If we were to return to the moon.

[Brethern]

Preaching to the choir I know but I was just thinking about what kinds of things would have to be considered.

The last time we were to the moon most of the news and coverage of it was done by newspaper, radio, and TV. Once the novelty of it wore off most people didn't care. I'm wondering since we have the internet would that be enough to keep the interest up? If it was would would be the way to give information? would they be able to "livestream" video on a streaming site and provide free access to the pics and videos?

Secondly, what would the mission types be? the last time we sent men their stay time was lower than their travel time, which in my book is a waste. To me the missions should be a week to two weeks minimum with the intent to have a permanent base established?

Finally what would the objectives be? this is the question I'm having a hard time figuring out, in a two week mission we'd have more of a chance to collect more detailed samples, and perhaps perform more detailed surveys?

But would that be enough to justify a mission? most experiments that would be done on the moon can be done on the ISS. Aside from giving a real shake down of long term stay hardware and the feasibility of a colony I really don't know what else could be done.

I'd be interested in hearing others opinions.

[Bill Phil]

A lunar base would be useful for low gravity tests on humans and animals, but so are centrifuges...

Resources.

There's a type of resource costing a thousand dollars per GRAM. I'm quite sure it's fairly abundant on the moon.

Definite profit could be made.

[lincourtl]

Two words: planetary science.

[RamboRoth]

Regardless of what happens there....I hope to see a moon landing in my lifetime.

[Brethern]

A lunar base would be useful for low gravity tests on humans and animals, but so are centrifuges...

Resources.

There's a type of resource costing a thousand dollars per GRAM. I'm quite sure it's fairly abundant on the moon.

Definite profit could be made.

You mean Helium 3 right?

I think in order for this to happen, people would have to see that helium is needed.

[rodion]

in my opinion the moon (hard not to write mun, sometimes...) is the ultimate sandbox for working out the details of how to support medium-long-term human habitation on a fairly remote and hostile solar system body - testing life support and recycling facilities, deploying living space modules, engaging in the "basic" (read: complex) maintenance required to keep a base working, deploying and utilizing full-size laboratories, etc., but with the handy corollary of being close enough to earth that it's possible to launch routine supply missions or an emergency abort in a relatively short-notice and practical way. i see it as a logical step up from the grand experiment of the ISS, which has been and continues to be a fantastic platform for learning how to keep a crew of people healthy and happy over long periods in space, but as it's only in low orbit it's not exactly huge leap from earth-boundedness. if anyone's half-serious about launching manned missions to mars i think the learning experience of conquering the moon is a very necessary step towards that goal.

[Ralathon]

You mean Helium 3 right?

I think in order for this to happen, people would have to see that helium is needed.

If we want helium 3 for whatever reason, mining the moon is a terrible way to get it.

You can make helium 3 by irradiating Lithium 6 right here on earth. Strip mining the moon for the stuff is like farming on mars because you want a sandwich.

The main reason to go back to the moon is science. If we need materials for in situ resource utilization or space based construction the asteroids are a better bet, they don't take 2km/s to get into orbit and are much richer in useable materials.

[Bill Phil]

You mean Helium 3 right?

I think in order for this to happen, people would have to see that helium is needed.

No. It's some sort of solenoid for computers.

[meve12]

I don't recall water ice being a very good solenoid.

[KSK]

A lunar base would be useful for low gravity tests on humans and animals, but so are centrifuges...

Resources.

There's a type of resource costing a thousand dollars per GRAM. I'm quite sure it's fairly abundant on the moon.

Definite profit could be made.

You still need to ship an awful lot of material just to cover the costs of your launch. Using the Falcon 9 as an example, apparently the 2011 quoted price was $54 million per launch. So you need to extract, refine, and send back 54 kg of the stuff just to break even on the cost of a fairly modest launch vehicle.

There could well be profit to be made, but the capital investment and timescales involved in realising that profit would, I think, scare most investors off right now. Which isn't to say it's never going to happen, but I don't think it's going to be first on the list of successful commercial ventures in space.

My bet? Water and (more speculatively) rock - doesn't really matter what kind. Asteroids are a feasible source of both, and both can be used to bootstrap more complex orbital infrastructure. Water can be used for drinking, washing, growing stuff, propellant and shielding. Rock can be used for shielding and building. A hollowed out asteroid isn't quite as elegant as the ISS but it'll make decent enough living quarters, with nice thick walls for insulation and shielding. Water is heavy enough that launching it from Earth is a necessary nuisance, and I don't think any sane person would launch rock from Earth.

[fenderzilla]

A lunar base would be really useful in training people for mars; they could get accustomed to living in isolation and a zero-g environment. also, with good space infrastructure, sending people to a moon base could cost very little. Take an SSTO to a low earth orbit bus station, then take the space-bus to a station in Lunar orbit. then you could take another SSTO down to the moon base. no extra stages, the only cost is training, prep, and fuel.

[Brethern]

A lunar base would be really useful in training people for mars; they could get accustomed to living in isolation and a zero-g environment. also, with good space infrastructure, sending people to a moon base could cost very little. Take an SSTO to a low earth orbit bus station, then take the space-bus to a station in Lunar orbit. then you could take another SSTO down to the moon base. no extra stages, the only cost is training, prep, and fuel.

We'd also be gaining jobs and other useful things.

Today the way the world is is just like it was back in 1968, we need something to give hope to people.

[Dkmdlb]

You'd be smearing jobs around, but it's not clear that there would be a net gain.

[kStrout]

You build a lunar mining base, then you can import stuff to orbit really really cheaply. So then you can build space colonies.

[Wanderfound]

You build a lunar mining base, then you can import stuff to orbit really really cheaply. So then you can build space colonies.

...if you ignore the cost of creating and maintaining the lunar base. Even fifty years post Apollo, sending things to the Moon is not easy, reliable or cheap. Sending enough stuff to the Moon to maintain a long-term human presence would require an investment on a major planetary commitment level.

There is some scientific justification for expending the resources to send unmanned rovers to the Moon (as the Chinese have recently done), but there is very little justification for sending people there.

[steve_v]

No. It's some sort of solenoid for computers.

Huh? I haven't seen a solenoid in a computer outside a museum.

[Tommygun]

No. It's some sort of solenoid for computers.

Selenium maybe? It's a rare element used for semiconductors.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Tommygun

[Bill Phil]

Can a mod please lock this thread? Nobody's on topic anymore... Either that or move all unrelated posts to a thread about Nuclear Winter.

Please. I'm not the guy who posted the thread, but it needs to end if it goes on with people not talking about the moon that much.

[sal_vager]

Yeah hold on I'll clean it up.

Edit:

Sorted

Edited November 8, 2014 by sal_vager