[1.4] SpaceY Heavy-Lifter Parts Pack v1.17.1 (2018-04-02)

[Helix935]

Yeah, looking at the log some more, it's definitely loading the models and textures. MM is even going through and adding the TweakScale parameters to all of them, as it should.

I have a thought, and this might be silly-- Are you playing in career or science modes? Have you unlocked the "Experimental Rocketry" node for 1000 science points? Almost everything is in that tech node, which may not have appeared before you installed the mod. Only the 3.75m nose cone and a few SRBs, plus the "ejectatron" and the like are in lower nodes. If this is the problem, then there's no problem, you just need to unlock the tech node. But what you described sounds like this might be the case.

If that turns out not to be the case, then all I can think is somehow it got corrupted, or another mod is interfering. I'd try deleting and then re-installing SpaceY (I've seen stranger things), and see if that helps. If not, then I suspect one of the other mods is mucking with the loading process (other than MM which we know is usually good) in a way that's causing some parts not to load.

OK, I finally have some time today. Whew! I love what you've written up. Looking at the thrust-plate / fairing /adapter parts, I think the larger fairing on the 5m adapter will probably still need to be large enough to accommodate the R1, since it's available with the mod, and otherwise people will tell me the adapter is broken because it doesn't support my own engines. Since the adapter plate will have its own fairing, it doesn't technically matter that the R1 is currently a lower-stage engine (although we did discuss adding conical fairings to it). If people want low-ISP, high-thrust upper stage engines... well.. I guess that's their decision. Heh.

Thank you so much for doing these line-ups and working out the thrust/mass comparisons. That's very helpful, and it definitely shows some strong niches for the adapters. I'll definitely work on those.

In the meantime, I've knocked out a few of the "easy" things.

Here's the update list so far:

 - Repainted 5m decoupler to match fuel tank stripes, and have blue triangles.
 - Repainted 5m to 4x 2.5m adapter, to match fuel tank stripes.
 - Repainted 5m to 3.75m fueled adapter tank, to match the other stripes (sensing a theme)
 - Added external fuel pipes on 5m to 3.75m fueled adapter tank.
 - Rotated engine bell pattern on F5 cluster engine, to match the R5 orientation.
 - Raised center engine bell on F5 cluster, so that all five are mounted at the same height.

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-11-30%2016-27-18-49.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-11-30%2014-10-07-78.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-11-30%2012-10-57-27.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-11-30%2012-10-37-44.jpg

wait Experimental Rocketry as in from Treeloader? Ohhh that's why, i don't have that installed due to an already overwhelming pile of mods that is forming in my gamedata folder, thanks for the help i will see if it works

[NecroBones]

wait Experimental Rocketry as in from Treeloader? Ohhh that's why, i don't have that installed due to an already overwhelming pile of mods that is forming in my gamedata folder, thanks for the help i will see if it works

No, no.. It's a stock tech node, but it doesn't appear unless you have any mods that use it. You don't need to install anything else, just look in the tech tree. It unlocks after "very heavy rocketry".

[NecroBones]

Hmm, another radial size might be trouble, if only because we'd want the rest of the parts lineup in that size and those individual engines would more directly compete with the smaller ones. If it is difficult to make work with one of the existing sizes, I'd say it's better to leave them as pre-made clusters.

That's sort-of where my thinking is. Having said that, I still want to make the adapters and let people have some choice, and I'm considering going back and making a heavy-lift (high thrust, low ISP) 1.25m engine as well, but it will have to be expensive and late in the tech tree. The "Maverick 1D" in KW is a good example, as it comes in between the LV-T30/45 and the Skipper in terms of power. Bridging the gap might help in these cases.

For adapters, I'll probably start with one like the MRS 3.75m to 7x 1.25m adapter, but with upper-stage stacking and a fairing, and then probably a 5-way of the same thing.

For 5m adapters, we'll have to think about what fits inside a 5m circle. A pair of 2.5m nodes will work for sure.

And 1.25m engines under a 5m adapter? I'm sure there are some interesting arrangements available here, but it gets tricky in terms of cooperating with the VAB symmetry modes, since the part can only have one stack-symmetry mode defined, and that won't work with two differently-numbered concentric rings of attachment points. But wouldn't that be glorious?

------

On another subject, I have large docking ports working! I did some test-docking, and it went smoothly.

Edited December 2, 2014 by NecroBones

[Red Iron Crown]

And 1.25m engines under a 5m adapter? I'm sure there are some interesting arrangements available here, but it gets tricky in terms of cooperating with the VAB symmetry modes, since the part can only have one default mode defined, and that won't work with two differently-numbered concentric rings of attachment points. But wouldn't that be glorious?

My initial thought would be to have a 2.5m node in the center, ringed by 1.25m nodes. If the player wants 1.25m engines in the center, a 2.5m-1.25m multi-adapter could be used. Neatly sidesteps the symmetry issue at the cost of different node heights if all 1.25m engines are used.

Could the central 2.5m node be recessed in the adapter maybe? That could level off the additional adapter for all-1.25m cluster while also allowing longer 2.5 engines to fit nicely.

[NecroBones]

My initial thought would be to have a 2.5m node in the center, ringed by 1.25m nodes. If the player wants 1.25m engines in the center, a 2.5m-1.25m multi-adapter could be used. Neatly sidesteps the symmetry issue at the cost of different node heights if all 1.25m engines are used.

Could the central 2.5m node be recessed in the adapter maybe? That could level off the additional adapter for all-1.25m cluster while also allowing longer 2.5 engines to fit nicely.

Brilliant! Yes, it could be recessed. I'd just have to find a way of making that look pretty, but that's entirely doable.

[Helix935]

No, no.. It's a stock tech node, but it doesn't appear unless you have any mods that use it. You don't need to install anything else, just look in the tech tree. It unlocks after "very heavy rocketry".

actually i checked it, Experimental rocketry is only found if treeloader is installed, this also probably why i couldn't find Roverdude's Alcubierre drive....

no one probably noticed because everyone as at least some techtree mod installed somewhere except for me and a few other people

[BlackTalos]

On another subject, I have large docking ports working! I did some test-docking, and it went smoothly.

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-01%2019-28-00-54.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-01%2019-32-08-26.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-01%2019-52-52-69.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-01%2019-53-37-59.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-01%2019-57-33-24.jpg

When those are in the pack, it'll become a must-have (the rocket-separatrons were too, but you know, this is a 300% increase (2 ports) in must-have-ness) =P

Good Work and Congrats!

[Eleven]

Yay Docking ports! I've already been able to dump one partial-installed Mod because your's includes decent SAS units...including docking ports would allow me to get rid of another!

Do you plan on implementing all sizes of docking ports, or just the 3.75m and 5m?

[E.Nygma]

I have large docking ports working!

Again you are marvelous Waiting for the new release! Maybe you could add in TweakScale as always?

Regards

[NecroBones]

actually i checked it, Experimental rocketry is only found if treeloader is installed, this also probably why i couldn't find Roverdude's Alcubierre drive....

no one probably noticed because everyone as at least some techtree mod installed somewhere except for me and a few other people

No, it's definitely a stock tech node. No mods required. I do all of my testing on an un-modded copy of KSP (that is, it only has my parts packs, and occasionally another mod to test compatibility, such as TweakScale). Squad created several 1000-point tech nodes for modders to use without having to create new nodes.

And I've never used treeloader.

When those are in the pack, it'll become a must-have (the rocket-separatrons were too, but you know, this is a 300% increase (2 ports) in must-have-ness) =P

Good Work and Congrats!

lol, glad you like it! I'll be releasing the update before long.

Yay Docking ports! I've already been able to dump one partial-installed Mod because your's includes decent SAS units...including docking ports would allow me to get rid of another!

Do you plan on implementing all sizes of docking ports, or just the 3.75m and 5m?

Right now I'm just planning on those two sizes, since stock versions don't exist in those sizes. But of course, tweakscale always works.

Again you are marvelous Waiting for the new release! Maybe you could add in TweakScale as always?

Regards

Oh yes, I have tweakscale configs set up for them already. Glad you're excited!

[NecroBones]

I'm going to try to get the new update out today.

In the meantime, screenshots of the newest parts. Yesterday, I managed to get the thrust-plates working. Four of them in total. Once I built one of them, it was easy to rearrange and resize things to make the other three, and they all share the texture file.

Unfortunately, the "two lengths of fairings" thing didn't work out. Here's why: in the VAB, the lower attachment nodes of the engines are attracted more strongly to the lower stack node of the fairing/thrust plate, than with their upper nodes to attach to the plate itself. Since the various engines you can use are all different sizes, there's no position "inside" that range where I can have a fairing termination point, that doesn't make one engine or another impossible to use. So the fairings have to be long enough to accommodate any and all engines that you will be expected to use. As a general rule, I had to look for the longest engine (R1, or the MRS quad-nuke, for example), and add about 0.5m, so that the nodes don't interfere too much. I was able to narrow the gap slightly more in the 2-way adapter, since it doesn't have an engine right in the center.

Anyway, here's the list, with screenshots (fairing screenshots behind "spoiler" tags):

EDIT: I just realized the 7-way adapter screenshot with the LVNs is only showing 6 engines. I'll take another shot and edit this post again shortly. EDIT: Fixed.

* 3.75m to 5x 1.25m adapter

* 3.75m to 7x 1.25m adapter

* 5m to 8x 1.25 + 1x 2.5m adapter

* 5m to 2x 2.5m adapter

Edited December 3, 2014 by NecroBones

[Red Iron Crown]

Looking good, NecroBones. Do the stock 2.5m to 1.25m multicouplers fit well in center of the 8+1 adapter?

[NecroBones]

Looking good, NecroBones. Do the stock 2.5m to 1.25m multicouplers fit well in center of the 8+1 adapter?

That's a good question; I haven't checked. I suspect that might be a problem for most of them, since I think the only one that stays "inside" the 2.5m diameter is the 2-way adapter. With the others being wider, there might not be room, at least without some clipping.

[NecroBones]

Looking good, NecroBones. Do the stock 2.5m to 1.25m multicouplers fit well in center of the 8+1 adapter?

That's a good question; I haven't checked. I suspect that might be a problem for most of them, since I think the only one that stays "inside" the 2.5m diameter is the 2-way adapter. With the others being wider, there might not be room, at least without some clipping.

Did a quick test. It looks like the 2-way is fine. I got the 4-way to work by rotating it about 25 degrees. It's a tight squeeze, but they're not out of the question:

[Red Iron Crown]

The unevenness is making my OCD twitch, it needs 22.5 degrees of rotation. How hard would it be to rotate the new adapter by 22.5 degrees, so the external line on the tank above is centered on a gap instead of a node?

(Totally nitpicky, but I know you are a bit of a perfectionist, too.)

[NecroBones]

The unevenness is making my OCD twitch, it needs 22.5 degrees of rotation. How hard would it be to rotate the new adapter by 22.5 degrees, so the external line on the tank above is centered on a gap instead of a node?

(Totally nitpicky, but I know you are a bit of a perfectionist, too.)

Actually not hard at all. Yes, I think this is better. You have to play with the engines a bit to get them to snap in, due to them just slightly clipping (and it's probably easier to put engines on both adapters independently, and then link them). But it appears to work:

[E.Nygma]

Hi necrobones,

just dropping by to tell I created a thread in the general-add-on-subforum regarding our discussion about conical engine shrouds, I hope it's ok I linked this thread there...

regards

[NecroBones]

Hi necrobones,

just dropping by to tell I created a thread in the general-add-on-subforum regarding our discussion about conical engine shrouds, I hope it's ok I linked this thread there...

regards

Certainly fine by me.

[NecroBones]

Alright, I have the update out so people can start playing with it.

0.3 (2014-12-03) - Beta updates
 - Repainted 5m decoupler to match fuel tank stripes, and have blue triangles.
 - Repainted 5m to 4x 2.5m adapter, to match fuel tank stripes.
 - Repainted 5m to 3.75m fueled adapter tank, to match the other stripes (sensing a theme?)
    - Added external fuel pipes on 5m to 3.75m fueled adapter tank.
 - Rotated engine bell pattern on F5 cluster engine, to match the R5 orientation.
 - Raised center engine bell on F5 cluster, so that all five are mounted at the same height.
 - Added 3.75m and 5m docking ports. (5m port is in "nanolathing" 1000-point tech-tree node)
 - Added "thrust plates" with optional stacking as upper stage clusters with shrouds (with a shared texture):
    - Note: These are in the "nanolathing" 1000-point tech-tree node.
    - Added 3.75m to 5x 1.25m adapter
    - Added 3.75m to 7x 1.25m adapter
    - Added 5m to 8x 1.25 + 1x 2.5m adapter
    - Added 5m to 2x 2.5m adapter

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Dammit NecroBones, you keep beating me to the punch! I've been working on a bunch of stack splitters just like these, but I am slow. I like how you've dealt with the spacing in the 5m to 12x 1.25m, my arrangement had much more clipping involved. Keep it up, these look great!

[NecroBones]

Guess what? I made a 13-way adapter. 5m to 13x 1.25m, to be exact. Since this sticks out the sides of the 5m diameter, it's lower-stage only.

[Guest]

How about 19x? I see some space between the outer engines...

[Starman4308]

Have you considered a 5m to 37x 0.625m adapter? I am sure there are plenty of reasons to use such a part.

[Joachim]

have you considered a 5m to 37x 0.625m adapter? I am sure there are plenty of reasons to use such a part.

:sticktongue::sticktongue:

[TopHatDragon]

Have you considered a 5m to 37x 0.625m adapter? I am sure there are plenty of reasons to use such a part.

It'd HAVE to be named Y0-D4W6 :-P