Biome Hopper Challenge (Open for v0.90!)

[Laie]

OMG, this is basically an insane version of my design, i'm in love. fantastic. How on earth did you average 43m/s with that rover on tylo?!?!?

Certainly not. That thing can go 20m/s in most circumstances, but I set it to 17m/s and let the autopilot drive it most of the way. The rest is pitstops: collecting science in every biome, stopping for saving the game every now and then, and once the sound of a crash alerted me to a problem and I had to saveload and babysit the rover through 20 minutes of nasty terrain.

The whole ride took about 6h game time (once I checked and found it was done -- might have been waiting for me half an hour or two minutes, I don't know). So I can't really say whether it really was six hours. I'm not even sure about the 310km either, because the route was altered while underway. But assuming 310km in 6h, my calculator says 14.3m/s -- not bad at all, but far short of your guess.

Two hours real time is a best guess based on the timestamps of my savegames.

That rover went to all Joolian Moons and visited every biome except one of Tylo's major craters (which happens to be on the opposide side). I brought a "small" dedicated lander for that one (no command module, though, hence no crew report). By the way, one can still rove reasonably well on Bop and Tylo -- I didn't expect this and had planned for many landings.

EDIT to add: Are there already pictures of your design? I browsed this thread a little but came up empty.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Laie

[Himynameisjake]

Certainly not. That thing can go 20m/s in most circumstances, but I set it to 17m/s and let the autopilot drive it most of the way. The rest is pitstops: collecting science in every biome, stopping for saving the game every now and then, and once the sound of a crash alerted me to a problem and I had to saveload and babysit the rover through 20 minutes of nasty terrain.

The whole ride took about 6h game time (once I checked and found it was done -- might have been waiting for me half an hour or two minutes, I don't know). So I can't really say whether it really was six hours. I'm not even sure about the 310km either, because the route was altered while underway. But assuming 310km in 6h, my calculator says 14.3m/s -- not bad at all, but far short of your guess.

Two hours real time is a best guess based on the timestamps of my savegames.

That rover went to all Joolian Moons and visited every biome except one of Tylo's major craters (which happens to be on the opposide side). I brought a "small" dedicated lander for that one (no command module, though, hence no crew report). By the way, one can still rove reasonably well on Bop and Tylo -- I didn't expect this and had planned for many landings.

EDIT to add: Are there already pictures of your design? I browsed this thread a little but came up empty.

Ah didn't realize that was an estimate and was real time not game time. I'm still tweaking the final design will upload shortly, but it's a modified version of my lab rover that I posted some time back

[Himynameisjake]

Here's the almost finished rover, which can deorbit/orbit from any planet except tylo, laythe, and eve unaided. I'm making some tough decisions between aesthetics and functionality at the moment and have some structural weak points that I'd like to bang out. Right now, the big struggles are adding RCS tanks for stability while roving and docking, adding a docking port, and some tweaks here and there. However this means ditching the Cupola in favor of a lighter and smaller command module, something I'm not entirely ready to do from an aesthetics standpoint.

[Claw]

I must be mad. But you've written "untested" next to my trusty labrover... I can't let that stand.

Great job Laie! Your designs are fantastic. I've updated your "in progress" entry to link back to your above post.

How do you define this? I'm currently estimating the tylo leg of the trip around 6 days of driving from deorbit to ascent, with similar time frames expected for Eve, Mun, and Duna.

I've intentionally not defined "grindy" because everyone's definition is a little different. Personally I don't mind driving rovers (I took one KSC to the North pole. It took 12 game hours.) Mostly that comment is aimed at "here's tube with wheels," as opposed to something like that neat rover you posted above. Or the kinds of stuff Laie is posting. It's still a rover that takes a long time to drive, which some people hate and it feels "grindy," but it's not just a tube on wheels. It's all about design while being functional.

However this means ditching the Cupola in favor of a lighter and smaller command module, something I'm not entirely ready to do from an aesthetics standpoint.

That, right there...That's what I mean by "doesn't feel grindy." If you like it, do it! Don't let raw efficiency stand in the way of a fun design. (Unless efficiency is your thing, then have at it....)

Cheers,

~Claw

Edited January 20, 2015 by Claw

[Himynameisjake]

That, right there...That's what I mean by "doesn't feel grindy." If you like it, do it! Don't let raw efficiency stand in the way of a fun design. (Unless efficiency is your thing, then have at it....)

Cheers,

~Claw

Yeah, efficiency and aesthetics always becomes a tug of war for me, because I try to push the limits of what the stock game can do. This challenge isn't going to be complete in my book until I can do a grand tour total mine in one launch. So efficiency often takes precedence over aesthetics

- - - Updated - - -

There we are, final design rover lab capable of all but the big three unmodified, Tylo requires a fuel drop, Laythe and Eve I'm going to wait to hear what the aerodynamics update has in store for us.

[Laie]

@Himynameisjake: more info, also craft files. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100849-Biome-Hopper-Challenge-%28Open-for-v0-90%21%29?p=1570659&viewfull=1#post1570659

(check the spoilers!)

I've been refining that design for half a year now. It's great-grandfather already went to Jool in 0.23.5. The basic concept of putting the fuel in outriggers, for a low CoM and wide wheelbase, hasn't changed since -- you can consider that to be tried and true. The landing gear at either end is key to driving fast: with such a heavy vessel, you risk blown tires at every bump in the terrain. No matter how many wheels you put there, the first is not going to live long, and a blown tire at 20m/s rarely ends well. The landing gears can take every bump, however. I eventually accepted them as necessity even though it feels cheaty.

Ever since, I've been moving around the command pod. Problem was to get the pilot out and back without having to switch ladders; preferably also so that he doesn't need to move over the entire craft in order to get at the science. The model with a cockpit at the side was an utter failure in that regard (looked sleek, though). I'm quite happy with the most recent version -- science collection is as hassle-free as it gets.

For Tylo, I at first considered dangling the thing from a skycrane, but the part count (and dead weight) quickly went through the roof. What you see above is only 15 parts or so. I sent them down as a bundle because I didn't trust that I could land the fuel within 100km of the rover; as a side effect, I could save all the tiny pieces that would be necessary for an autonomous lander.

I like your design. It's probably not as fast as mine (do you really want to do all of Tylo's biomes on wheels?), but it looks like something NASA would actually put on the Moon. Mine didn't even look at home on Laythe Beach, maybe it would need a few bikini girls to round it out. Only, why four engines? Two will suffice for Duna... and on Tylo, more conventional engines would suit you better. Do you have enough ground clearance that you could mount a single aerospike? The saved weight might even allow for a cupola in the end.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Laie

[Himynameisjake]

@Himynameisjake: more info, also craft files. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100849-Biome-Hopper-Challenge-%28Open-for-v0-90%21%29?p=1570659&viewfull=1#post1570659

(check the spoilers!)

I've been refining that design for half a year now. It's great-grandfather already went to Jool in 0.23.5. The basic concept of putting the fuel in outriggers, for a low CoM and wide wheelbase, hasn't changed since -- you can consider that to be tried and true. The landing gear at either end is key to driving fast: with such a heavy vessel, you risk blown tires at every bump in the terrain. No matter how many wheels you put there, the first is not going to live long, and a blown tire at 20m/s rarely ends well. The landing gears can take every bump, however. I eventually accepted them as necessity even though it feels cheaty.

Ever since, I've been moving around the command pod. Problem was to get the pilot out and back without having to switch ladders; preferably also so that he doesn't need to move over the entire craft in order to get at the science. The model with a cockpit at the side was an utter failure in that regard (looked sleek, though). I'm quite happy with the most recent version -- science collection is as hassle-free as it gets.

For Tylo, I at first considered dangling the thing from a skycrane, but the part count (and dead weight) quickly went through the roof. What you see above is only 15 parts or so. I sent them down as a bundle because I didn't trust that I could land the fuel within 100km of the rover; as a side effect, I could save all the tiny pieces that would be necessary for an autonomous lander.

I like your design. It's probably not as fast as mine (do you really want to do all of Tylo's biomes on wheels?), but it looks like something NASA would actually put on the Moon. Mine didn't even look at home on Laythe Beach, maybe it would need a few bikini girls to round it out. Only, why four engines? Two will suffice for Duna... and on Tylo, more conventional engines would suit you better. Do you have enough ground clearance that you could mount a single aerospike? The saved weight might even allow for a cupola in the end.

It's certainly not as fast or steady as yours, it's going to be a long slow plod on tylo.

I thought about landing gear hogging the thing, but in the end, like you said, it felt cheaty. The one pair of gear in the center was more for my piece of mind than anything else.

As for doing tylo, yeah, I intend to do it on wheels, a whole lot of set it and forget it.

With the aerospike, I hadn't considered it and I doubt I have the ground clearance, but I could at least see if the weight saves the difference in thrust.

I think the cupola is gone for good, I just couldn't justify the mass over nine landings.

[astrobond]

Hi All

I'm back with an Eve/Gilly Biomes Catcher !

Craft Name (if you’re feeling clever): Eve-Gilly Biomes Catcher

Stock / Non-Stock Entry: Stock

Celestial Body: Eve and Gilly

Number of Biomes: 7 on Eve and 3 on Gilly (Full Biomes)

Total Mission Cost (Optional): Ship = 872236, - SSTO Lifter Recovered 425526, - Ship Recovered 161905 = 284805 Final Cost.

Highest Science Tier (Optional): Full

Craft File (Optional): Ask if you want, but don't forget to add a manned command module to the Rover

Note to myself: "The Lab can't make Crew Reports...."

BTW I hope this entry will be ok if the crew report is only needed too proof the kerbals were landed at each biomes, because I have a flag on each biomes and ground eva reports, but NO crew reports on Eve....

No big problems on this mission, just a "little" hard to land the SSTO lifter... (maybe 15 times F9... lol) and only two rover crashes on two real time hours of driving at x4 speed... xD

12232 Science points from biomes

Here is the album:

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Fly safe with Jeb !

[Himynameisjake]

Hi All

I'm back with an Eve/Gilly Biomes Catcher !

Craft Name (if you’re feeling clever): Eve-Gilly Biomes Catcher

Stock / Non-Stock Entry: Stock

Celestial Body: Eve and Gilly

Number of Biomes: 7 on Eve and 3 on Gilly (Full Biomes)

Total Mission Cost (Optional): Ship = 872236, - SSTO Lifter Recovered 425526, - Ship Recovered 161905 = 284805 Final Cost.

Highest Science Tier (Optional): Full

Craft File (Optional): Ask if you want, but don't forget to add a manned command module to the Rover

Note to myself: "The Lab can't make Crew Reports...."

BTW I hope this entry will be ok if the crew report is only needed too proof the kerbals were landed at each biomes, because I have a flag on each biomes and ground eva reports, but NO crew reports on Eve....

No big problems on this mission, just a "little" hard to land the SSTO lifter... (maybe 15 times F9... lol) and only two rover crashes on two real time hours of driving at x4 speed... xD

12232 Science points from biomes

Here is the album:

http://imgur.com/a/Os5FZ

Fly safe with Jeb !

Don't mind me, just stealing your wheel layout. NEVER would have dreamed the mini-struts could hold up to to Tylo/Laythe, much less Eve. I didn't even think to try them. How did they handle at speed/over obstacles? I saw at times you were over 20m/s on four wheels, with no landing gear, crazy impressive. Thanks for saving me close to 1T.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you have enough ground clearance that you could mount a single aerospike? The saved weight might even allow for a cupola in the end.

I just played around with the aerospike, and while it does reduce part count, it saves me no fuel (in fact with lower gravity planets I fear it would actually cost me fuel), It also requires putting my lab a bit higher off the ground which is counterproductive to stability. I may try finagling a bit more with it, but at this time it appears to be a tantalizing close, but no cigar.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Himynameisjake

[astrobond]

Don't mind me, just stealing your wheel layout. NEVER would have dreamed the mini-struts could hold up to to Tylo/Laythe, much less Eve. I didn't even think to try them. How did they handle at speed/over obstacles? I saw at times you were over 20m/s on four wheels, with no landing gear, crazy impressive. Thanks for saving me close to 1T.

Thank's a lot Himynameisjake

You can "steal" everything you want lol

The Struts Cube are really hard to break and ultralights xD

There is a picture at 4xspeed and more than 30m/s, fine ^^

But Eve is "easy" for the rovers, not too much mountains, high gravity so the rover keeps almost always on the ground, the only problem i have with my rover is when there is a big angle between two parts of ground, I think at 4xSpeed and more than 25m/s the front wheels explode, and this is the crash... but the struts cube don't broke

Another problem is when I want to stop the rover with the "B" key, on a planet with lower gravity than Eve, the Rover can flip need to find a solution for Duna highspeedstops/F5 every 10mn of driving...

[Himynameisjake]

Thank's a lot Himynameisjake

You can "steal" everything you want lol

The Struts Cube are really hard to break and ultralights xD

There is a picture at 4xspeed and more than 30m/s, fine ^^

But Eve is "easy" for the rovers, not too much mountains, high gravity so the rover keeps almost always on the ground, the only problem i have with my rover is when there is a big angle between two parts of ground, I think at 4xSpeed and more than 25m/s the front wheels explode, and this is the crash... but the struts cube don't broke

Another problem is when I want to stop the rover with the "B" key, on a planet with lower gravity than Eve, the Rover can flip need to find a solution for Duna highspeedstops/F5 every 10mn of driving...

That's incredible, it will save me a boat load of time.

As for the flipping issues, have you considered adding RCS/SAS? does wonders, especially a single directional RCS at the rear when you hit the brakes. May need more than one going that fast though.

[astrobond]

That's incredible, it will save me a boat load of time.

As for the flipping issues, have you considered adding RCS/SAS? does wonders, especially a single directional RCS at the rear when you hit the brakes. May need more than one going that fast though.

Oh yes ! i'll try RCS ^^

SAS help a lot too, will also try to add more SAS...

At this time, the best thing I tried is to add landing gears in front of the rover wheels to avoid flipping, and the same rear to avoid wheeling

Not really nice, but very efficient ^^

[Laie]

With the aerospike, I hadn't considered it and I doubt I have the ground clearance, but I could at least see if the weight saves the difference in thrust.

I think the cupola is gone for good, I just couldn't justify the mass over nine landings.

Too bad about the cupola, it gives such nice IVA views.

The aerospike should work, both TWR- and dV-wise. You only need about 1300m/s worth of high TWR, the nukes can take care of the rest. LVT30 or 48-7S might also work for Tylo, and be less deadweight everywhere else. The latter have the added benefit of being extra low-profile. Or, how about detachable engines? Alpheratz' Jool-5 mission showcased the concept. All rep is his.

Roving on Tylo is mostly easy going. The part that gave me trouble was obvious even from orbit, but going around would have been the mother of all detours. As you need to cover such a huge distance, finding a safe and reasonably direct route shouldn't be too difficult -- you might get away with letting it run overnight.

At this time, the best thing I tried is to add landing gears in front of the rover wheels to avoid flipping, and the same rear to avoid wheeling

To that end, it's enough to deactivate the front brakes and rear motors. Landing gears only become necessary if you need heavy-duty shock absorbers.

- - - Updated - - -

I just played around with the aerospike, and while it does reduce part count, it saves me no fuel (in fact with lower gravity planets I fear it would actually cost me fuel),

Good heavens, you're not supposed to keep it active at all times! It would be switched on *only* for landing and takeoff on Tylo, and even there only for part of the way. Everywhere else, it would be deadweight. But a lot less weight than the additional Nervas, which likewise would only be really necessary on Tylo (and excessive weight everywhere else).

Edited January 20, 2015 by Laie

[Himynameisjake]

Ah, you're thinking combining a few nukes with an aerospike if I understand you correctly? that sounds interesting.

[astrobond]

To that end, it's enough to deactivate the front brakes and rear motors. Landing gears only become necessary if you need heavy-duty shock absorbers.

Hi and thank's for the help Laie

Didn't even thought to disable rear motors........ xD good idea !

BTW how do you disable front brakes on rovers wheels ???

[Laie]

Ah, you're thinking combining a few nukes with an aerospike if I understand you correctly? that sounds interesting.

Exactly. Two Nukes for everywhere, plus something extra that will only be needed on Tylo. 2500m/s is fully enough for taking off from Tylo, and only half of that needs to be at high TWR. So if your dV calculator tells you that you have 2200m/s with all engines running, that should be fine. When going down, however, I want to have 3000m/s and go nuke-only for maybe 300. Can you attach drop tanks?

BTW how do you disable front brakes on rovers wheels ???

In stock, only in the SPH/VAB during assembly. Actually, "brakes" is an action group like any other; if you have a mod to edit action groups in the field, that should work as well. Or edit the savegame.

[astrobond]

In stock, only in the SPH/VAB during assembly. Actually, "brakes" is an action group like any other; if you have a mod to edit action groups in the field, that should work as well. Or edit the savegame.

OMG Thank's a lot Laie !

I never used those action groups...

Will try that ASAP

[Himynameisjake]

I'm almost done with the rover after a night of really fighting with the damn thing to get what I wanted out of it. Ended up putting some landing gear on it because I'm a no good dirty rotten cheat. Next to build is the other accessory craft that I know I will need (an Eve rover (basically a twin, but with parachutes and no thrust), an Eve lander to bring the kerbals home, a Gravmax sat and a high altitude/Jool dive plane). Hopefully by then they'll have aerodynamics figured out so I can plan Laythe, and then finally I have to figure out a way to lift all those things, plus just silly amounts of fuel.

[Claw]

I'm back with an Eve/Gilly Biomes Catcher !

...

BTW I hope this entry will be ok if the crew report is only needed too proof the kerbals were landed at each biomes, because I have a flag on each biomes and ground eva reports, but NO crew reports on Eve....

Oh dear. In among all the other discussions I totally skipped over this... You have been added to the front page!!

Considering your mission profile and how you arrived on Eve, I'm willing to bend and accept the Science Lab rover since you could have done the same mission profile with a smaller cockpit part. (The real purpose of that rule is to prevent using a command chair everywhere. shhh)

Nice job! And my apologies for overlooking your fantastic entry!

Cheers,

~Claw

[astrobond]

Oh dear. In among all the other discussions I totally skipped over this... You have been added to the front page!!

Considering your mission profile and how you arrived on Eve, I'm willing to bend and accept the Science Lab rover since you could have done the same mission profile with a smaller cockpit part. (The real purpose of that rule is to prevent using a command chair everywhere. shhh)

Nice job! And my apologies for overlooking your fantastic entry!

Cheers,

~Claw

Thank's a lot Claw

[astrobond]

Hi all

Here is my last mission for this challenge:

The Plan:

Make a "small" ship full science experiments + Lab, fully reusable, to catch all biomes on Ike and Duna in a single mission.

Two landings on Ike (North and South), one landing on Duna (South).

Rover Ship able to sustain 20m/s or more at X4 Speed to catch nearby biomes.

(Thank's to Laie for tip to unable Front brakes and unable rear motors, works very well !!!)

KSP 0.90, Full Stock + KER

Craft File: Duna Ike Biomes Catcher

Crew: 3 Kerbals

Ship Mass: 37.0 Tons

Ship Parts: 198

Ship cost: 196243

SSTO Lifter Refund: 114796

End Mission Rover + Orbital Tank Refund: 75844

Final cost: 5603

All Biomes visited (8 on Ike, 5 on Duna)

Total Biomes Science Points: 11968.8

(Not the max possible Science Points, one biome was already visited in a previous mission)

4 Tires exploded on Duna "Kiss Landing" xD

Hopefully, Bill was able to repair...

Almost Forgot to Repack Chutes before Landing on Kerbin !

Try to keep under 20m/s in down-hill at speed x4...

The Album:

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Fly safe with Jeb !

[Claw]

Here is my last mission for this challenge:

Wow. Sorry to see it's your last mission, but another fine job. All that accomplished for only 5.6k funds. That's insane!

Again, very nice work...

~Claw

[Himynameisjake]

Getting very close to the final design of my rover to end all rovers. AND DID I MENTION IT'S 100% STOCK? This little guy can combine with a wimpy little plane to capture all non-asteroid science in the Kerbol system except for flying low records at Eve (I'll only be able to get one biome's worth of flying low unless I drastically modify the design).

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While it doesn't get the top speeds in 4x that I'd like it to (averages about 16m/s safely in 3x), it gets the player anywhere they'd like to be. Idiot-proof, even mechjeb can land this thing without any advanced flight path, simple suicide burns get you down to the surface of Tylo. Able to "hop" up in the air for flying low data on Laythe and Duna, and fly from the equator to the poles of both, hunting down every last bit of science is no problem. I can launch myself off bumps on Eve in attempts to get flying low data, but it's proven a bit dangerous. I've considered a little lander to drag around by the claw for Eve, not really certain how I want to approach it. Now I just need to finalize a tug and the plane (and possibly a small hopper for Eve) for my grand tour, and I'm ready to go.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Himynameisjake

[astrobond]

Wow. Sorry to see it's your last mission, but another fine job. All that accomplished for only 5.6k funds. That's insane!

Again, very nice work...

~Claw

Thank's a lot Claw

Sorry for my poor English, i mean latest, not last !

I think i'll be back soon on this cool challenge

[Himynameisjake]

I much more efficiently finished my upper atmosphere plane in one sitting, this is designed to capture the science data of Jool (low and upper atmosphere, and the upper atmospheric data from Eve, Laythe, and Duna, while the rover is grabbing data on the ground.

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