Riots in USA

[LordFerret]

There's a lot of bad stuff going on tonight here in the USA... protests... riots... violence. Do not be a part of it people... violence only begets violence. Indeed, talk and express your feelings, but listen to and respect the feelings of others as well... both sides of the coin. We as a people are better than this - prove it to the world, as all eyes are upon us tonight.

[Sun]

There's a lot of bad stuff going on tonight here in the USA... protests... riots... violence. Do not be a part of it people... violence only begets violence. Indeed, talk and express your feelings, but listen to and respect the feelings of others as well... both sides of the coin. We as a people are better than this - prove it to the world, as all eyes are upon us tonight.

Not to get political, but it's probably something to do with the Republicans taking the Senate. I'm not intending to get political, just joking around.

[Dodgey]

Can we have links to news sites please

[LordFerret]

Not to get political, but it's probably something to do with the Republicans taking the Senate. I'm not intending to get political, just joking around.

Unfortunately, this is (again) about racial tensions and perceived inequalities. As far as things political however, we're a mess at the moment... common sense is desperately needed by all, both sides of the aisle.

Dodgey, just Google "Ferguson".

[PakledHostage]

Can we have links to news sites please

Here's a link to a news site that isn't Fox: Michael Brown shooting: Officer Darren Wilson not indicted by grand jury

[Dodgey]

Thanks.

10chars

[KerbMav]

Would an all black jury have objectively ruled based on the evidences?

"The Ferguson grand jury is composed of seven men and five women. Nine are white and three are black. They vary by age, socioeconomic status and live in various parts of St. Louis County."

Would a black prosecutor have appeased the people?

"Throughout the investigation, some black leaders and Brown's parents questioned McCulloch's ability to be impartial. The prosecutor's father, mother, brother, uncle and cousin all worked for the St. Louis Police Department, and his father was killed while responding to a call involving a black suspect in 1964.

McCulloch was 12 at the time, and the killing became a hallmark of his initial campaign for elected prosecutor.

A Democrat, McCulloch has been in office since 1991 and was re-elected to another term earlier this month."

Should the US staff every patrol car with two officers, one white and one black?

I guess in all cases every black person siding with the law would have been called a traitor to their brothers. And this statement will be seen as racist, because obviously a black person cannot be racist, the same as woman obviously cannot be sexist ...

Humanity, get your act together!

[vexx32]

Guys, just please be aware that this can be a sensitive issue, so please treat each other respectfully and try to avoid trampling over others' opinions. Moreover, please don't resort to personal attacks if you don't agree with someone's opinion.

I'm not sure how reliable the source I read was, but it stated that 9 out of the 12 jurors chose to drop the charges. All well and good, I guess. It also stated that 9 out of the 12 were white; the remaining 3 were African American. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that all the white jurors voted to drop the charges, but it is something of a scary coincidence. An additional problem I see here is both that 1) three out of four of the jurors were white... in a predominantly black neighbourhood -- I'm not that familiar with how juries are normally chosen, but that seems pretty shady to me. And 2) not one member of any other racial group was present on the jury. I'm not talking Indian or Asian here; African Americans are not the sole dark-skinned race present in America. None of those people effectively got their say.

Normally, juries are picked fairly randomly (as far as I know, anyway). But in a case where it is quite clear that racial biases may be present, I feel as though it ought to be the responsibility of the legal system to attempt to even things out where there is a risk of prejudice overriding the jury's sense of justice. In other words, for a case where racial biases are likely to come into play, all races involved should have equal representation on the jury, so as to cancel out inherent biases as much as possible. It would be even better to include third parties -- races or peoples not directly involved in the incident(s) -- so that a tiebreaker exists, if possible.

Justice may be blind, but jurors are not. Perhaps it would be better if they were.

[KerbMav]

I'm not sure how reliable the source I read was, but it stated that 9 out of the 12 jurors chose to drop the charges. All well and good, I guess. It also stated that 9 out of the 12 were white; the remaining 3 were African American.

Normally, juries are picked fairly randomly (as far as I know, anyway).

From my reading (in the last hour) a grand jury serves for a set time and is not assembled for each case.

An additional problem I see here is both that 1) three out of four of the jurors were white... in a predominantly black neighbourhood -- I'm not that familiar with how juries are normally chosen, but that seems pretty shady to me. And 2) not one member of any other racial group was present on the jury. I'm not talking Indian or Asian here; African Americans are not the sole dark-skinned race present in America. None of those people effectively got their say.

If we take the "jury of his peers" from the Magna Carta, the jury should have been all white - like the police officer.

But in a case where it is quite clear that racial biases may be present, I feel as though it ought to be the responsibility of the legal system to attempt to even things out where there is a risk of prejudice overriding the jury's sense of justice. In other words, for a case where racial biases are likely to come into play, all races involved should have equal representation on the jury, so as to cancel out inherent biases as much as possible. It would be even better to include third parties -- races or peoples not directly involved in the incident(s) -- so that a tiebreaker exists, if possible.

Race should not be a factor in the finding of truth in the first place.

(Let an old man dream ... )

Justice may be blind, but jurors are not. Perhaps it would be better if they were.

I honestly gave thought if asperga should be a requirement for jurors, to get a jury of unemotional analysts - but I came to the conclusion that this sais nothing about racial biase, does it, and that I may be influenced by media depiction of asperga.

[mrrpamplemousse]

Race should not be a factor in the finding of truth in the first place.

(Let an old man dream ... )

But isn't that, sadly, something inherent in the people of our current society, the fear (which then leads to prejudices) of the others?

Just my two cents...

[KerbMav]

.

I said, let me dream!

[PakledHostage]

If we take the "jury of his peers" from the Magna Carta, the jury should have been all white - like the police officer.

I don't see why race should come into the definition of a "peer"? I am not a historian and I don't read or speak Latin so I can't go back to the source (correct interpretation of the Magna Carta seems to be shrouded in myth), but I don't think the writers of the Magna Carta intended it to be read that way either. While people of other races would have been a rare sight in 13th century England, I believe that the concept of a person's peer was intended to mean people from a similar socioeconomic position. If I remember my highschool history correctly, the Magna Carta wasn't a universal declaration of human rights and freedoms so much as a statement that the English nobility had rights and freedoms.

And with regard to last night's events in Ferguson: We should remember that the majority of protests last summer were peaceful. I strongly suspect that troublemakers came out of the woodwork in advance of last night's announcement who really had no interest in the Grand Jury's decision. They knew that the crowd would be unruly and all it needed was a trigger to push them over the edge into violence. Then once the mayhem starts, it feeds on itself. The troublemakers get to have a night of "fun" looting and burning stuff from within the anonymity of the mob, while Ferguson and its people suffer the black eye.

[Ascensiam]

The worst people are those that wait for the commotion to be at it's worst and then begin looting, those are just criminals rather than protesters.

[Red Iron Crown]

1. Be upset about court decision (rightly or wrongly, I don't know the specifics of the case)

2. Destroy own neighborhood.

3. ....

4. Profit?

I don't get it.

[BagelRabbit]

But isn't that, sadly, something inherent in the people of our current society, the fear (which then leads to prejudices) of the others?

From the musical South Pacific:

"You've got to be taught to hate and fear;

you've got to be taught from year to year;

it's got to be drummed in your dear little ear.

You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid

of people whose eyes are oddly made

and people whose skin is a different shade.

You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late;

before you are six, or seven, or eight,

to hate all the people your relatives hate.

You've got to be carefully taught."

Even though this was made in 1949, its message still rings true for everyone, everywhere, of every ethnicity (in the original musical, this song is about Americans hating Asian people, but its message goes beyond that).

It was the first thing to pop into my mind when I heard about this.

Stay safe, everyone.

[EDIT - Can't post attachments?! Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JjiaRJqKIU]

Edited November 25, 2014 by UpsilonAerospace
...?

[Ikaneko]

1. Be upset about court decision (rightly or wrongly, I don't know the specifics of the case)

2. Destroy own neighborhood.

3. ....

4. Profit?

I don't get it.

I believe something to do with the spur of the moment and mob pyschology.

Many people came out to protest, but a few ringleaders and hooligans turned it into a riot.

P.S Also Sun, nice username.

P.P.S Upsilon, you need a forward slash before the second SPOILER, but inside the parentheses/brackets.

[Nikolai]

1. Be upset about court decision (rightly or wrongly, I don't know the specifics of the case)

2. Destroy own neighborhood.

3. ....

4. Profit?

I don't get it.

Peaceful rebellion only works when your oppressor has a conscience.

If you've tried peaceful means of changing things, and you learn that your oppressor will use deadly force and not be punished for it, it can be rather dispiriting. What other means would you have to right wrongs? It can make one feel trapped, or fearful; it might even lead to panic.

Which does not mean that I condone the actions of the rioters. I think, however, that on some level, I can understand it.

[KerbMav]

I don't see why race should come into the definition of a "peer"? I am not a historian and I don't read or speak Latin so I can't go back to the source (correct interpretation of the Magna Carta seems to be shrouded in myth), but I don't think the writers of the Magna Carta intended it to be read that way either. While people of other races would have been a rare sight in 13th century England, I believe that the concept of a person's peer was intended to mean people from a similar socioeconomic position. If I remember my highschool history correctly, the Magna Carta wasn't a universal declaration of human rights and freedoms so much as a statement that the English nobility had rights and freedoms.

It was just in response to vexx32 mentioning a "more white than black" jury. I could also have said, it should have been 12 police officers.

(Hah! 12 black and hispanic police officers, now that I would have liked to see, especially the reaction of the protestors!)

[LordFerret]

People forget this entire thing started with a young man stealing from a store. Ripples in a pond. Respect for others, self-respect. Morals.

[KerbMav]

People forget this entire thing started with a young man stealing from a store. Ripples in a pond. Respect for others, self-respect. Morals.

Was it actually him?

[mrrpamplemousse]

Was it actually him?

Perhaps, perhaps not, maybe we'll never know... But the harm is already done I guess...

[Capt.Joseph Kerbertson]

Not to get political, but it's probably something to do with the Republicans taking the Senate. I'm not intending to get political, just joking around.

No, it has to do with this :

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/michael-brown-ferguson-missouri-timeline/14051827/

[Capt.Joseph Kerbertson]

1. Be upset about court decision (rightly or wrongly, I don't know the specifics of the case)

2. Destroy own neighborhood.

3. ....

4. Profit?

I don't get it.

They are finding that the majority of trouble makers arrested are not from the area. They are just there for a fight, there to stir the pot.

[Capt.Joseph Kerbertson]

It was just in response to vexx32 mentioning a "more white than black" jury. I could also have said, it should have been 12 police officers.

(Hah! 12 black and hispanic police officers, now that I would have liked to see, especially the reaction of the protestors!)

People aren't understanding how a grand jury is selected or how long they serve. It's not like the normal process where you take a summons to the courthouse and are selected for the day (it's called a petit jury). They are chosen at random, either through voter registration or drivers license. Public safety officers are automatically excused because it would be a burden. Some grand jury's sit for up to 3 years once selected and are very specific in what they do. They aren't there to determine guilt or innocence, they are there to determine if there is enough evidence to go to trial.

[comham]

The state should have a monopoly on legitimate use of force, and that legitimacy needs to be upheld by prosecuting abuses of power, and that did not happen in this case, from all appearances.