Anyone else want to like career mode but just can't?

[Fourjays]

When I first started playing KSP (circa 0.18/0.19) I had a spreadsheet for managing my own kind of career mode. I tracked my Kerbonauts, their missions, achievements and flight time. I had a table of "scientific data" I'd discovered with the four basic instruments available at various altitudes and positions on Kerbin, Mun and Minmus. I'd done a number of missions such as launching my own "Stayputnik", docking with a practice target, launching communication satellites, mapping satellites, tested my Munar lander in LKO (after watching "Spider" in "From the Earth to the Moon" admittedly ) and spent countless hours crafting and testing a Munar rover that could fit in the 1.25m KW fairing, before landing it on the Mun itself and driving several KMs to scout a potential landing site. I played the game like a career and approached the game kind of like NASA would - test it, investigate it and then do.

So since the first part of career came out, I've stubbornly stuck with career mode. From the wonky tree where probes and landing gear are horribly placed and the click-fest science grind, to the "test some random part at some impossible position" gobbledygook contracts and the budget constraints that basically sink a space program after two or three failures. I've tinkered with the custom career settings over and over trying to find a balance to make it challenging enough to be fun and yet not be a horrible grind. And I've still yet to land on anything past the Mun! Every release I've started a new career, tried to enjoy it and then get bored just before or after I land on the Mun.

With the release of 0.25, I spent some time finding a bunch of mods to start my career over ("it'll be fixed this time", I told myself, "these mods will add more fun!") yet I'm three missions in, already being told to go to the Mun, low on funds, still without landing gear and already bored.

Overall I think what I'm missing in career mode is the sense of accomplishment and fulfilment in doing things (even simple things like lander tests). The tech tree limits the parts in a really arbitrary way (although I have made some wacky rockets as a result) and science is just plain dull to collect. The contracts that should fix it by adding another dimension just turn the game into this huge rush out of Kerbin SOI, and the funds stop you from doing even the little things like testing parts because they'll just be a waste. And to top it off, powered flight increasingly seems like a mid to late game technology and probes/rovers are pretty much relegated to uselessness (seems odd given that they've done far more space exploration than their fleshy counterparts).

I'm sorely tempted to go back to sandbox and a spreadsheet, but I'm also wary as to how much "real" science I can do now that so many mods are geared towards the career mode. Not to mention the time spent tracking everything manually.

Anyone one else had the same problem with the career mode? Any recommendations on what I could try to give the career one more chance? Or is it time to admit defeat and ditch it for sandbox mode?

[UmbralRaptor]

I would lean towards an alternate tech tree and science mode. Or perhaps KSPI?

[Wanderfound]

Wait a few weeks. Fine Print integration, along with the new building tiers and completed biomes, will radically alter career mode.

Fine Print missions have enough diversity that you never need to leave LKO if you don't want to (but will also give you rover/satellite/station missions around any planet you're due to visit). OTOH, all the new biomes provide much more reason to get out there.

[lajoswinkler]

When you're already highly experienced with KSP and you've played Career for two times, you get tired of it and just want to build stuff in sandbox. It's normal.

[Parkaboy]

When you're already highly experienced with KSP and you've played Career for two times, you get tired of it and just want to build stuff in sandbox. It's normal.

Not for everybody. I've played career 6 or 7 times, and each time I enjoy it more. I've been even using the updates as excuses to start over. The last update gave more flexibility to the play style, and I could advance mostly by sending satellites to test parts in orbit; with enough sats I had a steady flow of cash (since contracts to test those parts in orbit kept popping up) and could focus in bigger missions. The secret, I guess, was picking the right contracts to match my view of the progression, instead of accepting everything.

There's a lot that can be improved, though, and Fine Print will be a huge step. Tech tree placements can be better, and we should have more stuff to do after the tree is completed, such as improving efficiency of already researched tech.

[Van Disaster]

Yes, considerably dislike how it's implemented. Currently attempting to integrate a bunch of mods so I can create a tree where I start with all current tech ( wings! large aircraft! batteries! how can you even consider space without having got this stuff already ) & have to work for future tech, like SABREs or colonisation structures, and at the end things like the KSPI tech. Thankfully people are working on this sort of thing too, but combining everything to make some sort of grand colonisation progression and still get it below the memory limits is being a struggle

[klgraham1013]

I was really looking forward to career mode when the game was merely a sandbox. I really enjoy tycoon games and was excited to build and manage my space program. The implementation has been...underwhelming, to say the least. It's fairly obvious that Squad need to hire an experienced tycoon developer, at least in an advisory capacity. The contracts do little to teach new players, in fact, create bad habits in their completion. The tech tree is notoriously broken, with aircraft landing gear and aircraft fuselage being in two separate branches of the tree. These are just two examples out of many. I could write an essay about it's problems, and would, if I thought it would amount to much. There's already been fine discussion and examples of what the tree should be, but we have yet to see any change. Maybe beta is the time for adjustment. I just fear the foundation may be the true problem.

[Tail_TL]

I'm totally in the same boat as you OP. Before they added all the contracts and funds in to the game I really liked playing in Career, what they've done with career is they just took the "Its your space program" thing/mindset. I've tried to get in to career mode but I just get bored. In fact, because they changed career mode so much I seriously stopped playing KSP all that often. I rarely play it, I just check the forums often.

And for those who are going to say "There's Science Sandbox mode" I just want to tell you that, it doesn't feel the same. If I play the Science Sandbox I feel like I'm in the minority, I feel like I'm cut off from the rest of the Players. (You may be wondering why do I care about that? Heck.. how should I know, I just do.) And Also it doesn't feel the same because I'm not playing the game I thought I was playing... I thought I was playing a game where I have alot of freedom for imagination and managing my own Space Program. Yes, I'm still making and flying rockets, but I'm no longer managing my own goals and objectives.. the game's horrible "Randomly" generated contracts are...

I've lost that spark to this game since the moment I found out that the devs wanted us to play THEIR space program.. They should've focused on improving the tech tree so it would've made sense (Improve it with the ideas people already suggested) And they should've made the solar system more fascinating and interesting so we'd actually care to explore it.

The game now I feel like I'm playing is just building rockets and launching off of big sphere's and flying to other big sphere's, with bad graphics. Sure it was awesome at first, but it quickly turned out unimpressive and uninteresting.

They should really make the planets feel HUGE and have the game's graphics overall better so it would feel breathtaking looking at your realistically looking space ship approaching to a massively realistic and breathtaking Planet. But Thats never going to happen since this game is running on UNITY.

[Esme]

I'm not a fan of career mode as it is at present but I am looking forward to seeing what the next iteration of it is like. I was greatly heartened by the fact that SQUAD allowed us the ability to play old-style (ie: just collecting science) rather than having to pay attention to the beancounters and do what look to me frankly ridiculous missions at times (please note - I don't mind that some are ridiculous. I do mind if I HAVE to do them to advance) once the career stuff kicked in. Between pure sandbox, science sandbox and career, looks to me that most folks should be perfectly able to play KSP their own way.

I also do not like the standard tech tree, and haven't found one yet that I'm entuirely happy with. For heavens sake, wheels should be available from the start, as should the ability to create unammned probes. However - KSP is -evidently - extremely moddable. So long as this remains the case, I can;t see me falling out of love with KSP. Despite still struggling with Munar landings, I've now landed a probe on Duna and done a Jool flyby. Ok, so I'm evidently nothing like as good at this game as many here, but then again, the sense of achievement I get when I finally manage to do something I;ve been struggling with is enormous.

One day, I WILL build a self-sustaining base on Duna. One day... :-)

[annallia]

When you're already highly experienced with KSP and you've played Career for two times, you get tired of it and just want to build stuff in sandbox. It's normal.

This is how I feel about it. I gave career mode another try recently (because when I had quit there was no funding in it) and still just couldn't get into it. So I found a new way to get to the mun... My standard design was more efficient, prettier (which says a lot considering how fugly most of my builds are) and just more fun to fly.

[LethalDose]

Oh, is time for another one of these threads?

Everyone has a different play-style, and some of those styles aren't compatible with career. Career presents challenges that some people don't think are fun.

But, If you dislike career, don't play it. You have sandbox. SQUAD has made it pretty clear they consider sandbox finished, though, so you have very little room to complain that nothing's changing or they're not working on it.

Sandbox-mode enthusiasts are not some persecuted or neglected portion of the fan-base, as these threads always seem to insinuate.

The game is also in heavy development. We can hope that a lot of science tree issues and balance will get taken care of prior to the final release (though my lack of faith in SQUAD is basically a matter of public record at this point).

Edited December 10, 2014 by LethalDose

[ProStasisX]

As someone who started playing the game over the black friday weekend - and started playing solely in Career mode - I have to say I love it.

Sandbox, when you start out, just is wayyy too overwhelming. I did all of the tutorials, which was kind of neat. I will say this though, the contracts do nothing to help teach you the game. The tutorials are not nearly complete enough - and I think that's what people are missing with the contracts - a bit more progression in the game. Hell, the game itself is overwhelming at first.

Now, I will say, I have experienced that progression myself and I've enjoyed it thusfar. I'm not even sure why (and remember, this is coming from someone new to the game) anyone is upset about wheels/fuselage. I don't use wheels yet, and the only need I see for them anytime soon is for a rover. As for the fuselage, yeah that won't be happening for awhile - I have too much to do as far as perfecting my rocket design to get to the Mun and back (I haven't even thought about other planets yet). I've been able to successfully get into Kerbin Orbit, transfer to Mun Orbit, Land on the mun with a lander, get back to Mun Orbit, redock with the command module, and transfer back to Kerbin orbit and land on Kerbin. And all of this, has been the most amazing experience in gaming, for me, in a very long time. Maybe there is a real value in space planes, and I'll find that out later, and then I'll probably look back and go "Damn, if I had this earlier, it would have been so much easier" but that's just not the case as the current system progresses for someone new to the game.

I can definitely see, if you learned the game in Sandbox, and learned how to make a great rocket with all parts available - but I've had a blast unlocking new parts that let me do more and make better, faster, more efficient rockets.

I will say, many of the "testing" contracts, I don't bother with anymore (I had to restart career three times, due to running out of funds because I forgot something silly and got my kerbals stranded on the Mun, lol). Most of the testing seems kinda silly. I do wish now, though, that there was a bit more progression in the game. Launch a probe around kerbal, launch a probe around the mun, land a probe on the mun, launch a kerbal into orbit, send a kerbal to the mun, land a kerbal on the mun, yadda yadda - those types of things. So I have started sort of doing my own missions (like buliding a space station around the Mun) but I realized I became a bit strapped for cash - so now I have to sort of try to implement a bit of the contracts with my own quests.

So sure - career is probably far from perfect - and I agree it could use some tweaking - but I think it's also meant for the new player (like myself) and THEN you move to sandbox when you're done with career - versus most people here, probably experienced it the other way around. Leading to that sense of underwhelming.

[LethalDose]

Also, if players are having trouble with funding, why not just play on an easier mode with more funding? I mean, SQUAD did add those difficulty sliders for a reason...

[lajoswinkler]

Not for everybody. I've played career 6 or 7 times, and each time I enjoy it more. I've been even using the updates as excuses to start over. The last update gave more flexibility to the play style, and I could advance mostly by sending satellites to test parts in orbit; with enough sats I had a steady flow of cash (since contracts to test those parts in orbit kept popping up) and could focus in bigger missions. The secret, I guess, was picking the right contracts to match my view of the progression, instead of accepting everything.

There's a lot that can be improved, though, and Fine Print will be a huge step. Tech tree placements can be better, and we should have more stuff to do after the tree is completed, such as improving efficiency of already researched tech.

I've solved the newest Career very quickly. I admit it is fun if one is new to KSP, but I've became too advanced. It's not bragging, it just happens after a while.

And grinding is something I don't like.

When things become different, and KSP matures, I'll give it another go. Until then, I'm building complex interplanetary ships in Sandbox.

This is how I feel about it. I gave career mode another try recently (because when I had quit there was no funding in it) and still just couldn't get into it. So I found a new way to get to the mun... My standard design was more efficient, prettier (which says a lot considering how fugly most of my builds are) and just more fun to fly.

That's all you should be concerned in KSP - having fun. Personally, the game/simulator relaxes me. That's why I play it.

[Norpo]

...When things become different, and KSP matures, I'll give it another go. Until then, I'm building complex interplanetary ships in Sandbox...

...That's all you should be concerned in KSP - having fun. Personally, the game/simulator relaxes me. That's why I play it.

(sentence breaks mine, see above post)

This sums my attitude towards it perfectly, career mode is a great idea (and it's probably going to be the main mode), but it's just not finished yet. At all. Heck, the entire GAME isn't finished yet. It needs more work, and i'll give it that time. For now, i'll just play sandbox until i'm happy with career mode.

Sailing among the stars, like those who came before us in the sea.

(note, if you search "space ship", it'll give you a spacecraft. I had to search "sea vessel in space" )

[Bekiekutmoar]

When you're already highly experienced with KSP and you've played Career for two times, you get tired of it and just want to build stuff in sandbox. It's normal.

Agreed. For me personally, Career seems illogical, too restrictive and too easy. But I think its a nice game-mode for beginners.

[Bekiekutmoar]

Oh, is time for another one of these threads?

Sandbox-mode enthusiasts are not some persecuted or neglected portion of the fan-base, as these threads always seem to insinuate.

I see no 'Sandboxers' (in)directly complaining about neglection or percecution in this thread. It is a little illogical to firmy split the KSP-community in Career-enthusiasts and Sandbox-enthusiasts, as both modes are basically 99% the same.

[Boris_T_Roach]

I like career mode

Its a fun challenge for us experienced KSP'ers because it does limit what can be built, forcing you to come up with new ways of using the same old parts.

Take my career mode Jool probes..... no 3 meter docking thingy, so none of that sending up a probe carrier and then docking a bog standard nuclear drive section to it.

Nope its all got to go up as one unit, 3 x32 fuel tanks, with 3 nervas to power it.... radial clamps for the probes, and all the fun of getting 120 tons in LKO without mainsails and orange fuel tanks....

Currently I'm running career in toughest mode (with quicksave).... and Jeb has made it to the mun and back using far less than my earliest KSP 0.12 ever did..... damn that locked tech tree.

But he has to do it again since he forgot to plant a flag

Boris

Still enjoy messing about in the Sandbox though

[Xavven]

I agree with the OP. I joined right when career mode was science-only to unlock the tech tree, and that was my favorite experience in the game to date. The funds and contracts system just isn't there yet, especially with the unbalanced funds-to-science conversion in the admin building, but that's an entirely different, and dead, horse.

That said, I'm optimistic that .90 is the turning point. Fine Print + new biomes on all planets will bring back that sense of purpose and exploration-- I am convinced. For example, taking a temperature reading and then blasting off for home feels like a clickfest, but ironically the survey contract idea where you are taking temperatures at 5 different sites feels like you're truly painting a picture of that planet's climate despite the fact that it sounds like just more grindy clicking. I'm weird...

The tech tree really does need some work, though. It pains me to pay 160 science points for extendable ladders, and 300 science points plus a lot of prerequisites to get a cubic octagonal strut, when the Modular Girder Segment is available at the start of the game. I'd suggest moving those obvious parts to the beginning of the tree and making rocket engines and such way more expensive science-points-wise and additional steps down the tech tree.

To your point about probes being useless, I think that can be fixed by adding a regolith-sampling part. We should have camera and telescope parts for probes and space telescopes, and maybe a dust counter since that's been in the news recently.

I'd also really love to see a girder that is meant to sit vertically for the purpose of putting a little bit of extra space between radially attached tanks that you don't intend to separate with a radial decoupler. Kind of like the Small Hardpoint (which by the way is another 300 science unlock. GEEZE!) but that looks and feels more like the TT-70 Radial Decoupler without the decoupling business.

Hm, I didn't mean for this to be a suggestions post, but ah well, I'm clicking the submit button anyway.

[rodion]

for months and months after career was first introduced i was totally unenamored with it. i just wanted to build huge, cool things and go everywhere right away, like i had been in the salad days of sandbox since 0.18, and then everything felt slow and frustrating. eventually i warmed to the challenge of doing more with less, and that's when it started to open up for me. in the end game i can still do the jool conquerors and moho returners just like old times, but there's an equal charm in getting those mun samples back intact before you've unlocked landing gear. i agree completely that the balance and variety in career is extremely half-baked, but hey, watch this space - 0.90 is coming (CHOO CHOO), Fine Print integration is coming, DMagic Orbital Science is a huge improvement to career and it's already here. KSP is WIP.

[SlinkyBlue]

I find the career mode to be entirely too focused around arbitrary numbers (funds, reputation, etc) that really impede my ability (or desire) to be creative.

I love KSP. Or, specifically, loved it until it took this direction.

The day that the devs announced they are no longer going to implement their Resource tree was the day I really lost interest.

The real problem with career mode is it sort of guides people through it. After you've played Sandbox for years and then switched to career, it basically feels like "Why the hell should I care about these numbers." I find myself promptly quitting and playing something else.

[peachoftree]

My beef with career mode is that once your finished the tech tree the game turns into sandbox mode, even with contracts. I invariably have several millions worth of in the bank just for the things I would normally have to do to complete the tech tree. Why bother with all that when you can do whatever you want right away with sandbox.

[Tail_TL]

I like career mode

Its a fun challenge for us experienced KSP'ers because it does limit what can be built, forcing you to come up with new ways of using the same old parts.

Funny how its "Challenging" for you "Experienced" KSP'ers, and for me (The none experienced) its just a slowed downed Sandbox Mode, with some grinding and thats all. Oh and do you mean that first 15 minute limit on what you can build? After the first few minutes you'll be playing just another Sandbox save.

Although, career did do something good... It made a reason to have space stations... So you can abuse and grind the contracts, earn money... Then keep going again...

[Higgs]

i want to like career mode, and i do with some reservations about it. I want substance and story to my "campaigns" and what career mode gives me now, with the contracts is pure gibberish. Oh sure, it has something that LOOKS like a story, but really isnt. It is my sincerest HOPE that .90 revamps that. Otherwise, I will stay where I started: in my sand box with my shovel and pale pretending to be Godzilla.

image is owned by Bill Watterson and Andrews McMeel Publishing.

[Tail_TL]

I find the career mode to be entirely too focused around arbitrary numbers (funds, reputation, etc) that really impede my ability (or desire) to be creative.

I love KSP. Or, specifically, loved it until it took this direction.

The day that the devs announced they are no longer going to implement their Resource tree was the day I really lost interest.

The real problem with career mode is it sort of guides people through it. After you've played Sandbox for years and then switched to career, it basically feels like "Why the hell should I care about these numbers." I find myself promptly quitting and playing something else.

Yeah its a bit sad, really. A semi-famous Youtuber I watched (and actually he was the reason I found out about KSP) no longer posts KSP, I've heard that the reason was because he said he didn't like the direction KSP is going.. I don't have any proof since I heard it in the comments somewhere, so it might just be straight up lies. But he did stop posting KSP for months. 1 or so year ago I remember he was posting KSP very frequently. But now I have completely stopped watching him since I very dislike him. Either He has changed or I have... And that youtuber is KurtJmac.