kerbal dimorphisms

[Camacha]

"But isnt child labor illegal?"

Quote from ... ?

No idea, to be honest. I was not talking about kids either. Or am I missing some obvious point?

[LitaAlto]

"But isnt child labor illegal?"

Quote from ... ?

No idea, to be honest. I was not talking about kids either. Or am I missing some obvious point?

You meant "minor" as in "person under the age of majority". You spelled it "miner" as in "person who works in a mine."

And here I am, spoiling jokes since before Jebediah first blew up.

[LitaAlto]

OK, I may as well weigh in, and come out at the same time.

I'm a transgender woman, and in reckoning with who and what I am I have had to dig a little deeper into biology than most people. That said, I'm still a layperson, so please take this with a grain of salt.

I'm all for representation, and therefore in favor of seeing more feminine Kerbals in the game.

But the ideas of what makes one more feminine are still skewed, really.

Much of this thread brings up differences in physiology that are ultimately based on averages, not hard-and-fast categories. That includes reproductive dimorphism.

Contemporary biology--college-level and higher--only considers one factor in determining which member of a species is "male" and which is "female"--the size of the gamete, or reproductive cell. Females, by this standard, have larger gametes. EVERYTHING ELSE is widely variable.

Add to this that human beings have far less dimorphism than other species. There are larger deviations of body size and type within a gender than there are between genders. Androgyny is far from uncommon. And the ways in which dimorphism does express itself in humans tend to be pretty unique to humans. Only humans and a few domesticated species have large mammary glands--the rest of mammals get along fine with having just enough to feed their current children.

As for reproductive organs, without going into forum-rule violations, let's just say that it's not as simple as either-or, although for most people they won't ever know if they fall outside the norms.

That said--this game ultimately reflects humans and the way we look at the world.

A game in which there is no reproduction breaks nobody's heart, I'd hope. (If that DOES break your heart, go find an old copy of Space Colony and pretend everyone in the game is half-height and green.)

But a game in which there is no room for gender will inevitably alienate people--especially if the default still resembles the male gender.

My only wish is that, somehow, there remains room for more than two genders in the game. Even if it's solely through mods. If you gotta define gender, you may as well do so in a way that allows more options.

I'd really rather not click "F" and get different chest dimensions and that godawful pink blush they have in the Kerbalizer. I'd rather be able to customize a Kerbal's body and appearance as suits me, pick pronouns, and leave it at that.

Knowing that's not very likely, I just want Kerbals that look more like me, without making me feel less valued as a KSP player.

[Frozen_Heart]

I still think we should just wait and see what the devs come up with. They've stated its being worked on.

[LitaAlto]

I still think we should just wait and see what the devs come up with. They've stated its being worked on.

Oh, I'm quite aware. But discussions like this will keep cropping up, even after the "girlbal" (ick) project is completed. So I thought I'd lay out my understanding in hopes it can help moderate, or at least give perspective to, the discussion.

If I wanted to REALLY complicate things, I would have advocated for reproductive trimorphism among Kerbals.

[KerbMav]

You meant "minor" as in "person under the age of majority". You spelled it "miner" as in "person who works in a mine."

And here I am, spoiling jokes since before Jebediah first blew up.

And I quoted it wrong too ...

[tg626]

They look like this:

Dunbree Kerman

[crubs]

They look like this:

Dunbree Kerman

We could learn from the "Are you serious?" meme.

[LitaAlto]

And I quoted it wrong too ...

...You lost me.

[Camacha]

You meant "minor" as in "person under the age of majority". You spelled it "miner" as in "person who works in a mine."

I spelled it miner because I meant miner, not minor. I said I was not talking about kids. A female miner looks a lot like a male miner. Or a road worker, or a firefighter, or a scientist. Working people look a lot alike, male or female. It's generally only when dress becomes less functional and more cultural that differences start to surface. Maybe it has to do with competence too - when you are good at what you do you care less about how you look or have less to prove by how you look - but that is a bit of a hazardous train of thought.

Sorry for the watermark:

Edited November 6, 2014 by Camacha

[Tw1]

I spelled it miner because I meant miner, not minor. I said I was not talking about kids. A female miner looks a lot like a male miner. Or a road worker, or a firefighter, or a scientist. Working people look a lot alike, male or female.

Only when looking from a distance.

I'm surprised this image hasn't popped up in this thread yet.

[Camacha]

Only when looking from a distance.

I would not call the picture I posted a distance, to be honest. You often have to take a long, hard look to pick out the female soldier or firefighter.

I'm surprised this image hasn't popped up in this thread yet.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2296/comparisonm.jpg

I am not too sure those narrower hips are going to do Kerbals much good, with their heads and all.

[Kryten]

I am not too sure those narrower hips are going to do Kerbals much good, with their heads and all.

Weirdly the males in turn have much wider hips than you'd expect. Do the females actually give birth, or are kerbals like seahorses?

[Camacha]

Weirdly the males in turn have much wider hips than you'd expect. Do the females actually give birth, or are kerbals like seahorses?

They don't seem to have nipples or breasts, so that opens up a whole lot of reproductive methods other than live birth.

[Kryten]

Plenty of fish and lizards give live birth, and you won't find nipples on any of those. Conversely, Monotremes produce milk (even if they don't quite have true nipples) but lay eggs.

[Camacha]

Plenty of fish and lizards give live birth, and you won't find nipples on any of those. Conversely, Monotremes produce milk (even if they don't quite have true nipples) but lay eggs.

Without knowing anything about the habits of creatures it is hard to say anything useful, especially when it comes to imaginary creatures. You can apply some very basic rules about land living creatures, but that is about it.

[crubs]

Only when looking from a distance.

I'm surprised this image hasn't popped up in this thread yet.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2296/comparisonm.jpg

Wow, I haven't seen that picture before, that's quite well done. I hope female kerbals will resemble that when they come out.

[The_Rocketeer]

I thought Jeb was a girl and Bill and Bob were boys.

[RainDreamer]

I always thought the kerbals are unisexual plant people. They can sustain themselves through photosynthesis, they are radiation resistant, and they multiply very fast. Maybe their evolution skip all that sexual dimorphism and the whole mating process. They just reproduce by themselves.

Maybe the way they produce is to simply be splattered into a million pieces, and each pieces will one day grow into a full kerbal by time. That is why they have this space program, sending themselves to other planets and kerbin to be splattered when the rocket inevitably explode and grow more kerbal.

[Deadpangod3]

considering their wearing a spacesuit, i dont think you'd really be able to tell the difference except for a more rounded head and longer hair, so all the devs would really have to do is make a list of female names and making a kerbal have a chance of spawning as a female and receiving a name from said list, then use a different head texture.