[1.2.2] Realistic Progression Zero (RP-0) - Lightweight RealismOverhaul career v0.53 June 12

[Spid]

Hello, I'm trying to start a 0.90 Realism Overhaul career with RP-0 but I'm having some troubles. All the dependencies and a good deal of recommended mods are installed and working as intended (a few minor bugs aside) but RP-0 is refusing to function. First I tried to istall it via the CKAN command line but this

800 [1] ERROR CKAN.RelationshipResolver (null) - Dependency on SXT found, but nothing provides it.

Module SXT required, but not listed in index, or not available for your version of KSP

is all I get. (SXT is installed)

Adding --no-recommend doesn't work either.

I then attempted a manual install but the RP-0 tree doesn't seem to be selectable via TechManager, and all the available tree have the usual manned parts.

Can someone help me? What am I doing wrong?

It's a fresh installation in 64bit Ubuntu KSP.

[NathanKell]

Kitspace: the interstage base has three nodes. Also, RO has been adding a third node to the tall fairing base.

I don't really understand why you're making a connection between TWR and payload mass...you can have large payload and high twr, or small payload and low TWR. Care to explain?

(And yes, there's a big difference between 60kg and 1.5kg, but the payload for the LV shown is 60kg, I was saying it was heavier than the real life Vanguard payload.)

The only time I have those insane TWRs is the boost motor for sounding rockets, to get up to 200m/s in less than a second.

Spid: You might start by checking this thread's title. Do you see a .90 there?

[Kitspace]

NathanKell:

Has been adding a third node?

I am currently looking at my tall fairing base and it has only two nodes or at least it appears to have two nodes.

Weird. What could possibly be wrong?

Also I have installed the stock extension and the stock parts revamp and more than half of those appear as unsupported or do not have the flag but in fact have wrong scale or something. What did I do wrong here? Does it depend on the version of the game or the Overhaul or the Progression or even the part packs?

Regarding payloads the point is that a rocket can launch a variety of different payloads and if acceleration is already too high it is difficult to control the rocket while the payload is less than maximum especially if the fuel is underloaded also.

[NathanKell]

Yes, last few RO releases had a change by AlmightyR that added a third node. However, it does not rescale with the rest of the nodes, so you may not see it for large fairing bases.

Yes, most of the SXT parts are unsupported at this time. That will change over time, obviosuly. Nonetheles, those that are supported are needed for RP-0.

Payload makes up such a small fraction of rocket mass that going from 0 payload to max payload should not affect first stage TWR, and will probably not significantly affect upper stage TWR unless it's a Centaur or something (or the final upper stage is tiny).

[Bender222]

the contracts make a huge difference. For my first mission I flew north since I wasnt going to orbit anyway and there is a relay station in virginia. On my second mission I put a dontstayputnik in orbit with four communotrons like sputnik. (I added a thermometer and a barometer to the outside of it too. i took the typical east route and since i hadn't gotten the water biomes yet, I was able to grab them on the way up. In orbit, I completed a ton of contracts and just warped around and got more science from biomes since it was free. I ended up with almost 100 science when I got back to the space center.

[Kitspace]

How small should it be to see the node and be able to attach something to it? Mine was a metre and a half yesterday and I had absolutely no clue that it was there.

Got it with the stock extension. Actually I missed the line in the first post saying that only some of the engines are supported currently because in the Overhaul thread it is marked as supported and adding new parts.

But how much of the stock revamp parts should be supported?

It looks like the stock parts that it replaces are supported obviously but the ones that it adds on top are not. Does it depend on the career mod?

I have it installed so if they are supposed to be supported something is wrong here

Payload makes up a very small fraction of the rocket mass with the full fuel tanks but empty tanks tend to be too light

Centaur? How is it different from anything else?

Edited December 22, 2014 by Kitspace

[Captain_Party]

Nathan, can I have the craft file to your favored GEO launcher and your Thor-Able?

Thanks, CP

[griffin247]

not sure what i is doing wrong but i dont get the option to use RP 0 in the tech manager or the other thing needed to run it. any ideas please.

also it would not work on 25 either.

Edited December 22, 2014 by griffin247

[Bender222]

You select Community tech tree. Now for a question from me, I have decided on placing a geostationary comsat just for the experience because I understand that it is to necessary to spend the resources to do so. I am unclear on the best maneuvers to do so. For example would it be best to launch to a LEO parking orbit then change inclination and then hohmann transfer and circularize. Or, is there a better, more efficient way to do this? Cant you combine launch and inclination change so that your parking orbit is already equatorial so you just hohmann?(How?) What about skipping the transfer orbit and going straight for the Hohmann with the inclination change mixed in so all you have to do is circularize? at GEO?

[NathanKell]

Bender222: https://github.com/NathanKell/RealSolarSystem/wiki/Equatorial-Orbits-from-Non-Equatorial-Launch-Sites

Captain Party: https://www.dropbox.com/s/77jblpenzofjgml/RP0craft1.zip?dl=1

[Bender222]

I think you should enable ground level experiments and eva reports at the north and south poles.

[NathanKell]

Alas this is not Amundsen Pole Program.

(Also, we do it by setting the landed/splashed multipliers to zero, that means landed/splashed anywhere on Earth...)

[Bender222]

the "science Alert" mod is very useful, especially for the situation reports and other science experiments that are 100% antenna. I find that you can hit 3-4 different biomes on the way up whereas before I would have only guessed 1 or 2. You can also use it to initiate a science experiment so that you can transmit it the next time you get a connection.but it has an issue with viewing the science archive though.

[BevoLJ]

I am having trouble figuring out how to make the 70k to unlock the launch pad for more mass + the cost of unlocking the FASA juno/explorer stuff with just sounding rockets missions. I made a derpy rocket that had like no mass using the procedural tanks that only cost like 700 funds and completed the orbit mission which got me 50k funds, but that to me seemed really cheety and unrealistic. So I'd like to avoid doing that if at all possible. I'd much rather do the explorer mission using FASA rather than procedural tanks.

I'm wondering if there is something I am missing that I can do to afford to unlock the larger mass launch pad w/o doing the orbit mission first.

Edit: I don't know if it is possible to change the max on the t1 launch pad but it might be kinda cool to bump that up so that the juno is possible but the MR1 isn't. Unless ofcourse there is a way to make enough to unlock that using sounding mission and I'm just a total derp and missed it. Which is a very likely possibility.

nm, It is very possible. I'm a derp.

Edited December 24, 2014 by BevoLJ

[Bender222]

I am having trouble figuring out how to make the 70k to unlock the launch pad for more mass + the cost of unlocking the FASA juno/explorer stuff with just sounding rockets missions. I made a derpy rocket that had like no mass using the procedural tanks that only cost like 700 funds and completed the orbit mission which got me 50k funds, but that to me seemed really cheety and unrealistic. So I'd like to avoid doing that if at all possible. I'd much rather do the explorer mission using FASA rather than procedural tanks.

I'm wondering if there is something I am missing that I can do to afford to unlock the larger mass launch pad w/o doing the orbit mission first.

Edit: I don't know if it is possible to change the max on the t1 launch pad but it might be kinda cool to bump that up so that the juno is possible but the MR1 isn't. Unless ofcourse there is a way to make enough to unlock that using sounding mission and I'm just a total derp and missed it. Which is a very likely possibility.

Do you not have the rp-0 contracts or is the return crewed orbit the first and only contract you see? I just started a fresh career and it wasn't until my second mission that I went orbital and my third before I had a crew capsule. I find that I use probes a majority of the time to accomplish missions in Leo. I used a crew capsule three times (1 of them crashed and killed jeb because I was alt-tabbed typing this and didn't arm the parachute). once in a standard eastern ascent and then another in a northern ascent so that I can maximize my science gain by getting the poles. There are plenty of non orbit contracts you can do before orbit contracts. I have not updated the pad yet and I have done almost everything inside the Earth Sphere of influence except Geo and it has been fine so far. I currently have $300,000 and I have unlocked every tier that costs less then 50 science. I think you might be trying to accomplish too much too soon.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Bender222

[BevoLJ]

I figured out what I did wrong. I think I bought a part I likely didn't need to be buying. I shouldn't have purchased the mystery goo and other stuff I didn't need.

Do you not have the rp-0 contracts or is the return crewed orbit the first and only contract you see? I just started a fresh career and it wasn't until my second mission that I went orbital and my third before I had a crew capsule. I find that I use probes a majority of the time to accomplish missions in Leo. I used a crew capsule three times (1 of them crashed and killed jeb because I was alt-tabbed typing this and didn't arm the parachute). once in a standard eastern ascent and then another in a northern ascent so that I can maximize my science gain by getting the poles. There are plenty of non orbit contracts you can do before orbit contracts. I have not updated the pad yet and I have done almost everything inside the Earth Sphere of influence except Geo and it has been fine so far. I currently have $300,000 and I have unlocked every tier that costs less then 50 science. I think you might be trying to accomplish too much too soon.

I'm thinking you and I are playing on a very different rp-0. Or maybe you have extra part mods installed? The guys working on rp-0 have done an amazing job rebalancing everything so that sounding rockets are your first set of missions. I don't think crewed missions are supposed to be possible until much later. The missions are there, but I don't see how you got the parts to do crewed missions by mission 3, or the funds to unlock the tier 2 launching pad. It takes 70k funds to unlock the launching pad for the mass of Juno and 75 science to unlock crew capsules. That just seems like a lot of funds for one mission (and there is no way two sounding missions gives 70k, lol) and a lot of science from two missions. Although if you did get into a polar orbit on mission two, I suppose with the probe reports of all biomes could get you that much science. Edited December 24, 2014 by BevoLJ

[NathanKell]

While building upgrade costs are moddable, upgrade-based locks and limits are hardcoded, because...it was really faster to write "return 18" rather than "return padLimit1" or something. The only ways around this of which I am aware are prohibited by the addon rules...

As of yet we haven't changed building upgrade costs; that this is compiled for .90 at all is just so people can try it out (and I can get tmikesecrist off my back ).

Also, people have reported issues with TextureReplacer making contracts disappear. If you have too few contracts, uninstall TR.

Indeed you should not be attempting crewed spaceflight until you have *all* the first five nodes unlocked. You can do suborbitals with only three (start, basic orbital, reentry) but for orbital flight you need RCS and you need heavier LVs.

[BevoLJ]

Thanks Nathan!

Oh, if you don't mind a quick question... I was digging around the Git issues and saw you plan on adding KCT. This is the only "In Progress" mod I haven't added, although I see he is on a RC2 for .9 already. Maybe it can be something done in there? Sounds like he has some amazing new plans in a future update (very different than what he has in RC2 as RC2 looks mostly like a compatibility update for .9)

Would you suggest I try out the KCT RC2 with your Atlas-Able release or wait? This is just for me playing for fun so bugs and instability aren't an issue. Won't be starting my LP until next year.

Edited December 24, 2014 by BevoLJ

[Ziff]

FYI: Ven's Stock Revamp has been on CKAN for a couple of days now. Might want to update the main post.

[Bender222]

I figured out what I did wrong. I think I bought a part I likely didn't need to be buying. I shouldn't have purchased the mystery goo and other stuff I didn't need.

I'm thinking you and I are playing on a very different rp-0. Or maybe you have extra part mods installed? The guys working on rp-0 have done an amazing job rebalancing everything so that sounding rockets are your first set of missions. I don't think crewed missions are supposed to be possible until much later. The missions are there, but I don't see how you got the parts to do crewed missions by mission 3, or the funds to unlock the tier 2 launching pad. It takes 70k funds to unlock the launching pad for the mass of Juno and 75 science to unlock crew capsules. That just seems like a lot of funds for one mission (and there is no way two sounding missions gives 70k, lol) and a lot of science from two missions. Although if you did get into a polar orbit on mission two, I suppose with the probe reports of all biomes could get you that much science.

I am not using any part mods at all other than the engines from sxt and ven's revamp, to top it off im using remotetech too. It is quite possible and easy to get the crew capsule by the third mission. As I have done it twice. This is with default normal diffaculty career settings.

Grab all the contracts you can at the start. On the first mission with wac corporal and an srb first stage (antenna is needed) ascend north sub orbitally with a thermometer and a barometer and hit every single biome on the way up (use science alert mod to help you catch every one)(should be atleast 4) Since you dont have a heatshield it wont survive re-entry but dont just leave because you may get upper atmosphere over highlands biome before you burn up. After that mission, between the contracts and the science from the biomes you should easily have enough science for the first unlock.

With the new parts you can build A rocket capable of reaching orbit with a small probe with several antenae and a battery with enough power to last a long time. Also add a thermometer and barometer so you can get several other biomes on the way up. Grab any new contracts and ascend east utilizing the gravity turn. Try to place the probe in an orbit with a periapsis above 200. The barometer is useless in space but you can still transmit situation reports and temp readings (and serve as a relay if required in the future) so, warp around till you have a connection And try to grab any biomes you can. Then exit to space center.

With the transmissions and contracts you've completed you can now unlock the capsule. Note that since the rcs thrusters arent known yet the biult in rcs does not work so you may have to get creative if you make any mistakes.

After the payout from that you now have a large amount of money, With 1.25m heatshields (which were unlocked with the capsule) you can now make a few sub orbital probes with 3 goo canisters that can survive re-entry( each can get 3 biomes (I do not think they are the same as the thermometer, situation report, and barometer as I think flying in LEO no matter where you go is all one big biome. You can then unlock science jr (only one fits on a 1.25m heatshield) and do the same. Ive made it this far without worrying about upgrading the launchpad at all and everything is fine. Needless to say if I did I would have the money to do so. I am aiming to put a geostationary relay up (not necessary but I have the money and I want the challenge/experience),5 but I am waiting on hydrolox and solar panels/ dtms antenna. from there I am looking at the rescue contract and then the moon stuff. If you are ever short a few science for an important unlock you can just go to the tracking station and fly your second mission which should still have plenty of power, just warp around till you hit a biome and get your free science with the probe report or thermometer.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Bender222

[BevoLJ]

How did you launch the Juno in your second mission w/o upgrading the launch pad? The mass of Juno is like 30 and the launch pad can only handle 18.

Like I said in my very first post here "I made a derpy rocket that had like no mass using the procedural tanks that only cost like 700 funds and completed the orbit mission which got me 50k funds, but that to me seemed really cheety and unrealistic. So I'd like to avoid doing that if at all possible."

Anyway, I did restart any only using sounding mission was able to afford to upgrade the pad for Juno, so long as I didn't spend funds unlocking parts I didn't need for the explorer mission.

Edited December 24, 2014 by BevoLJ

[NathanKell]

BevoLJ: I used KCT on .25 and hacked up some configs for it. Now that it's up on .90 I'll add the configs to the RP-0 repo.

My basic intent is that at ~.85bp (what one gets at the start) it should take something like three months to build and roll out a Thor-Delta (at ~2000 funds), and it should take approximately 3-5 years (!) to research the first node, with R&D upgrades making later nodes research faster. For now I suggest tweaking the settings to support that.

magico13 has been utterly amazing about adding stuff we request, and so there's lots of flexibility now to change time calculations and upgrade costs. I am inclined to support a much more linear function for upgrade point costs (something like maybe 10-20 million * (N^1.1) per build point where N = current number of build points), and in the latest build of KCT we can just write that function! However, I would love to hear feedback about what feels like a reasonable cost per upgrade point...

Ziff: Fixed.

Bender222: Ah, for suborbital Mercury that is barely possible--very well done and my hearty congratulations! However, any kind of orbital flight without Stability is only possible right now because thermal issues aren't modeled--bad things would happen if you kept the upper stage (with the AJ10 with its built in RCS) attached to the pod in orbit, the only way one could reorient for retrofire without Stability. (And even then you'd have to use solids for deorbit kick, unless you're playing without Engine Ignitor...)

BevoLJ: Vanguard massed less than 10 tons, and it was planned to be the world's first satellite launch vehicle (and launched the oldest satellite still in orbit today).

[Bender222]

Any rocket made with procedural parts with the performance of juno is going to cost atleast 7000. All kerolox/hydrolox fuel need to be cryogenic and storable propellants like for the aj10 are pressure fed and need to be set to service moduIe.

When I launched I would stop my launch burn with a periapses already at ~80 km so I did not need to position a de-orbit burn , all I needed to do was tumble and reorient so that descent mode could take over. I used a little bit of thrust at the end of my launch burn to make my capsule tumble from prograde to retrograde and then flashed the thrust to reorient myself. When I do this my tumble would stop and I would seperate. Then after seperation, I was close enough to where the retrograde would be when I hit 80km that descent mode could easily orient me correctly for a smooth slow descent and recovery. note that I do not use engine ignitor but I believe aj10 has 2 or 3 restarts. I only had to do that a few times though as I had enough science to unlock proper rcs so I didnt need to work so hard. Also the Stayputnik probe core does not have a biult in 200k omni range antenna for remote tech liek the other probes, or is it just the sounding rocket?

Edited December 24, 2014 by Bender222

[NathanKell]

What costs so much in Proc Parts? The tank shouldn't cost all that much...

Saying "the AJ10 had 2 or 3 restarts" is like saying "the Toyota Camry has 158 horsepower". There have been dozens of AJ10 variants, from the first US hypergolic engine (the one we model in RP-0, as used in Vangaurd) through Apollo SPS, Delta II, and Shuttle OME. The first restartable AJ10 was the -118E on Delta E; it also had a nozzle extension and (thus) a higher specific impulse. If you want a restartable upper stage you need to use the S1.5400 (aka 11D33) which comes in Mature Orbital Rocketry, or the FASA Agena B/D (comes in, um, flight control?).

Stayputnik should have a built-in antenna...

[Bender222]

maybe its not proc parts, I've just noticed similar costs when I design a craft for a specific task, I have been using procedural tanks exclusively now. As far as restarts I was referring to the one modeled in Ksp with the engine igniter mod. I tried to use the stayputnik core for one of my science flights without a reflection like the sounding rocket core because it kinda looked better but it would shut the engines off right as I left the pad. at the the moment the highest Isp vacuum engine is the block e ruskin on with the toroidal tankbutt. I find its possible to load up as muh as 4800 m/s of fuel and a capsule or equivalent weight payload and keep ~.7 Twr. Btw My career start kinda evolved from spending several days tryng to advance through career mode without the the rp-o contracts (texture replacer-...?) and once I figured it out and they were restored I restarted and there was a flood of science because I was doing what I had previously earned.