[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[pjf]

What part packs do you guys recommend for a newly started RO player?

Well, not exactly new; but it's been sufficiently long I can't remember the parts/packs I used last time.

That depends on how much memory you've got kicking around.

I play RP-0 career mode, and have AIES, Chatterer, DMagicOrbitalScience, FASA, RemoteTech, SCANsat, SXT, UniversalStorage, and VenStockRevamp all installed as well-supported RO/RP-0 parts packs.

(I run in x64 Linux, and so have no need to keep to a 4GB limit, either.)

~ pjf

[Oksbad]

That depends on how much memory you've got kicking around.

I play RP-0 career mode, and have AIES, Chatterer, DMagicOrbitalScience, FASA, RemoteTech, SCANsat, SXT, UniversalStorage, and VenStockRevamp all installed as well-supported RO/RP-0 parts packs.

(I run in x64 Linux, and so have no need to keep to a 4GB limit, either.)

~ pjf

A question about RP-8 career mode. When are the stretchy tanks supposed to appear on the tech tree? They don't seem to be there in the initial node.

[Kitspace]

I thought they are there from the beginning just they are limited in sizes and shapes until some point?

[Friedrich Nietzsche]

Friedrich Nietzsche: Cool. For the next bit: They're meant for RP-0, so they're balanced by when you can unlock them and by cost, as well as between comparably-teched units regarding mass and wattage. They generally sort into two classes, however, guidance rings for LVs (large, support lots of mass, heavy (but light compared to supported mass), draw lots of power) and probe avionics (lighter, smaller, don't support much mass but don't draw much power). The octo2 that you presumably used is 1960-equivalent technology, so it'll be very bad compared to pretty much anything else. 15 charge/min is 250 watts--not a ton, but not nothing either. However, you just gave me an excellent idea.

Yeah, I've used the octo2 (first) which can control 0.2 tons with 3.0 EC/min. After upgrading RP-0, the octo2 was way too small, so I've added a Able/Delta Avionics Package, which still is quite small, but uses 60 EC/min to control 8 tons of mass. What made me suspicious, is that the even larger ones for 12 tons (Agena Avionics & Agena D) again have just a power consumption of 15. But these are way to oversized (dimensions and power) for my satellite. While the smaller ones are far to weak to control a satellite with about 2 tons of mass, like mine.

Also 60 EC is quite a lot, at least for my taste. It's much more than any sattelite built by me so far consumes, even though I've mounted 20 Commutron D and a dish-antenna on them. I've had to unlock some none-RP-0 solar panels, so that six of them are just capable (1.2 times the output of the consumption) to feed the Delta Avionics Packes and the rest of the mounted stuff. If the sattelite has a bad angle to the sun, it's still not enough.

The even larger ones for rockets (Guidance Unit (early)) again use only 3, or 60 and 120 EC/min. But for those I dont really care much, since they are used in the ascent stages, which usually aren't carried around for hours or longer.

For me it looks like an imbalance at the moment. But if you tell me, that they are balanced, or that this avionic packages even have some real counterparts with the same specifications, I'm gonna live and play with it. But at least an option to deactivate the avionic units would be nice. The larger one could be used for steering and would be switched of, when the satellite reaches it's final orbit. While a smaller one keeps on working, doing the signal processing job for little EC/min.

BTW: We can continue this discussion in the RP-0 thread if you like. Since this hasn't to do much with realism overhaul.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Friedrich Nietzsche

[Kitspace]

I have recently found out that redundant vernier thrusters were removed from the upper stage of the man rated Titan II.

Does it mean that the early versions had them? I did not find anything like it in game and actually do not remember seeing how did it look like.

What means of attitude control including roll axis control did the early and the manned stages use?

And another question for Nathan.

The Gemini attitude thrusters behave quite weirdly again.

It is not the same kind of behaviour that all the thrusters had before you tweaked the minimal thrust for effects to appear.

However they do fire noticeably different in opposite directions or only fire in one of the two directions.

Or the thruster intensity varies with inputs on a different axis.

The capsule attitude seems to be controled normally however. Also there seems to be a difference whether the input is manual or from an autopilot.

I doubt that a lot of such thrusters can throttle but even if they could what they do here seems irrational.

For example the capsule is flying in space normally.

I give the left yaw commnand the applicable thrusters instantly fire and the capsule accelerates in that direction.

Then I give the opposite right yaw command the capsule also accelerates in that direction perfectly normally but the thrusters do not fire.

Or maybe they think that they do not fire strong enough for the effect but they do apply normal torque in fact.

However again they do not seem to get stuck in either on or off position like they did before the bugfix.

What can the problem here be?

Thank you!

[Sakai]

That depends on how much memory you've got kicking around.

I play RP-0 career mode, and have AIES, Chatterer, DMagicOrbitalScience, FASA, RemoteTech, SCANsat, SXT, UniversalStorage, and VenStockRevamp all installed as well-supported RO/RP-0 parts packs.

(I run in x64 Linux, and so have no need to keep to a 4GB limit, either.)

~ pjf

Problem with AIES is that you end up... Well. As someone told me "cheating" because of it not being configured properly for RO/RP-0

[Oksbad]

What's considered the edge of space for RO? 70km is stock, RO is about 150km ish?

[NathanKell]

Friedrich Nietzsche: Replied on the RP-0 thread.

Kitspace: I assume that means that early versions had them. They were redundant because the LR-91 controlled roll via gimbaling its turbopump exhaust (not yet modeled in RO on any engine except the X-405, but we'll get there).

The issue with RCS spasming appears to be an issue with MechJeb's PID. I'll take it up with Sarbian when I see him next. However, as for not being able to arrest a maneuver, I have not experience that at all. We'll check it out.

Oksbad, RSS sets the edge of Earth's atmosphere to be 130km--that's about where you experience one Pascal of dynamic pressure from an interplanetary reentry.

[Oksbad]

I'm having some trouble and I'm not sure if it's user error or a bug. My engines seem to randomly and suddenly shut down or dramatically reduce their thrust on ascent. Is that excepted behavior?

EDIT: Ah, nevermind. I found the engine burn reliability statistic. I was well over the design limit.

EDIT 2: Actually, I still have a problem. Sometimes my stage 1 engines fail to initially ignite. Is that a feature? If so, how can it be prevented?

Edited March 23, 2015 by Oksbad

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

Hey all, anyone know where I can find a good tutorial for manned reentry? So far if I just leave the capsule to descend like a sample return probe, at about 60km the capsule hits a vertical velocity of about 160m/s and the temps climb to 1200, then boom! Any advice would be welcome(this is the mk1 1-man capsule btw.)

EDIT: This is when going from a stable 220*220km orbit to a return orbit of 140*105km and just letting atmospheric drag do the job.

EDIT 2: Also has anyone else had the Sepratron firing animation play permanently as soon as the flight scene loads?

Edited March 23, 2015 by A_Burnt_Rodent

[-Velocity-]

I'm having a few RCS bugs. Frequently, not all of the RCS thrusters are firing (though as search of this thread says that they are ALL firing, it's just a graphics glitch that's making the plumes not disappear). Another problem I encounter is that sometimes, my RCS thrusters will not STOP firing! I can have Smart A.S.S. turned off, SAS turned off, be not touching the computer at all, and I have no game controllers (joysticks, pedals, etc.), but the moment I flip on RCS, all the thrusters will start firing continuously in a direction. It's like there's a "ghost input" in the RCS system. And yes, they are actually firing, it's not a graphics glitch- my velocity is continuously changing and propellant is being consumed. If I restart KSP, the problem disappears. Anyway, these aren't game-breaking problems, just annoying problems from time to time. Anybody else seen this?

Also, I have another, unrelated question- do any tanks exist for liquid hydrogen that don't boil off? I tried the procedural fuel tanks, cryogenic version, and I was still getting hydrogen boiling off, but a much reduced rate. I'm asking because I'm beginning to think about doing Mars missions, and I'll need liquid hydrogen that doesn't boil off for my NTRs... right?

- - - Updated - - -

Hey all, anyone know where I can find a good tutorial for manned reentry? So far if I just leave the capsule to descend like a sample return probe, at about 60km the capsule hits a vertical velocity of about 160m/s and the temps climb to 1200, then boom! Any advice would be welcome(this is the mk1 1-man capsule btw.)

EDIT: This is when going from a stable 220*220km orbit to a return orbit of 140*105km and just letting atmospheric drag do the job.

EDIT 2: Also has anyone else had the Sepratron firing animation play permanently as soon as the flight scene loads?

Which capsule? You need a heat shield on the 3-man command pod. The 1-man command pod is the only one that has an integrated heat shield.

In answer to your second question, it hasn't happened to me.

Edited March 23, 2015 by |Velocity|

[Sakai]

I'm having a few RCS bugs. Frequently, not all of the RCS thrusters are firing (though as search of this thread says that they are ALL firing, it's just a graphics glitch that's making the plumes not disappear). Another problem I encounter is that sometimes, my RCS thrusters will not STOP firing! I can have Smart A.S.S. turned off, SAS turned off, be not touching the computer at all, and I have no game controllers (joysticks, pedals, etc.), but the moment I flip on RCS, all the thrusters will start firing continuously in a direction. It's like there's a "ghost input" in the RCS system. And yes, they are actually firing, it's not a graphics glitch- my velocity is continuously changing and propellant is being consumed. If I restart KSP, the problem disappears. Anyway, these aren't game-breaking problems, just annoying problems from time to time. Anybody else seen this?

Also, I have another, unrelated question- do any tanks exist for liquid hydrogen that don't boil off? I tried the procedural fuel tanks, cryogenic version, and I was still getting hydrogen boiling off, but a much reduced rate. I'm asking because I'm beginning to think about doing Mars missions, and I'll need liquid hydrogen that doesn't boil off for my NTRs... right?

I can agree on the RCS bug. I have the same problem.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Sakai

[Kitspace]

Nathan:

The trick is that this engine did not change between the early and the manned versions of the rocket as far as I know.

And another thing is that I did not see any other description of these verniers other than just mentionings. Also I did not see anything like this in Orbiter.

However that particular Wikipedia article mentions their presence.

Weird.

X-405?

Regarding the thrusters I think I did not make it clear.

I am knocking the wood but unlike the other posters here I did not experience any controlability issues.

This appears to be a visual issue. The thrusters exhaust effect is sometimes present and sometimes it is not or only partially present.

[Gaugeforever]

Quick qeustion,

For the realistic reaction wheels, does anyone know the RO values for @PitchTorque, @YawTorque, and @RollTorque?

[-Velocity-]

Nathan:

The trick is that this engine did not change between the early and the manned versions of the rocket as far as I know.

And another thing is that I did not see any other description of these verniers other than just mentionings. Also I did not see anything like this in Orbiter.

However that particular Wikipedia article mentions their presence.

Weird.

X-405?

Regarding the thrusters I think I did not make it clear.

I am knocking the wood but unlike the other posters here I did not experience any controlability issues.

This appears to be a visual issue. The thrusters exhaust effect is sometimes present and sometimes it is not or only partially present.

I'm talking about an entirely separate problem where the thrusters are continuously thrusting, consuming fuel, any time RCS is turned on. I'm getting this problem more and more frequently too, maybe it has to do with part count?

[pjf]

Hey all, anyone know where I can find a good tutorial for manned reentry? So far if I just leave the capsule to descend like a sample return probe, at about 60km the capsule hits a vertical velocity of about 160m/s and the temps climb to 1200, then boom! Any advice would be welcome(this is the mk1 1-man capsule btw.)

EDIT: This is when going from a stable 220*220km orbit to a return orbit of 140*105km and just letting atmospheric drag do the job.

That sounds pretty reasonable. You can always raise your perigee if you're happier with a slower and more gentle reentry. Making sure you don't have any extra mass is a good idea (if you've got heavy science instruments hanging off the side, you won't decelerate as fast in the upper atmosphere, and hit problems in the lower). Having a temperature of 1200°C sounds like your heat-shield is completely ablating (I can't remember when it undergoes pyrolysis, but I think it's about 800°C). If you don't have a heat-shield, then that's your problem.

EDIT 2: Also has anyone else had the Sepratron firing animation play permanently as soon as the flight scene loads?

YES!! I experienced this after installing Ven's Stock Replacement to an existing game, and I've still not found any solutions. If you find one, I'd *love* to know about it!

~ pjf

- - - Updated - - -

Quick qeustion,

For the realistic reaction wheels, does anyone know the RO values for @PitchTorque, @YawTorque, and @RollTorque?

Right now the "realistic wheels" still aren't very realistic. They're providing between 0.1 and 0.5 kNm of torque, which is pretty huge given the rest of their stats. The ISS has control moment gyros (CMGs) which weigh 272kg each, and provide only 0.258 kNm of torque. Here's some of the discussion on github, but the short of it is that the wheels are overpowered when it comes to torque per unit weight. (They're probably somewhat accurate when it comes to electricity consumption, if we assume they use modern techniques.)

- - - Updated - - -

What's considered the edge of space for RO? 70km is stock, RO is about 150km ish?

There's a wiki page for all the altitudes (FlyingHigh, FlyingLow, InSpaceHigh, InSpaceLow) in RSS. Enjoy!

[Gaugeforever]

Right now the "realistic wheels" still aren't very realistic. They're providing between 0.1 and 0.5 kNm of torque, which is pretty huge given the rest of their stats. The ISS has control moment gyros (CMGs) which weigh 272kg each, and provide only 0.258 kNm of torque. Here's some of the discussion on github, but the short of it is that the wheels are overpowered when it comes to torque per unit weight. (They're probably somewhat accurate when it comes to electricity consumption, if we assume they use modern techniques.)

Is that the units KSP uses or is there some conversion needed in order to set those values?

[Oksbad]

Is there a way to make the earth texture less blocky when in low earth orbit without a significant performance hit? It looks a fine from far away and it looks OK when in atmo, but quite ugly in low orbit.

Also, when using the recommended part packs, are the engines automatically adjusted to RO specs?

Finally, I see a few added contract mods on CKAN but many of them reference stock celestial bodies. Are there any additional contract mods compatible with RO?

There's a wiki page for all the altitudes (FlyingHigh, FlyingLow, InSpaceHigh, InSpaceLow) in RSS. Enjoy!

Thanks!

Edited March 24, 2015 by Oksbad

[snipemanmike]

Cnan anyone help me. http://www.reddit.com/r/RealSolarSystem/comments/303bnz/hello_guys_i_need_some_help_with_my_black_bird/

I have a bit of a problem with the Sr71 engines and the thrust curves I think.

[sisyphean]

hey all im having a bit of trouble getting to the moon was wondering if you all could help out.

im trying to launch from canaveral to put a satalite into a polar eliptic orbit and im having huge problems in lining up my initial orbit of the earth. i dont have the delta v spare for even a slight inclination change once im in orbit so it has to be perfect from the first try.

getting precise orbits is not hard for me at all (have placed several contract scan-sats in earth orbit within .01% variation of parameters) my problem is knowing when to launch from canaveral and into what inclination. my first attempt i tried to go with 35deg angle (i read somewhere that was the parking orbit of the apollo misions) and eyeballing the launch time from the map but i was horribly out and 35deg didnt look steep enough anyway.

ive tried using mechjeb for a rough idea but im not good with MJ and it seems completely incapable of flying the rocket in a straight line when i give it control anyway. i have been trying to eyeball it a lot and try lots of different inclinations etc but to no avail i didnt find the brief paragraphs on the wiki to be particularly helpful either and my actual wikipidea search only gave me the moons solar orbit inclination (i assume because the earths polar oscillating means the equatorial inclination is varible maybe?).

if someone can tell me what times of day cape canaveral is directly under the moons orbit and what inclination i should aim for on launch i will be one happy kerbal

thanks in advance guys

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

YES!! I experienced this after installing Ven's Stock Replacement to an existing game, and I've still not found any solutions. If you find one, I'd *love* to know about it!

~ pjf

Thanks for pointing me to this, it was already installed when the issue occurred so I didn't even consider it. The problem started after the 8.2.0 update so I figured it must be in RO somewhere. Knowing practically nothing about anything (I am so smart, S. M. R. T. D'oh), the only solution I have is to remove the alterations from VenStockRevamp Engines.cfg this does at least make the animation only occur at time of firing. This not the solution your looking for, you can go about your business. Move along.

[ajones209]

I have a quick question. Why does the FASA version of the LR-105 sustainer have 11k kerosene in it by default? This increases its mass to 9.864t

[-Velocity-]

I'm also experiencing a bug where I cannot undock my lunar module. I experienced a bug like this back in stock a long time ago, but I have not experienced it again for a VERY long time- like a year- and I had assumed it was fixed. I tried the instructions here, but they did not help at all. I'm also not sure that the symptoms are the same as the old unable-to-undock bug I got in stock. In stock, if I remember correctly, the bug manifested itself as the "Undock" action doing nothing at all. However, THIS bug DOES in fact split the ships in all ways but the most important- physically. The camera even re-centers to the new center of gravity after I click "Undock", but the ship I undocked cannot physically separate, it's like it's still glued on.

I'll try some of my own save game edits. This is highly annoying At least though, I haven't had the RCS bug crop up again **fingers crossed**.

It would be nice if modders interested in making KSP more realistic would start a unified team or something, with their own website. Instead of installing like 15 separate mods, we could just install one (which in itself would probably eliminate some bugs because it eliminates install variability and ensures compatibility), and all the modders on the team would know what the others were doing, so there would be less bugs introduced, and maybe there would even be some kind of bug tracker.

[-Velocity-]

OK, so I fixed my undocking woes, at least for now. First, I "undocked" the vessels in game so that they were in the bugged state. Next, I found both afflicted docking ports in the save file, changed the dockUId to 0 for both docking ports, and deleted the entire "DOCKEDVESSEL" entry from each part. This allowed me to finally physically separate my ships.

[Guest]

It would be nice if modders interested in making KSP more realistic would start a unified team or something, with their own website. Instead of installing like 15 separate mods, we could just install one (which in itself would probably eliminate some bugs because it eliminates install variability and ensures compatibility), and all the modders on the team would know what the others were doing, so there would be less bugs introduced, and maybe there would even be some kind of bug tracker.

Licenses complicate the issue you're trying to solve; you simply cannot reconcile GNU GPL vs. CC-SA. Furthermore, including GPL items into a BSD licensed codebase necessitates the change from BSD to GPL for the entire project (for instance). The fact is that people make parts not only for RO players but also for stock players, increasing their visibility (most mods are made for stock players to begin with). Then you have the issue of differing systems and who can run what, and how many mods. RO has a bug tracker and ongoing discussions on Github already; we're already well coordinated. The sad fact of the matter is that the entire situation is much more complicated than simply getting a few people into a room and having them make mods for you. Edited March 24, 2015 by regex