[1.3] Pilot Assistant: Atmospheric piloting aids - 1.13.2 (May 28)

[steve_v]

On 21/04/2016 at 6:19 PM, Crzyrndm said:

v1.12.5 brings Pilot Assistant to a KSP 1.1 compatible state.

Thank you, this is most certainly on my "critical mods" list, the game would not be the same without it.

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Only changes are the splitting off of the SAS Tuner / SSAS functionality for release as separate mods.

Guess I don't realise how much I relied on the SAS tuner until now You are bringing it back at some point, right?

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Anticipating a few bug reports about things...

I have only one (that I have noticed)... bank angle appears to be reversed. Negative bank angle in the "Target Bank" field (or via yaw key input) results in positive bank applied, and vice-versa.

[Crzyrndm]

Just now, steve_v said:

You are bringing it back at some point, right?

Once I'm not fighting fires all over the place...

[steve_v]

Just now, Crzyrndm said:

Once I'm not fighting fires all over the place...

Fair enough, no pressure. Just letting you know I really like that feature.
(and stock SAS appears to be extra wonky in 1.1 , or have I just become acustomed to using PA?)

[zolotiyeruki]

I love this mod.  You know what would make it even better?  A mode that uses angle of incidence as the target variable and the throttle as the control.  Also, same thing but with pitch as the control.

[TheDestroyer111]

WOW! Amazing work! This REALLY helps when you fly a supermaneuverable jet fighter at 900 m/s at low altitude with all thrust vectoring and aerodynamic controls unlocked! I just started testing it out, but i already see that it is going to be freakin' useful for some aerial combat and refueling actions!

BTW... Is there some kind of manual for this? The only buttons i dare to press are "Roll and Yaw control" and "Vertical control" because the short names for all the buttons don't help me understand them, and there are no tooltips

[Deimos Rast]

So I'm having some problems with this mod - a lot of which I suspect stems from user error. I don't know much about planes (a huge thank you for the tool tips by the way!) so none of makes much sense to me out of the box, but after much fiddling, I got it to pretty much work as I would expect. Except for one thing: Hold Heading. Whatever heading I input, it goes to 90 degrees. I have the same issue with Kramax Auto Pilot, which I understand is based on this, and have had this issue since 1.0.5. No other auto pilots are present on test craft. Test craft varies from actual planes to lone pods floating in space. Tried with and without FAR.

I don't have a log at the moment, but I'll get one soon (I may have thrown some things out the window in my effort to debug this that I probably shouldn't have...namely the mod itself).

Cheers.

[Deimos Rast]

On 5/3/2016 at 2:20 PM, TheDestroyer111 said:

WOW! Amazing work! This REALLY helps when you fly a supermaneuverable jet fighter at 900 m/s at low altitude with all thrust vectoring and aerodynamic controls unlocked! I just started testing it out, but i already see that it is going to be freakin' useful for some aerial combat and refueling actions!

BTW... Is there some kind of manual for this? The only buttons i dare to press are "Roll and Yaw control" and "Vertical control" because the short names for all the buttons don't help me understand them, and there are no tooltips

Here you go; make sure to expand the pages menu on the right side. And there are tool tips on all the PID controllers (I think that's what they're called).

https://github.com/Crzyrndm/Pilot-Assistant/wiki

Edited May 10, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[Crzyrndm]

10 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

Here you go; make sure to expand the pages menu on the right side. And there are tool tips on all the PID controllers (I think that's what they're called).

https://github.com/Crzyrndm/Pilot-Assistant/wiki

I actually forgot that existed...

I don't quite know what's going on with the heading thing. I haven't exactly spent a lot of time with this mod post 1.1 and I know there's atleast one issue that's going to be "fun" (feel the sarcasm just drip off that one) to track down. If you can possibly take a video of what you're doing that causes it to go to 90 degrees I could be a lot more helpful (and a log file never hurts)

[drhay53]

Is there a way to invert it such that A causes bank to the left, instead of the right? Right now when using bank control A banks right, and D banks left; I don't remember having this issue in the past and I haven't played in a few months.

[Crzyrndm]

How about I just fix it... (no idea where that one snuck in from...)

[Torih]

Just noticed on Pilot Assistant, it still has all 4 icons in blizzys toolbar, including the removed parts. Just another thing to add to your list

[Crzyrndm]

Er, yea...

[Adelaar]

Hi @Crzyrndm (I have absolutely no clue how to properly quote you), I don't know if the following problem has already been noted, but I noticed that there seems to be a conflict between KIS/KAS and Pilot assistant. When operating the winches, the heading as noted by PA deviates from true value, PA no longer functions (so any autopilot function activated will freeze and cannot be de-activated), and shortly after, PA's input menu will disappear and cannot be re-opened until the craft is reverted or another one selected. This flaw has lead to a few crashes, which in itself filled me with the dispair some airline pilots will have known before they flew themselves in the ground due to flightcomputer malfunction, but it's a bit too realistic for me

Anyway, apart from this apparent bug, your mod works like a charm and is the best thing I've downloaded for KSP in ages. It also works as expected and makes your aircraft actually fly decently instead of using the retarded keyboard controls. Also: I don't have any wobble whatsoever!

Edit: I noticed that PA doesn't appear in my RPM... Is there a way I can get it working? Under which button on the MFD should PA be?

Edited May 23, 2016 by Adelaar

[Mr_Breeze]

Any clue why ckan says Pilot Assistant's max compatible version is 1.1.2 and KSP add on vers checker says it's 1.1?

[Crzyrndm]

Should be fixed now. I forgot to commit the version change to git

[Mr_Breeze]

Okay, it worked thanks. 

[Deimos Rast]

2 hours ago, Crzyrndm said:

1) MJ operates on the same basis (PID controller(s)) as Pilot Assistant. PA just uses a few more of them (because 18 months ago I found that a single controller didn't give the smooth & precise behaviour I wanted) and is manually tuned (I prefer to have some interaction with the control setup, even if flight is automated)
2) Neither MJ (AFAIK) or PA interact directly with any part that controls vessel orientation. They just give control inputs to the vessel which are then interpreted appropriately by control surfaces/gimbals/RCS/reaction wheels.

Quoting you from the StockBugFix Thread.

The reason I assumed MechJeb used something different is because even in a relatively clean install, I'm still unable to get either Kramax or Pilot Assistant to work, pretty much at all (as I reported previously); whereas MechJeb works perfectly, as does RemoteTech flight computer. I just assumed they used different types of systems or something. In the latest install, I actually tried them individually, without either MJ or RT installed, so nothing could possibly be conflicting. I know you asked for a video last time; I think I'll get on that.

[Van Disaster]

*Everything* uses something different - a low level control API you could load craft profiles into would be spectacularily useful at this point if all the control mods used that ( either that or the crazy self-tuning parts of AtmosphereAutopilot ). MJ, BDA, kOS, PA, the extended PA with flight plans & waypoints, all the joystick & mouse flight mods, there are others around too.

For some reason PA is not attaching craft profiles to actual craft at the moment - I have literally zero to report in logs, want me to do anything special?

Edited May 31, 2016 by Van Disaster

[Crzyrndm]

1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

The reason I assumed MechJeb used something different is because even in a relatively clean install, I'm still unable to get either Kramax or Pilot Assistant to work, pretty much at all (as I reported previously); whereas MechJeb works perfectly, as does RemoteTech flight computer. I just assumed they used different types of systems or something. In the latest install, I actually tried them individually, without either MJ or RT installed, so nothing could possibly be conflicting. I know you asked for a video last time; I think I'll get on that.

Part of that will be the auto vs. manual tuning bit I noted in that post. It does take a bit of knowledge/tweaking to make PA wok with many vessels, and there are a small number of cases I never did manage to get PA to fly quite how I'd like it to (primarily, not having a fit when the target changes without making the change glacially slowly). MJ on the other hand, knows approximately how your craft will behave and moderates itself on that. The very basic control system is still a PID controller, you just don't need to play with it.

19 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

a low level control API you could load craft profiles into would be spectacularily useful at this point if all the control mods used that

If we all wanted the same stuff...

19 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

crazy self-tuning parts of AtmosphereAutopilot

Is irrevocably tied into the control system of that mod. It's not doing vessel tuning in the same sense that PA/MJ do. Also a huge performance hog from what I've read.

19 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

For some reason PA is not attaching craft profiles to actual craft at the moment

I'll have a poke around, I did make some significant changes to that section recently.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Crzyrndm

[Deimos Rast]

So, about that video. I made it. Link here. (As an aside: it's the first video I've ever recorded or uploaded to Youtube; half the battle was finding proper video software for Linux. Not a lot of options.). It's ~2:30min long, mainly because it took a bit for PA to maneuver with RX Wheel alone.

I set my recording software to hide the mouse cursor, which in retrospect was a bad idea. Video starts out a little dark as well, but pod is still visible and eventually the Sun comes out.

Here's a list of what's happening in the video:

• Pod free floating in orbit around Kerbin (note: I've tried in atmospheric flight - results were the same, albeit more destructive). No SAS was used or available.
• Turn off MechJeb (you can tell by the Red Light on the case) and lock it's electricity to make extra certain.
• Turn presets to default/reset to default.
• Set Heading to 0 (take hands off controls completely for remainder of video, besides panning with mouse).
• You'll see the pod convulse twice for no apparent reason as it meanders about en route to a heading of 90.
• Heading eventually reaches 90, which happens to be my prograde vector (this is a coincidence, it's not always the case), where it settles firmly.
• At two minute mark: Set pitch of 0 degrees. This works sometimes (it does this time), other times it causes the pod to flail about wildly.

This has been the case since 1.0.5, for numerous versions of PA and Kramax. No idea what to make of it really, since I know many people who swear by them.

Here is the log of the the event. Previous to the video I was testing an unofficial Telemachus build for the first time, and there seems to be something really odd going on (at the very top) which I have never ever seen before. I don't see anything else outside of the ordinary, and nothing pertaining to PA. I can rerun the experiment without the Telemachus stuff to see if the log comes out cleaner if you'd like. I should note that Telemachus controls were also shutdown (although I didn't show this in the video) -- I've only had the mod for about an hour, and this problem precedes that.

Cheers.

[Crzyrndm]

Well I guess the first thing to note is that PA was designed purely for atmospheric flight:

• It works best with a pitch closer to zero (something I'm very aware of and will revise at some point)
  • This is a consequence of the primary control system being the very first thing I designed, and the bit that's not changed notably since the very first release of PA. I didn't know enough about how KSP/Unity functioned at that point to do it how I would now, and wasn't aware of the limitations that the system would experience to know that it should be done differently.
• Its primary method of changing heading is to roll into a turn and let aerodynamics do the rest.

It's not at all suited to rocketry applications because how you do things with a plane is so totally different. You don't just roll into a turn, you can't just turn the engine off to slow down, etc., etc. MJ works exceptionally well in these situations, why reinvent the wheel when a suitable solution already exists.

PS

https://obsproject.com/index

EDIT

The reason pitch failed to work intermittently is probably because your vessel was very close to 90 degrees of bank at the time. By default PA minimises yaw angle and rotational speed aboout that axis to increase stability of the planes it flies. Almost irrespective of design, a plane is always least stable on that axis and a few degrees of deviation can lead to a loss of control (think ascent of a rocket and how going outside the prograde marker almost always leads to flips)

Edited May 31, 2016 by Crzyrndm

[Van Disaster]

15 hours ago, Crzyrndm said:

If we all wanted the same stuff...

For sure, although I'm talking at the level of basic axis tuning which is tied to the physical layout of a craft rather than any higher-level flight direction. MJ uses one PID, BDA uses one PID & extrapolates different axes from it, PA uses 3 PIDs, kOS just drives axes & all control is up to you unless someone stuffed some higher level routines in recently, not sure what stock SAS does anymore, but everything still has pitch/roll/yaw.

15 hours ago, Crzyrndm said:

I'll have a poke around, I did make some significant changes to that section recently.

Just to get on the same page I'll build a copy from the latest source.

Edit: built from source ( a zip to make sure my current git awkwardness didn't get in the way ), still no tying profiles to vehicles.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Van Disaster

[Crzyrndm]

Should all be functional now. It helps when you reference the vessel name correctly, and it helps even more when you aren't loading from the wrong place 

[Gman_builder]

This is so f-ing useful I have no words

[DeputyLOL]

@Crzyrndm I'm not entirely sure whats wrong or if its PA causing it, but occasionally PA will struggle to control pitch and flat out refuse to control heading. This is accompanied by a lot of camera shaking as well. I suspect it might be caused by very nose low or nose high attitudes or experiencing enough G forces to 'shift' a part of the ship.

Either way, when this happens PA starts to act strangely.
- Vertical mode can be engaged, but it is ineffective as it only uses about 1/4 of its control authority.
- Horizontal mode wont engage. The button turns orange but that's it. I can still control roll and yaw as if it wasn't engaged at all.
- Speed mode works normally as far as I can tell.
- There is a lot of camera shaking. Even when flying normally.
Once a ship is affected, it stays that way unless you revert to launch.

Nothing shows up in the log. Ill try and post a video showing the bug in action.