Examples of how inexplicably heavy the NCS Adapter is.

[VR_Dev]

Hi there, this is the NCS Adapter, and it is the bane of my existence.

Unfortunately, this is one of the most important parts in the game, especially for jets, and for people who appreciate ascetics as much as functionality. It is the only part which allows the 1.25m parts to be gradually reduced in size, creating beautiful lines on many crafts.

But as you can see, it has a mass of .3, which is bonkers.

I would love to use this part everywhere, but it is like having a part made of solid led. My new f-22 is great, but this part decreases the performance dramatically.

Here of of some examples of how the NCS adapter compares to other similar parts. The only thing I want from .9, more than anything, is for the weight of these two part to be reconsidered.

It is equal to 3 structural fuselages.

as well as 3 Rockomax Brand Adapters.

In addition the only way to make a proper nosecone is to use the NCS adapter as well as the standard nosecone, which has a mass of .1:confused:,

these are the same mass....

.

Not trying to be a ...., but so much of my time is wasted trying to make up for these parts. You're telling me this is how much weight is on the front of my F22.

Edited December 10, 2014 by clown_baby

[zekes]

so true - but it may be because it's needed to balance many planes - but still, that weight is far to arbitrary for my liking....

[andrew123]

so true - but it may be because it's needed to balance many planes - but still, that weight is far to arbitrary for my liking....

Rockomax probably claims the nosecone is made of neutronium.

[prophet_01]

Never realised this although I've been using those frequently. Guess I'm so focused on engine and fuel tank stats that I've never had a look at that. But it's rly strange and should certainly get revision

[cicatrix]

LOL. I've been using many parts taking their mass into account without even thinking of comparing their masses.

Pity. I wish I didn't read this thread. This wouldn't be the same

I wonder if there's anything that can be done globally (I mean - not patching all the stock parts, but calculate the part mass judging by its volume/average density, for example)

[Wallygator]

That's a crazy! never noticed it.

So... Assuming all part mass ratings were aligned and balanced against each other...

It would be nice to have a tweakable to increase a mass rating if required - allowing added weight where and when it is needed - perhaps some of it being fuel when appropriate.

[King Arthur]

If you think the NCS is bad, then take a look at the Protective Rocket Nosecone Mk7.

[CaptRobau]

It's one of the remaining 'old' parts. It needs a redone model and a cfg fix in one go.

[Red Iron Crown]

The mass is out of whack, for sure. Hopefully it gets adjusted at some point.

In the meantime, you could .cfg edit it to something appropriate (no good if you want to share your craft, though).

[VR_Dev]

so true - but it may be because it's needed to balance many planes - but still, that weight is far to arbitrary for my liking....

I don't know, having to move the mass backwards is the problem I always encounter. Two engines and fuel in the back should be heavier than the cockpit up front I think. It's hard to build replica jets with the wings in the right position because lift always needs to come forward.

Rockomax probably claims the nosecone is made of neutronium.

I don't even care if they leave the NCS adapter the same weight and increase the other parts. I just want some consistency.

LOL. I've been using many parts taking their mass into account without even thinking of comparing their masses.

Pity. I wish I didn't read this thread. This wouldn't be the same

I wonder if there's anything that can be done globally (I mean - not patching all the stock parts, but calculate the part mass judging by its volume/average density, for example)

It's easy not to think about on a lot of craft, but for jets especially I try and eliminate as much weight as possible. And the weight is one thing, but using it as a nosecone throws of the COM drastically.

It's one of the remaining 'old' parts. It needs a redone model and a cfg fix in one go.

Big time. I thought Squad wouldn't do it because it would mess with everyones crafts, but the last update didn't mind. I wanna see a light, really pointed nosecone like the b9 one.

If you think the NCS is bad, then take a look at the Protective Rocket Nosecone Mk7.

Sure it's heavy, but it makes sense with its size. These things are equal.

The mass is out of whack, for sure. Hopefully it gets adjusted at some point.

In the meantime, you could .cfg edit it to something appropriate (no good if you want to share your craft, though).

Yeah I know, but I build stuff to share. And what's the point of making an all stock craft just to have one part make it not.

[LethalDose]

Yeah, it probably used to be more balanced (I could have sworn the structural fuselage used to be 0.3 or 0.4 t).

But overall the game is in development, so there are bound to be some goofy values around, e.g. it takes 6k funds to develop a freaking nose cone, but only 4k to develop a jet engine!

[Red Iron Crown]

Yeah, it probably used to be more balanced (I could have sworn the structural fuselage used to be 0.3 or 0.4 t).

Reduced from 0.4t to 0.1t in 0.24. The dry mass of the jet fuel fuselage was also reduced to make it competitive with LFO tanks with oxidizer removed.

[VR_Dev]

But overall the game is in development, so there are bound to be some goofy values around

I know, just trying to point one of them out.

Reduced from 0.4t to 0.1t in 0.24. The dry mass of the jet fuel fuselage was also reduced to make it competitive with LFO tanks with oxidizer removed.

Interesting, so it definitely was just missed.

[King Arthur]

Sure it's heavy, but it makes sense with its size. These things are equal.

When you take a look at the 2.5m->1.25m Rockomax adapter you realize that the nosecone's mass is unholy.

[MKI]

Nice to know for the future. Ill blame my SSTO failure on using 4 of these

These values are pretty much bogus as you said. Hopefully someone at squad takes a few moments from their busy lives and gets around to changing the mass values of this part. This sorta stuff isn't new, but still important none the less.

+1 for educating the masses. (lol get it)

[rkman]

so true - but it may be because it's needed to balance many planes

Indeed. My guess is that part is so heavy for the purpose of offsetting the high mass at the back end of most planes.

Most other plane parts have very low mass relative to the engines, causing CoM to be so far back that it becomes a problem to have the CoL behind the CoM (for stability). This is further compounded by the fact that the new plane parts (body sections, cockpits) have built-in lift. Putting a heavy nosecone at the nose of the plane reduces the problem.

[DoomtrainInc]

This sounds like a useful part for building planes but would be bad for rockets. It would be nice to have a tweakable option for some parts to allow us to change mass. Or maybe two separate parts. One lighter and one heavier.

[Northstar1989]

@OP IT is for precisely the reasons you described that I NEVER use the NCS adapter. Its mass is completely nuts. Not to mention that none of the adapters should be empty in the first place- they should all be capable of holding a moderate amount of fuel (adapters have slightly increased structural mass in real life compared to a cylindrical aerodynamic shell, but most are either hollow and *very* lightweight, or still contain some amount of fuel...)

Regards,

Northstar

[VR_Dev]

Booooooooo, it would have been so easy to change.

[Alias72]

Booooooooo, it would have been so easy to change.

It IS so easy to change. the cfg can be opened in notepad and is readily available in a subfolder of the gamedata/squad folder. thats how I fixed the radial decoupler bug, by adjusting a cfg in gamedata.

[VR_Dev]

It IS so easy to change. the cfg can be opened in notepad and is readily available in a subfolder of the gamedata/squad folder. thats how I fixed the radial decoupler bug, by adjusting a cfg in gamedata.

Thanks a lot for the advice dude, and I know, I'm well versed in .cfg tweaking. I like to share my crafts though.

[FleshJeb]

Note the higher impact resistance on the NCS. I actually wish they'd keep the weight and bump the impact to 80m/s. I use them for the ends of my seaplane floats. Trying to land a fully-loaded seaplane at <40m/s is tough.

[technicalfool]

Here's a little hack that you can do on a test copy of KSP. Firstly, you can define a new resource that for now we'll just call "Lead". In your KSP folder, you can open up GameData/Squad/Resources/ResourcesGeneric.cfg and edit it to add the definition like this:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Lead
density = 0.1
unitCost = 0.2
flowMode = NO_FLOW
transfer = NONE
isTweakable = true
}

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = LiquidFuel
density = 0.005
unitCost = 0.8
flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
...

Once that's done, the NCS adapter is found in GameData/Squad/Parts/Aero/noseConeAdapter and you'll be wanting to edit noseConeAdapter.cfg to look something like this:

PART
{
// this is a sample config file, for determining a good file format for defining part parameters
// comment line - ignored by cfg parser
// empty lines, or lines without a '=' sign are also ignored
// all other lines are split at the '=' sign, and the left operand is used to know what parameter we are setting
// diferent parameters require data in different formats (see docs), and each module has it's own parameters (again, see docs)
// each assignment must be in a single line. Lines without assignments will be ignored. (You CAN turn on word wrap, though)
// each keyword here relates to an existing variable in the assigned module. If the keyword isn't found, it is ignored.
// conversely, if a keyword is left unassigned (as in not in the file), it will be initialized with it's default value
// This is done automatically, so any public variable defined in the loaded module can be accessed this way (provided it's value can be parsed)


// --- general parameters ---
name = noseConeAdapter
module = Part
author = C. Jenkins, hacked by [your name here]

// --- asset parameters ---
mesh = model.mu
scale = 1.0


// --- node definitions ---
// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.555, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom01 = 0.0, -0.440, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1



// --- FX definitions ---


// --- editor parameters ---
TechRequired = advAerodynamics
entryCost = 6500
cost = 320
category = Structural
subcategory = 0
title = NCS Adapter
manufacturer = C7 Aerospace Division
description = The base of C7 Aerospace's Nose Cone system (NCS). Recently adapted with a new ballast facility. Warranty void if used as a garbage disposal device.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0
stackSymmetry = 2

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 0.05 //Hack to turn this part into a ballast piece.
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.1
minimum_drag = 0.1
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 20
maxTemp = 3400
fuelCrossFeed = True

//Hack to turn this part into a ballast piece.
RESOURCE
{
name = Lead
amount = 0
maxAmount = 20
}

// ----- DO NOT EDIT BELOW THIS POINT ------
}

And... that's about it. Start the game up, and if you've done everything right, the NCS adapter will now be 0.05 tons instead of 0.3, and you can adjust it right up to 2.05 tons with a tweakable "Lead" resource.

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[Mareczex333]

I think that's good that it's heavy.

Putting 2 engines at rear of craft will pull center of mass very much to the rear. Nosecone balance craft enough.

It is important to have center of mass at front of center of craft. If your craft will caught stall, then you will able to recover.

What would you do if the center of mass would be behind of center of craft? You would clip dump fuel tanks into cockpit to balance it.

That's my opinion

Edited December 16, 2014 by Mareczex333

[Crimson Sunrise]

That nosecone at that weight will be a major issue for payload SSTOs that use all their fuel to get to orbit. Once you're into Kerbin, your plane suddenly becomes top heavy and you have no control authority over it.