Questions about college degree, bachelor of art or bachelor of science?

[sedativechunk]

Hello KSP community!

I know this is off topic but I know many people here are probably aspiring scientist and/or are in the older group that have gone to school and have a career. I wanted to pick some people's advice on this subject who have done college and/or have a career now. So I am 24 years old, I've been in the website development/computer programming industry for almost 10 years now since high school! My work is picking up more (including getting hired by a nice company remotely this year!) and more but I always wanted to finish college and get my bachelors degree to be "official" and have some job security.

I'm am around junior year at Penn State (I'm a transfer student I've gone to two other colleges in the past including community) for an information systems technology bachelors. Here is the problem I wanted to ask people's advice about. I am, I hate to say it, bad at math. I am straight A student, made the deans list multiple times, and I have almost 100% in everything this year except for math. I just suck at it, or maybe it's a mental block. I am struggling in algebra alone and the bachelor of science for IST requires me to take math up to calculus. However, Penn State has a new program now for a "bachelor of art" in information systems technology. It is basically the same exact, four year degree with almost the same exact classes except they cut out all of the math courses.

Does anyone know anything about a bachelor of art vs. science, specifically for information systems technology? I've been doing my homework on it already. For one, I really just want to finish college, and I don't know if I care if I have a science vs. art degree. On the other hand, I heard the science degrees are a little more serious and prestigious than a bachelor of art, and even pay a little more. I would still be qualified for most if not all jobs with the degree, just I will lack the "science" aspect. But I kind of want to be a "scientist" and I think I would like that merit that comes with the science major.

Does anyone have some sound advice for me? This thinking started after my math midterm I had yesterday. I thought I was going to bomb it but I actually passed! I've passed two math courses already (not including an economics which I also passed). Now I kind of feel like pushing through and going for the bachelor of science. Something about an "art" degree just doesn't sound serious, but I don't know. Any advice/opinions is appreciated towards my academic endeavors. Of course, it's a bit decision and I'm not just taking advice from anyone, but I would like to hear some outsider point of views.

[GregA]

I would say... There is a lot of age discrimination in the computer industry, and things are gonna slow down as you round 30, and completely dry up by the time you are 40... Unless you are on a business owner or management career track.

On the other hand, you probably have what it takes to go into chemistry, physics, or medical and your background would greatly help you in those fields.

I say this because I had an amazing run in IT between my 17th birthday and 35th.

Anecdotally, I know a whole lotta people in the same boat as me.

[KerikBalm]

Physics and Chemistry require a lot of math....

I don't think you can cross over into medical.

My dad lasted in software programming significantly longer than 35, but still, what you say is basically true about age discrimination.

From my perspective, a BA isn't worth much in a technical field.

I'd say suffer through it.

[TheSaint]

I've been in IT for almost 18 years, and I only started when I was 28. In fact, of the seven guys who work in my department, only two of them are under 30. So, not sure where you guys are working, but my experience has been very different.

As far as the degree goes, what I have observed is that the bachelor's degree has become the new high school diploma. Employers don't care where you got it from, or what your GPA was, or many times even what your major was. They just want to know that you went to college for four years and received a degree. If you're serious about moving up in a specialized field, what you really need to worry about is your master's degree. So if you want to go places in IT, start looking around for good master's programs that match your desired career path, and make sure that your bachelor's degree program meets their requirements for admission. Then plan on spending at least another two years and tens of thousands of dollars on school after you finish your bachelor's. It sucks, but that's the reality today.

Spending a ton of money on a bachelor's degree from a private, high-profile university is a total waste of money, there are hundreds of thousands of un/underemployed college graduates who are living proof of that.

Edited October 29, 2014 by TheSaint

[Capt.Joseph Kerbertson]

Bachelors in Science... unless you want to work at a university or plan on becoming a teacher.

[NFUN]

Colbert has a [honorary] doctorate in fine art so it can't be all bad.

Really, it depends on what you want to do and what science you are interested in. From my [limited] experience in chemistry, much of it seems to be understanding the concepts and plugging in numbers. Once you figure out what stoichiometry actually means in reality, you might be able to logic out what variable goes where, then plug in the numbers. Same with gravimetric analysis, etc. Otherwise it appears that formulas can suffice for the rest of the math, and so long as you get a good understanding of concepts you might be fine. This is coming from one with only 25% of AP Chem done as of now, so take this advice with a grain of salt. I don't know what else Chemistry will entail, perhaps somebody else can inform us if it is significantly different than the basics I mentioned.

In short: If you have decent logic, memory and critical thinking skills, Chemistry shouldn't be too hard. You might able to just mix sh!# up and observe it to advance science for a while, but don't trust me.

[TheSaint]

I think you folks might be a bit confused. I think he's talking about switching programs from a Bachelor's of Science in Information Technology to a Bachelor's of Arts in Information Technology. I don't think he's talking about switching majors, just from a B.S. to a B.A. I don't think that a hiring manager is really going to care about whether you have a B.S. or a B.A., unless you're applying for some highly competitive employer like Google or Microsoft. But depending on what you are doing in IT the math may come in handy. If you want to go into infrastructure you won't need the math as much, but if you're going to be a programmer you will need good math skills. I have a friend who has written several 3D engines, and he said he was amazed how much calculus went into it.

[StrandedonEarth]

Q: What do you say when you meet an Arts graduate?

A: I'd like a Big Mac, large fries, and a Coke please.

That's an old joke from back when I was washing out of engineering some 25 years ago. That is (or was) the perception of Arts grads

[KerikBalm]

Colbert has a [honorary] doctorate in fine art so it can't be all bad.

Do you think the degree got him the job, or the job got him the degree?

*Hint: it is honorary

Which way (Job->Degree or Degree-> Job) do you think is most relevant to the OP?

[Jouni]

I was involved in a major computer science curriculum update in Finland around 10 years ago. We had a lot of discussions back then what kind of mathematics a CS graduate needs, and the conclusions were surprising. The actual contents of the math classes don't matter, as long as the student takes enough of them. The knowledge of mathematics is similar to the knowledge of programming languages: if you understand the fundamental issues, you can learn a branch of mathematics or a particular programming language on your own when you need it.

What was needed was enough mathematical maturity to prove statements and understand proofs. Reasoning about mathematical proofs is a very similar activity to reasoning about code, and knowing one helps significantly in the other.

[Beowolf]

Good news and bad news:

When I was hiring I wouldn't have cared at all which degree you had, or from what school.

But... I'd hit you with a realistic math problem during the interview, and made you talk out loud as you worked through the problem. How you handled that was a major factor in whether you got hired. Job was an entry-level analyst position that involved stress-testing and identifying bottlenecks in client-server web applications.

What was needed was enough mathematical maturity to prove statements and understand proofs. Reasoning about mathematical proofs is a very similar activity to reasoning about code, and knowing one helps significantly in the other.

Well said! I agree completely.

sedativechunk, this advice helped my son when he was having trouble with algebra so I'll pass it along, modernized: The thing about math is, it's just another game, like chess or KSP. What's different of-course, is it isn't entertaining! But it still works the same way. You learn 100 new rules that seem completely arbitrary at first. And then, quite suddenly, you discover you can put those rules together and your Kerbals are standing on the Mun! But you have to get over that first hump without a game making the lessons go down easier. Just memorize the damned things, backwards and forwards. Choke them down and trust me that when you've memorized enough of them, they suddenly become very useful tools.

I hope that came across as helpful rather than condescending. Good luck!

Edited November 4, 2014 by Beowolf