls i've learnt are not useful though they work, it's the same as the stock trim system, and it only allows you to modify actual pitch, roll, yaw and not the trim, so it locks the controls to whatever you say, so you can't control the airplane by hand while locked, and if you unlock the controls you loose the ability to keep altitude, that's what the trim is for, (set it to a position but still be able to use the control surfaces). It's not an autopilot but a tool to write one, which i don't know how to and didn't found any working script to load with this as an autopilot.-

- ksp advanced flybywire gives you a better, more sensitive response but you are unable to set the current attitude as trim with the joystick axis.-

- KerbalPlaneAP is supposed to be an uncompiled autopilot which the author encourages you to compile and try, i wasn't able to compile it, and even though i could have, the author himself says the altitude holder doesn't work properly yet.-

- VertVel1.14 + Davon system s i believe are not intended for this kind of use, instead are for hovers with engines thrusting vertically rather than horizontally with control surfaces providing pitch authority.-

Request=

I would love to have a small window allowing me to manually set trim with pre-selected increments, pitch trim is the main issue here as roll and yaw trim, i don't use, and FAR helpers manage them pretty well...

In other words something like this

ââ€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬ ââ€â€š

ââ€â€š ****Custom Trimmer***** ââ€â€š (whatever title the author would like to use)

ââ€â€šSet increments ****_______ ââ€â€š (here i should type a number, which will be the increment value)

ââ€â€šPitch Trim ******[+] [-] [0]*ââ€â€š (here i should click the + buttom to increase pitch trim by the value set in "Set increments", same but the other way with -, and reset to 0)

ââ€â€šManual Pitch Trim ***______ ââ€â€š (here i can type a number to directly set the trim to, and should also be the box in which to check the current trim setup)

ââ€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬ ââ€â€š(*) blank space

Author may add Roll Trim, and Yaw Trim changers under Pitch Trim aswell.

maximum trim should be 1, minimun trim should be -1, and neutral trim should be 0.

Therefore if i set the trim to 0.5, either manually or via small increments, the elevetors should be set to half positive pitch angle via trimming...

OPTIONAL FEATURE=

It would be interesting to also have an AoA calculator for said trim, last on the windows, for instance, while in flight at this altitude and speed, for the set pitch trim, the AoA will be= whatever... This may require some help from Ferram, though i would be more than happy with a mod with the basic functions above this edit...

Once again i know absolutly nothing about programming or C, or how the game works, all i could do is manually set trim via the persistent or quicksave while in flight, but i need to reload after that is changed, which makes it pretty awful, time consuming, and useless via this method... This is just an idea and it's not my intention to get something exactly as i requested, but i guess the way i think of it is the simpler, userfriendlier...

I hope someone gets interested in this... i do know ksp is mainly a space exploration game, but it would be nice to have this tool for all those who also like to use airplanes which usually work awesome with FAR...

Thank you in advance, and of course i also would like to read any critics or ideas from people like me, not "coders", and would be awes ome to know if you would find it useful aswell, in my mind it is!

PS: this request comes from hours of flight simulator in which trim is essential, and knowing the basics on how airplanes fly irl, trim also essential...

ââ€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬Ã¢â€â‚¬

Another Approach=

I kept thinking about this, and there is another way of doing the basic features that i request that may be more eligible, as it's as i believe, even simpler...

What if someone makes or modifies a dll already in the game, the one that makes ALT + S for instance increase pitch, and makes it work step by step instead of as it is right now, which depends on the amount of microseconds you hold the key and maybe add a little GUI to show the current numbers... In other words, make ALT + QWEASD, increase or decrease trim by 0.001, currently as far as i'm concerned the trim under "CTRLSTATE" which is under "VESSEL" (in any quicksave) show up to 0.00X decimals, so why don't just make that increment predetermined, for instance 0.001, and make it work per times key push, instead of by the time the key was pushed? yeah its gonna take a long time to get the trim to 0.1, but maybe a increment modifier would work, instead of all that window i said with all the buttons... just 1 box to input the step "size" down to 0.001, and the "push once-one step changes" feature, and that's it... I tried to look in the game files for anything to do with trim, other than quicksaves or sfs files, and couldn't find anything, or anything related enough to try and open it with VS Express, (yeah i have it but i don't know how to use it)...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT 31/10/2014= this post is not valid anymore, unless someone wants to actually write a mod with this, THOUGH it's been resolved by me with help from the kOS guys and users... if anyone is interested refer to that thread!

Edited October 31, 2014 by GabeTeuton
problem partially solved (WIP)

[Starstrider42]

- kOS loo ks amazing but the basic commands and controls i've learnt are not useful though they work, it's the same as the stock trim system, and it only allows you to modify actual pitch, roll, yaw and not the trim, so it locks the controls to whatever you say, so you can't control the airplane by hand while locked, and if you unlock the controls you loose the ability to keep altitude, that's what the trim is for, (set it to a position but still be able to use the control surfaces). It's not an autopilot but a tool to write one, which i don't know how to and didn't found any working script to load with this as an autopilot.

I'm confused. When you say "the same", are you saying stock trim locks your controls? That hasn't been my experience.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Starstrider42

[GabeTeuton]

I'm confused. When you say "the same", are you saying stock trim locks your controls? That hasn't been my experience.

Those are the description of my experience with the mods i listed above, in that case it's kOS, which locks the controls as you affect the controls themselves instead of the trim, it's awesome, but doesn't have a function related to trim as far as i know... Stock trim works perfect for major trimming, but when you need to be precise, you are doomed!

[Wanderfound]

There is a serious need for a FAR-compatible basic autopilot that can manage "maintain this heading and altitude until instructed otherwise". Flying manually halfway around Kerbin to get back to KSC after an overshot reentry is a tedious chore.

This sort of autopilot is stone-age tech in aircraft terms.

[GabeTeuton]

There is a serious need for a FAR-compatible basic autopilot that can manage "maintain this heading and altitude until instructed otherwise". Flying manually halfway around Kerbin to get back to KSC after an overshot reentry is a tedious chore.

This sort of autopilot is stone-age tech in aircraft terms.

To be honest i'm not even requesting an autopilot, i would prefer a trimmer with the functions i added above, 'cause the autopilot may be buggy and dependant on craft settings, and whatever other thing it has to calculate, while the trim is as simple as adding a preselected amount of pitch while still letting you manually pitch up and down, in other words a trimmer is like a neutral position changer (in game, as irl is different, kind of a flap modifing the elevons surface), so a flyable by hand (with keyboard) aircraft certainly will be flyable via trimming. It may have issues if you want to automate everything with an autopilot, and it's certainly going to be harder to code, and update when a new release is out, at least that's what i think from my basic knowledge.-

Also to keep in mind, with a mod that let's you precise trim an aircraft, it's just a matter of reading the FAR analyzer for a given altitude and speed that you want it to cruise to, and then with the AoA given by far, just put that number in the trimmer and you are set, or put a number between +1 and 0 that will give you exactly that AoA, and you are ready to go cruising everywhere!!!!

I'm going to add as a would be interesting the fuction to show what the AoA will be at said trim set...

Edited October 28, 2014 by GabeTeuton

[Voculus]

There is a serious need for a FAR-compatible basic autopilot that can manage "maintain this heading and altitude until instructed otherwise". Flying manually halfway around Kerbin to get back to KSC after an overshot reentry is a tedious chore.

This sort of autopilot is stone-age tech in aircraft terms.

Amen to that, brother!

[erendrake]

It should be fairly easy to add trim to kOS, we are in a feature freeze right now but once we are on to v0.16 expect to see it.

https://github.com/KSP-KOS/KOS/issues/301